Dombuyer's Guide to turning a grand into $3-$5k or more

Very cool thread. I just saw it now.

You guys should check out my new domain name trading site nicdo.com

Just saw that now...

It really makes me laugh at how many people can not see that the only thing that he did with this thread is up his own income. Dont get me wrong, he has helped a lot of people, me included with this, but in the long run, he will make more.

COMPETITION is a GOOD THING!

read the whole post and it was a pleasure to see such a good thread. Fantastic compared to the usual shit on here !

It's a long post but I'm going to read it all

I sure hope to

Cliff notes on my posts:

1. Buy low.

2. Sell high

hi

great post!!

I have:

Iwantsexpics.com
wickedtgp.com
rapbox.com
sexyideas.com

Form an experts point of view, are these any good on there own?? I have had offers for rapbox.

thanks
tony

just for the record. I'm not trying to sell them, just would like some info etc..

thanks
tony

Let's try to keep domains out of this thread otherwise it will get ruined.

ok cool, nevermind. worth a try though.

tony

Great thread... appreciated!

Curious... I see you're in Antigua... wondering if our paths ever crossed... I was there 2000-2002 doing the Sportsbook thing... living in Jolly Harbour & Dove Cove (near Lashings) and working in Redcliffe Quay... were you down there then? In those parts of the island?

Want to take Sportsbook.AG off my hands? Maybe flip it to one of the sportsbook guys still down there?

I sell for some of the highest prices for my friends.

most recently smut.com for more than 2-1/2 times what dombuyer offered.

If you have a choice domain - hollar.

Also, nobody mentions the tenses of the domains out there. most past tense and other variations of the main dictionary word are not very juicy.

We will look for all you domainiacs to jump on XDomains.com when we relaunch it.

evan @ xpays for anyone with a choice domain they want to go super retail on. leave the wholesale game to these guys.

<---super retail domain broker at your service. last homerun took less than 1 week to commence.

quick 6 or 7 for you and quick 5 for us

everyone is happy

ok, im confused... what nickname does Rick Schwartz go by nowadays?

josh kramlinger

too much work.

Great read DomBuyer

I sold analmature.com to slavik before and just wanted to know if I did a good deal. Now when I think about it I maybe sold it too cheap, but I needed the money at that time. How much is that domain worth?

Quite a generous post DB.

I've found some golden techniques as well that apparently the big players are either overlooking or don't have time for.

Like you I believe pennies add up and I don't mind picking up the "pennies" domains.

It surprises me how few people are actually playing the domain game. Everytime I pickup a nice domain I get puzzled how come no one else grabbed it or noticed it. I guess it all boils down to one's perspective just like looking at property investing in the real world. One guy will look at a fixer upper and keep driving. Another guy will stop and realize the quick profit that can be made with a small investment and then a flip.

I think enough domain tips knowledge has already been divulged in this thread. So I'll just add there are lots of nice domains you can make money on very easily. Plenty to go around for all and they will become more and more valuable as the Net continues its incredible growth.

If you guys have any domain names for sale, please list them at my new site nicdo.com. It needs listings.

Thank you!

LOL, ohhhh God here we go. Starting to get e-mails now with people offering to sell me domains.

im waiting till monday.

here is a good tip and probably the most obvious:

- when you start hearing something new, register it and its variations. i score many domains this way. example: wireless, drm, etc domains when we first heard about them. or i heard them say "pooling resources" on cnn 10 times in 2 hours so I checked it and walla nobody has poolingresources.com - long and arduous domain but i am happy to pluck it at registrar cost.

& hold your forward thinking domains.

A lot of the domain kings listed in this thread developed a big base of domain inventories the old fashioned way and so can you.

Now is a good time to sell big ticket domains imho and diversify with those profits, although the weather can change rapidly in the mountains.

now i am confused

DomainKing??

it was a satirical inside joke. perhaps too obscure but not really.

Sadly, I got it

You only got $125k for smut.com?

Seriously though, good job.

When you do score a gem of a domain with 20-50 type ins a day. Where are the best places to try to sell it to get top dollar? Domain boards? Auction sites?
And whitch ones?

Ugh, that question again. Read my first two posts again..lol

There is no standard pricing for a domain that gets xxx type-ins. It depends on many factors. Send it over to me and I'll give you a custom appraisal

Afternic.com
Sedo.com
GreatOverpricedDomains.com
for endbuyers

DomainState.com
DnForum.com
for resellers

For those looking for appraisals from "domain professionals" (LOL)
and not from people who get paid by you to tell you lies about the worth of your domains, go here:

http://new.domainstate.com/forumdisp...3?s=&forumid=4

and here:

http://www.dnforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4

Very nice.. in other industries, the practice is often called arbitrage. Buying something in one market for the purpose of turning around and selling it in another to profit from a price discrepancy. Throw in option contracts (written or verbal) and the opportunities leap out at you.

Excellent application of sound business fundamentals to a unique commodity. My guess is that you're doing quite well as a result.

Very nice tutorial Dom

bookmarked and searching....

thanks for the interesting post dombuyer..

The Big Bang for Your Buck: Putting down $25k for one domain

Yesterday was a $1k (or less) name, today we're gonna risk $25k and go for the easy money return without having to do all the pesky work required on multiple little purchases.

So, you get a line of credit from your bank to renovate your basement, and instead decide that your basement looks fine for now, you'd rather put that money to work.

First and foremost, the motivation behind all this, something that's in my mind all the time:

The domain market, like traditional real estate, is hot hot hot. Buy prices are high, but the rewards are high too. Within just the last 8 months, I've watched $15k domains turn into $25k, $35k and $50k domains.

Will it continue? If you bought a $25k domain today, will it be $50k in just a few short months?

Who knows????

Here's my take:

The PPC market is what revived the domain market and saved it from what many of us--including me a few years ago--thought would be the end. Scarcity of property and the ppc market have pushed values sky high. It's a new day every other day.

The PPC market is just getting started. The traditional models are dead and dull. Right now, lots of smart people are working on a much more sophisticated model that doesn't just hand surfers a page of dumb links that everyone gets tired of seeing. There is excitement about the next level. Domains are intimately tied to this, most notably type-in domains, because they naturally connect surfers to advertisers.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, the large search companies like Yahoo, Google and others are investing heavily in the future of PPC. I know from personal experience because they have all approached me about my domains, and while I can't say more than that, I will tell you that this is the single biggest sign that TYPE-IN domains will continue to grow in value when the big boys come a' knockin'.

There isn't "irrational exhuberance" in the market, but real-world investment in a solid future. Speculators will speculate in any market, and if they're all just selling to each other, pop goes the bubble. In this case, large companies both in the domain world and outside of it are descending and buying up large portfolios because there is a profitable search infrastructure making real money one click at a time. Doesn't seem like bubbly gases, but quite "real."

So, I personally think the market will continue to climb. I'm just one person though and I am heavily diversified. I also won't lose my line of credit if my one domain @$25k dies a death.

So this is the backdrop for your $25k leap. I think you're relatively "safe" from where I sit, but you're an adult and you risk how you feel.

You want to turn $25k into $35k in a few months, maybe a week or two. Or you want to turn that $25k into $50k over a long time frame.

First lesson of the day:

Go to dnjournal.com and study selling prices.

http://dnjournal.com/domainsales.htm

Make a very clear distinction between prices paid for brands and those paid for type-in domains. Both will factor into our decision to buy a $25k domain, but they're different animals with different risks.

Also make a distinction between extensions. You have .com .net and .info and then you have all the country codes. Unless you really know what you're doing, stay away from country codes. Stick with .com for the purposes of this experiment.

You don't want to blow $25k on a .net or .info. You'd be gambling and you might not be able to flip as readily as you like.

I paid close to $50k for xxx.net more than two years ago, and I am patient, but if you paid $25k today for the same name today, you might be able to sell it quickly to a reseller like me, but the fact is, .net's require patience. You don't have as much flexibility with a .net, unless it's a total deal.

I've talked in other threads about the fact that I think .nets are undervalued. Lots of smart people disagree with me, but it's one of the few areas where if you're willing to park your money for a year, you can turn a grand into 5 or 6, which is still a fantasy number compared to traditional investments.

Anyway, let's stick with .com's.

So back to the dnjournal selling list. Remember that these are just a fraction of the reported sales that go on. Many companies, like mine, both report and don't report sales depending on our needs and our confidences. Having said that, there's a pretty good correlation between reported sales and non reported sales, except at the extremes. Lots of companies who overpay don't want word getting out that they paid that much for a domain for shareholder reasons and/or competitive reasons. And on the lower end, lots of people don't want to report that they got a total steal in case they want to resell for much higher

My point is: the deals are often not reported. People like me who snooker great names for cheap aren't reporting them. Mostly.

Here's what not to waste your time chasing for $25k:

1. Three letter .com's. Owner of these names are bombarded with people wanting to buy these. Forget it. Those who haven't sold out want insane prices. You'll never make a decent short term return unless you really know what you're doing.

2. One word generics, present tense. (Example: run.com instead of ran.com) Most people who speculate in domains go through their mental list of one word domains and start emailing: fun.com, girl.com, sweet.com, fresh.com.....etc. And guess what? All those names are $100k or more, and you'll never get in the door. Remember you're looking for the road less traveled. You're going to have to compromise for $25k.

Now let's stop here and break down owners:

1. Large owners who do this for a living. You see their names on lots of whois records. They'll sell for the right price, but they know exactly what those names are worth to them, and it ain't in your range. If it is, you're getting a dud, a name that looks good from the outside, but it sucks on the inside (traffic-wise, resale-wise.) You'll have a time tough getting the better of these guys.

2. A person who registered one monster a long time ago and has never sold. I know how to crack such people, and they are usually really annoying and eccentric, but to be fair, they have been bombarded by so many idiots (not me of course, lol, I'm different) that they have a right to be snarky.

Example One: Posters.com owner. A genuine crank. Owner of one of the most coveted and potentially profitable names in domain land. Now he's clued in and is pointing psters.com to allposters.com, which pays out as much as 30% on sales, but when I contacted him a few years ago, he made me knash my teeth 1000 times because he was so objectionable, and he was doing virtually nothing with the name. It almost made me weep.

Eventually, I gave up. No chance of a deal to be had.

BUT BUT BUT, these people are exactly the types that most people give up on. This guy was never going to sell cheap, but occasionally you get people who are nasty but might actually sell at a reasonable price. They require finesse, patience, a certain understanding of their situation. They can be the most rewarding.

Example Two: Bikers.com. The owner was just a piece of work. Not the current owner who I sold to (Modern Empire). He was such a nasty guy and completely unreasonable. Cut to me buying the name after many months of frustration and making a very good multiple. Slurp.

Example Three: Kitty.com. Mentioned earlier in this thread. Same scenario, lots of hand holding, really eccentric, geeky, short-tempered, a real nut.
But now I own the domain and I'm happy. If I sold today, I'd make approx 10X what I paid last year.

This is the paradox of domain buying: Something or someone difficult is often the encouragement you need, because if it was easy to contact and owner, get an amazing price and flip the name, it's already been done---by professionals like me (I am a professional, right? Right? LOL)

Most people give up in stages. Get past the first couple of hurdles and you're closer.

People spend far too much time on the numbers on a domain, but little time considering that behind that domain is an owner with a very specific set of needs that can lead to a sale under the right circumstances.

There are lots of other owners. There are large media companies who aren't using a name. Forget it. You'll never get in the door, unless you are especially corporate and can speak their language. Plus, you're into voice mail after voice mail, in the land of grownups and people who take forever to make a decision.

There are hosting companies that registered names over the years as part of their lifestyle. But they're geeks who usually know the Net inside and out and have glanced at a domain board or two and know value.

(con't below)

There are lots of types of owners. Google the whois. Google their admin email. The more information, the better you can make your pitch and know how much they might be happy with.

The point is to stay away from what you can't crack, even if sometimes you'll crack someone or someone that you never anticipated.

So, the owner is actually going to influence your purchase, not just the name.

So, where do I see value for $25k?

1. Singular versions of popular one word plurals.
Example: biker.com instead of bikers.com, friend.com instead of friends.com. Purse.com instead of purses.com. You'll have to travel to more obscure names, like when I bought robot.com instead of robots.com. Robot.com is not friend.com, if you catch my drift, so it was easier and cheaper to get.

Case Study: Purse.com
The admin contact on the email was outdated. The former owner, a Korean deli owner in Times Square, was impossible to find. The name sat there like a glowing gem, and many of us in the biz doing everything we could to find the owner. This is an often overlooked area for noobs. They send an email, no one replies, their email bounces, they give up.

For us in the business, we get excited. Why? Because money is made in lonely places! The path less traveled.

I put my partner on the case. Everything in the whois was out of date.

My partner found him in some business directory doing some cross-referencing. What ensued with the Korean owner, amidst the noise and craziness of Times Square, was pure Keystone Kops. One of the many adventures in this business I'll never forget. A mix of fun and angst. His wife was the one who wouldn't sell cheap, and she kept screaming in Korean everytime he agreed to a price.

Cut to: We sold the name to Slavik. It wasn't that valuable to our ppc model.

We doubled our money in less than a week.

Today, that name is worth double or more than what Slavik paid for it.

(Before people start stampeding to check purseS.com, the plural of the name I bought, it's priced at:

$250k. (and I've offered her $75k...lol))

So singular versions of common plural one worders have value if you can get them.

One day, I decided to go through a color list of names that a guy had compiled on his website. Color names that were registered. I went through the entire list in about two hours. By the end of the day, I'd bought two of them and flipped.

Very colorful.

Do that with animals. I bought hamster.com, parrot.com etc after doing this.

Less known animals are opportunities. Check their Overture scores or Google returns if you're not sure of their value. Check Google bids.

Here's where I think your $25k also has possibility:

Two worders of popular phrases. One worders are crowded, two worders less so, and their resale value continues to climb.

Make sure the phrases make sense, but not too much popular sense, as you won't get them for $25k (although who knows, you might)

CarDeal.com went recently for $9100
FashionWalker.com went recently for $17k.
CuteGreetings.com went for $10k.

All three of these names could have been had for a lot less if you were persistent with the previous owner. Increasingly, these are not flukes, but the norm.

I must take a moment to distinguish between what some company pays to brand and a name that EVERYONE would want because it's generic and/or has type-ins.

Stay away from a brand, like wynnhotels.com. You're squatting. It's "wrong" and you're threatening your $25k investment in a serious way. You could lose it overnight.

I owned Picasso.com for some time. I even developed a site, the horrible 1999-ish remains of which are still there. The site made great money, like clockwork, but every day of the week I owned it, I was in fear of the Picasso-Estate taking it away from me. Eventually, I sold it to someone who owns Picasso Diving Wear, who is somewhat protected by a copyright he has on the name.

The sleepless nights weren't worth it.

So, to sum up a bit:

The best place to put your $25k:

1. Off-kilter or singular present tense one word.com's Examples above.
2. Keyword two-worders or generic brands.

Always check Overture and other sources noted to make sure these phrases are in play in the culture.

Also check the US Trademark Database (think it's down for maintenance right now) to see if someone owns the rights to that phrase.

I'm going to take a break, and search for some concrete examples of what I would buy for $25k.

To be continued.

By the way, never anticipated this, but a few different blogs/boards/etc have asked to post my masturbatory prose on their sites. Go crazy, all I ask is that you have my email and icq under my Dombuyer moniker.

Here are two:

http://forums.weboverdrive.com/showthread.php?t=17921

http://www.businessvoyeur.com/2005-0...s-domain-guide

If someone wants to roll this into an affiliate program and make some coin, go crazy, just make sure I get half.

Having said all that, I'm happy just to help elevate the game a little and keep everyone off my icq.

wow, great read. thanks a lot Dom Buyer.

And Taboo can shop the book rights.

awesome post...

Here's a name that sold for $25k today and I missed it by seconds.

CityHall.com
200+ uniques a day
Earning $400 a month through domainsponsor

Alex Lerman beat me to it.

But a good example of a very good generic two worder you'd never lose money on, and surprisingly, doing quite well on ppc.

Good for our class today

How do you feel about buying names on places like pool.com?
Is it harder to make a profit from names bought at auction?

Great thread. In fact I don't know why I'm bumping it =)

Thanks DomBuyer

i just found some decent unregistered domains with a score of 200-500. how many typeins can you expect those to get?

I've never liked drop services. Prices are ridiculous. But lots of players like 'em. Just not my end of the market.

Actually, this deserves a longer answer:

The drop services have extremely savvy people around the table, prefiguring what a certain domain is worth to them. It's like going into a pit of traders who do this for a living, and trying to outsmart them as a noob on a domain's value. You're going to overpay in that scenario.

You'll notice that many of the sales on the dnjournal.com sales list are names that are really really overpriced--and surprise! They're pool names!

It's the ebay phenomenon: people get excited when bidding against others. I never want to be bidding against anyone except myself.

Sold for 5 years income. This has value for a different reason to you?

"CityHall.com
200+ uniques a day
Earning $400 a month through domainsponsor"

So if I can find 2k uniques a day.....