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crockett

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#1

Bad news for you anti gun regulation types..

04-12-2013, 11:29 AM

We always hear where the laws failed when it comes to these mass shootings, but never where the laws kept people safe.

Well seems Colorado's universal background check that was put in place after the mass shooting there last year has been working.

They have already stopped 2,500 people that had violent felonies from just going to a gun store and buying a gun. Added bonus is they also arrested lots of morons whom had warrants for their arrest and also applied for a gun permit.

No, it doesn't stop them from stealing a gun or buying one on the black market but I think it's pretty safe to say the percentage of people that would be able to do that is pretty low. Meaning simple regulation is working at keeping guns out of the hands of violent felons and still allowing law abiding people to own them.

While not fool proof, it's a positive test case that shows background checks do work and no the govt isn't tracking all the gun owners. The individual dealers keep the records much like a pornographer would keep his 2257 docs.

Will be hard for the NRA lobbyist to argue away that one..

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Last edited by crockett; 04-12-2013, 11:31 AM.

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#2

04-12-2013, 11:31 AM

haven't background checks always been in place? how is that 'bad news'?
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#3

04-12-2013, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by _Richard_

haven't background checks always been in place? how is that 'bad news'?

There were loopholes at gun shows. This is how they always got around the law and it's what the NRA lobbied to protect.. You could get around the BG check by buying at a gun show.

Last edited by crockett; 04-12-2013, 11:55 AM.

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#4

04-12-2013, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by crockett

There were loopholes at gun shows. This is how they always got around the law and it's what the NRA lobbied to protect.. You could get around the BG check by buying at a gun show.

While being a huge supporter of the 2nd amendment, I always thought this was pretty stupid.

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#5

04-12-2013, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by crockett

Well seems Colorado's universal background check that was put in place after the mass shooting there last year has been working.

Pity it took another high-profile mass shooting to get that done. The universal should have always been in place, the gun show loophole was assinine.

I'm a supporter of the individual's right to own a firearm, always have been, but I never understood why the US has for so long allowed people to buy guns so freely. You can't do it here in Canada, you have to go through a series of checks and balances, it makes no sense why the US is so resistant to change. You can still own a gun, you just have to have the proper accreditation, the proper training for it, etc.

In other words you have to EARN the right to own one (or ten, or an arsenal).

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#6

04-12-2013, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by crockett

We always hear where the laws failed when it comes to these mass shootings, but never where the laws kept people safe.

Well seems Colorado's universal background check that was put in place after the mass shooting there last year has been working.

They have already stopped 2,500 people that had violent felonies from just going to a gun store and buying a gun. Added bonus is they also arrested lots of morons whom had warrants for their arrest and also applied for a gun permit.

No, it doesn't stop them from stealing a gun or buying one on the black market but I think it's pretty safe to say the percentage of people that would be able to do that is pretty low. Meaning simple regulation is working at keeping guns out of the hands of violent felons and still allowing law abiding people to own them.

While not fool proof, it's a positive test case that shows background checks do work and no the govt isn't tracking all the gun owners. The individual dealers keep the records much like a pornographer would keep his 2257 docs.

Will be hard for the NRA lobbyist to argue away that one..

Video from MSBN http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-daily...15523#51415523

why the fuck would you use a bought gun to commit a crime?? and if your going to shoot people and kill yourself really doesnt matter where you buy the gun. there are other ways to mass kill that are way more messy.

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#7

04-13-2013, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

why the fuck would you use a bought gun to commit a crime?? and if your going to shoot people and kill yourself really doesnt matter where you buy the gun. there are other ways to mass kill that are way more messy.

Most gun related deaths are not part of mass shootings, and I'd suspect most deaths related to guns were not pre-planned.

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#8

04-13-2013, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by crockett

Most gun related deaths are not part of mass shootings, and I'd suspect most deaths related to guns were not pre-planned.

then how will laws stop it?

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#9

04-13-2013, 12:56 AM

if you have a sick depraved society that enjoys murder entertainment, you're going to have mass killings regardless of the weapon of choice. does that make sense ? probably not because you're brainwashed, sorry

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#10

04-13-2013, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

then how will laws stop it?

Keeps guns out of the hands of people that have already shown they are violent for starters..

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#11

04-13-2013, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by crockett

Keeps guns out of the hands of people that have already shown they are violent for starters..

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#12

04-13-2013, 01:46 AM

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#13

04-13-2013, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

then how will laws stop it?

This is just a thought, but if you have someone who has been convicted of a violent crime I think the odds that they will commit another violent crime are higher than someone who never has committed a violent crime. If you allow those people to legally buy a gun they now have a very good tool to use when they commit that crime.

It is kind of a preventative maintenance attitude.
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#14

04-13-2013, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by kane

This is just a thought, but if you have someone who has been convicted of a violent crime I think the odds that they will commit another violent crime are higher than someone who never has committed a violent crime. If you allow those people to legally buy a gun they now have a very good tool to use when they commit that crime.

It is kind of a preventative maintenance attitude.

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#15

04-13-2013, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by crockett

Most gun related deaths are not part of mass shootings, and I'd suspect most deaths related to guns were not pre-planned.

what about the sandy hook mess? that kid took his moms guns.... were they registered?
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#16

04-13-2013, 05:12 AM

Anyone against background checks -- especially members of Congress and the Senate -- you have to wonder...WHY? We all know if a politician is against it, they're most likely paid to think that way by the gun lobby(who are worse scum than the tobacco lobby), but why would the average citizen be against checking the background of ANY gun purchaser?
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#17

04-13-2013, 05:13 AM

Yeah, mass shoots can be stoped with laws, LOL

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#18

04-13-2013, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by Best-In-BC

Yeah, mass shoots can be stoped with laws, LOL

I'm pretty sure we can just skip the laws and pray really hard all at once.

Amen
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#19

04-13-2013, 06:13 AM

There is clearly only one solution to the insane gun problem the US has.
More guns.
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#20

04-13-2013, 06:35 AM

go back and look at the mass shooters. no real arrest records.

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#21

04-13-2013, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

go back and look at the mass shooters. no real arrest records.

if all guns crimes EXCEPT mass shooting were stopped... gun violence would almost be completely gone....
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#22

04-13-2013, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by Grapesoda

if all guns crimes EXCEPT mass shooting were stopped... gun violence would almost be completely gone....

They just don't talk about that too much.

Politicians on both "sides" use these tragedies for political gain.

Pres. Obama has been in office 5 years. The whole time, his own home town has been a literal killing field with gang violence: blacks being shot down on the streets every day.

Not a peep from him or Vice Pres. Biden.

But after Sandy Hook? Guns are suddenly all they talk about.

And the weird thing is...none of the stuff they are proposing would have even prevented that tragedy!

A universal background check? Really? How many murders are committed by criminals who went to a gun show, paid the fee to attend, and bought a gun there?
My guess is very, very few.

If they were serious they would ask Congress to repeal the 2nd amendment. That's a power that Congress has. Then guns could be legally removed from our society.

But they aren't serious.

In my opinion it's just more things to distract people from the amount of unemployment in the country and the huge national debt that is rising everyday.

If the federal govt. wants to disarm the citizens then the Congress should simply repeal the 2nd amendment. They have the power to make amendments and repeal them too. And they have historically done it when they wanted to (Prohibition, the repeal of prohibition, presidential term limits, etc.)

All these politicians on the news pretending that they are actually doing something are conning everybody.

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04-13-2013, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by Robbie

They just don't talk about that too much.

Politicians on both "sides" use these tragedies for political gain.

Pres. Obama has been in office 5 years. The whole time, his own home town has been a literal killing field with gang violence: blacks being shot down on the streets every day.

Not a peep from him or Vice Pres. Biden.

But after Sandy Hook? Guns are suddenly all they talk about.

And the weird thing is...none of the stuff they are proposing would have even prevented that tragedy!

A universal background check? Really? How many murders are committed by criminals who went to a gun show, paid the fee to attend, and bought a gun there?
My guess is very, very few.

If they were serious they would ask Congress to repeal the 2nd amendment. That's a power that Congress has. Then guns could be legally removed from our society.

But they aren't serious.

In my opinion it's just more things to distract people from the amount of unemployment in the country and the huge national debt that is rising everyday.

If the federal govt. wants to disarm the citizens then the Congress should simply repeal the 2nd amendment. They have the power to make amendments and repeal them too. And they have historically done it when they wanted to (Prohibition, the repeal of prohibition, presidential term limits, etc.)

All these politicians on the news pretending that they are actually doing something are conning everybody.

isn't this what is referred to as 'Band-Aid politics'? make a big stuff about nothing while actual issues are hidden...
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#24

04-13-2013, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by crockett

Well seems Colorado's universal background check that was put in place after the mass shooting there last year has been working.

They have already stopped 2,500 people that had violent felonies from just going to a gun store and buying a gun. Added bonus is they also arrested lots of morons whom had warrants for their arrest and also applied for a gun permit.

Maybe you should watch that video again and do a little research on the topic?

"Well seems Colorado's universal background check that was put in place after the mass shooting there last year has been working."

The law you are speaking about was passed in the Senate on March 15th, 2013. Yet here you sit claiming that this law is working because it has already stopped 2,500 people from buying guns last year when the law didn't even exist.

From The Denver Post:

"The universal background checks measure now moves to Gov. John Hickenlooper, who has indicated he will sign it into law. It would take affect July 1 (2013)."

In other words, not only did CO NOT put this law into effect LAST year as you've stated, but unless we skipped past April, May, & June.....The law isn't even in effect now. Not sure how that translates into "it's working."

So uh....I find this very easy to argue as your thread is really referring to the current laws that have been on the books for decades and clearly didn't stop these shootings from happening.

Last edited by AaronM; 04-13-2013, 08:11 AM.
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04-13-2013, 09:53 AM
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#26

04-13-2013, 10:06 AM

Background checks have been here in Va. I have a concealed weapon permit *shrugs* I think a harsh background check would be a good idea to be honest. If you're a punk ass criminal that likes to break the law then u shouldn't be able to own a gun, and if you do then it would be a black market gun and you would go to jail just on that! *shrugs*
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#27

04-13-2013, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Dirty F

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#28

04-13-2013, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Best-In-BC

Yeah, mass shoots can be stoped with laws, LOL

Totally agree, here is a list of the mass shootings in Australia since they changed their laws.....

1.
2.
3.
4.

oh wait, shit Good talk.

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#29

04-13-2013, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Grapesoda

if all guns crimes EXCEPT mass shooting were stopped... gun violence would almost be completely gone....

In 2012 there were roughly 88 people killed in the US due to mass shootings (there were 16 mass shootings). There were about 32,000 people killed by guns. That means the total deaths from mass shootings was equal to about 1 average day of gun deaths in this country.

As you say, if we wiped out everything but the mass shooting, gun deaths would be all but gone.

If more background checks and a little tighter regulation on buying guns can reduce the number of gun deaths by 20% that is about 6,500 per year which is pretty substantial.

I was just reading that at we are on pace to set a record. In 2015 we will likely have more people killed by guns in this country than car accidents. Pretty crazy when you think about it.
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#30

04-13-2013, 12:00 PM

you can make guns. ill leave it at that

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crockett

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#31

04-13-2013, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Grapesoda

what about the sandy hook mess? that kid took his moms guns.... were they registered?

Sandy hook and other shootings like it will never get stopped by any sort of laws.. They are the unpredictable or un stoppable type crimes. However even if 20 people are killed at one time in a mass shooting it's still nothing compared to the deaths that happen day after day to gun violence.

Be it random shootings or what ever. The media and govt latches on to these big mass shootings because they know it sensacionales it but the real problem is the hundreds of deaths that happen day after day one at a time.

Those are the crimes & deaths that better gun regulations will help stop, not the mass shooting sprees..

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#32

04-13-2013, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

you can make guns. ill leave it at that

Not the average person.

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#33

04-13-2013, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by kane

In 2012 there were roughly 88 people killed in the US due to mass shootings (there were 16 mass shootings). There were about 32,000 people killed by guns. That means the total deaths from mass shootings was equal to about 1 average day of gun deaths in this country.

As you say, if we wiped out everything but the mass shooting, gun deaths would be all but gone.

If more background checks and a little tighter regulation on buying guns can reduce the number of gun deaths by 20% that is about 6,500 per year which is pretty substantial.

I was just reading that at we are on pace to set a record. In 2015 we will likely have more people killed by guns in this country than car accidents. Pretty crazy when you think about it.

yes but you are placing the blame for human activity on an inanimate object... just for laughs what do you think might happen to gun violence numbers if urban inner city gang's were outlawed and shut down?
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#34

04-13-2013, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by crockett

Not the average person.

sure you can a double barrel shotgun you could make in less than a hour

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#35

04-13-2013, 01:48 PM

all guns start as legal. they dont just fall from the sky.
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#36

04-13-2013, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by crockett

Not the average person.

Legally speaking, the average American Citizen can make their own guns. No registration or serial number required as long as the weapon follows current gun laws. If you make an SBR or something that falls under the NFA then you have to follow the same procedures as buying from a dealer.

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#37

04-13-2013, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by AaronM

Legally speaking, the average American Citizen can make their own guns. No registration or serial number required as long as the weapon follows current gun laws. If you make an SBR or something that falls under the NFA then you have to follow the same procedures as buying from a dealer.

I was not meaning that they couldn't do it's legally. I was meaning the average person isn't capable of doing it.

Yes you can legally build a gun, but if I'm not mistaken you can never legally sell it. Hell there was a guy that made a AK 47 out of an old shovel. It worked, but wasn't best AK in the world, but still an AK. The thing is, is that he used a shit load of metal working tools to do it and had a lot of expertise. Something the average person doesn't have.

Last edited by crockett; 04-13-2013, 02:37 PM.

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#38

04-13-2013, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by crockett

I was not meaning that they couldn't do it's legally. I was meaning the average person isn't capable of doing it.

Yes you can legally build a gun, but if I'm not mistaken you can never legally sell it. Hell there was a guy that made a AK 47 out of an old shovel. It worked, but wasn't best AK in the world, but still an AK. The thing is, is that he used a shit load of metal working tools to do it and had a lot of expertise. Something the average person doesn't have.

But the average person does have access to everything needed to make a gun. It's gonna be ugly and inaccurate but it's not difficult. As brassmonkey said, you can make a shotgun very quickly.

Also, that shit shovel AK you're referring to is way more than you need to build an AR-15.

Buy an 80% complete lower, jigs, and a few cheap tools and have fun.

http://www.elitetacticalweapons.com/80-receivers-jigs/

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#39

04-13-2013, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Grapesoda

yes but you are placing the blame for human activity on an inanimate object... just for laughs what do you think might happen to gun violence numbers if urban inner city gang's were outlawed and shut down?

I'm not sure how you get that from my post. I am simply pointing out that there are a ton of non mass shooting related gun deaths in this country. I happen to think a little stricter laws as far as background checking goes might help reduce those to some degree.

The gun doesn't act on its own, but there are clearly a lot of people out there with guns who likely aren't fit to own them. I feel that coming up with a process to weed some of these people out isn't such a terrible thing.
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#40

04-13-2013, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by AaronM

But the average person does have access to everything needed to make a gun. It's gonna be ugly and inaccurate but it's not difficult. As brassmonkey said, you can make a shotgun very quickly.

Also, that shit shovel AK you're referring to is way more than you need to build an AR-15.

Buy an 80% complete lower, jigs, and a few cheap tools and have fun.

http://www.elitetacticalweapons.com/80-receivers-jigs/

The point I was making is the "Percentage" of people that could do it is very low. The fact is the law keeps guns out of the hands of a lot of people that shouldn't have them. Will a small percentage of people pursue alternate ways to get their hands on a gun? Yea probably, but no law is going to stop very determined people from committing a crime.

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#41

04-13-2013, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by crockett

The point I was making is the "Percentage" of people that could do it is very low. The fact is the law keeps guns out of the hands of a lot of people that shouldn't have them. Will a small percentage of people pursue alternate ways to get their hands on a gun? Yea probably, but no law is going to stop very determined people from committing a crime.

I understand the point you are trying to make but I believe it to be wrong.

As far as law vs. crime, I completely agree.
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#42

04-13-2013, 04:03 PM

Zip gun

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#43

04-13-2013, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by kane

I

The gun doesn't act on its own, but there are clearly a lot of people out there with guns who likely aren't fit to own them. I feel that coming up with a process to weed some of these people out isn't such a terrible thing.

the issue is political, not about guns
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#44

04-13-2013, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Grapesoda

the issue is political, not about guns

I don't follow.
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#45

04-13-2013, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Grapesoda

the issue is political, not about guns

The issue is about taking responsibility. It's made into a political issue because those that want unrestricted rights to firearms fail to accept that as a society we have the "responsibility" to do everything we can to keep those guns out of the hands of criminals.

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#46

04-13-2013, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Grapesoda

the issue is political, not about guns

This is an issue about mental health and how millions of people live on the edge of society while everyone hopes they don't do something stupid.

Originally posted by crockett

The issue is about taking responsibility. It's made into a political issue because those that want unrestricted rights to firearms fail to accept that as a society we have the "responsibility" to do everything we can to keep those guns out of the hands of criminals.

We have a complete and total lack of responsibility. If you are a responsible firearm owner, great. But I bet you 80% of us aren't.

The mother of the shooter in the Sandy Hook shooting is a perfect example. She thought she was a responsible firearm owner. But she knew her child had issues - he had seen a head shrink in high school, had multiple forms of autism, was unemployed, depressed, and spent most of his time in a dark basement playing violent video games surrounded by posters of military hardware. Days before the shooting she told a friend she was "loosing him".

How many kids have found loaded firearms in the past week and shot and killed someone by accident? How the fuck does anyone show off a loaded handgun to a friend when there is a child in the house?

Years ago when I was a kid my older cousin brought in a loaded shotgun he recently purchased into the house to show off. When my father discovered it was loaded he kicked him out the house.

This is the problem - a complete lack of responsibility.

Herschel Savage
Brooklyn, NY
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brassmonkey

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#47

04-13-2013, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Rochard

This is an issue about mental health and how millions of people live on the edge of society while everyone hopes they don't do something stupid.

We have a complete and total lack of responsibility. If you are a responsible firearm owner, great. But I bet you 80% of us aren't.

The mother of the shooter in the Sandy Hook shooting is a perfect example. She thought she was a responsible firearm owner. But she knew her child had issues - he had seen a head shrink in high school, had multiple forms of autism, was unemployed, depressed, and spent most of his time in a dark basement playing violent video games surrounded by posters of military hardware. Days before the shooting she told a friend she was "loosing him".

How many kids have found loaded firearms in the past week and shot and killed someone by accident? How the fuck does anyone show off a loaded handgun to a friend when there is a child in the house?

Years ago when I was a kid my older cousin brought in a loaded shotgun he recently purchased into the house to show off. When my father discovered it was loaded he kicked him out the house.

This is the problem - a complete lack of responsibility.

bad relationship ,loss of a job, bullied etc does not = metal issues

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- Jesus Christ -

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#48

04-13-2013, 05:43 PM

You cannot use "psychiatry" as basis for gun control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...e_Soviet_Union

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BlackCrayon

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#49

04-13-2013, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by Grapesoda

yes but you are placing the blame for human activity on an inanimate object... just for laughs what do you think might happen to gun violence numbers if urban inner city gang's were outlawed and shut down?

the blame is on the access to the guns, not the guns themselves. laws are put in place to prevent those humans who are at higher risk to use them for violence. no one is saying that guns shoot people without someone pulling the trigger. that would just be stupid.

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BlackCrayon

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#50

04-13-2013, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by brassmonkey

bad relationship ,loss of a job, bullied etc does not = metal issues

how someone reacts to those situations can definitely be a sign of a mental issue that might have never really surfaced before. normal people don't just snap and kill.

you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..
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