I talked to Greg Gaskell today from XXX Outsourcing today.

Good stuff. Competition is healthy, and in this industry, concern often rises when other are having problems. I see no problems that can't be solved with outsourcing.

Nice to know that aspect of the industry is seemingly on top of things.

I also have first hand knowledge that Greg has fallen victim to a failed employee coup. I was really sad to here of that situation because I personally know that Greg has put a lot of sweat, blood, and tears into making xxxoutsourcing a great outsourcing company. Even when adultoutsourcing.com (my old outsourcing company that feel victim to the same thing that happened to Greg here) was in full all out competition with Greg, we still managed grab a few beers once a week and talk about how we could make the Outsourcing Industry stronger with quality assurance.

Bottom line is, Greg is a really good guy, a hard worker, and someone which I personally feel cares about every business relationship that he is in.

In regards to Iwebmasters ? great company that is run by smart trustworthy people as well.

If I were shopping for outsourcing ? it would be a tough choice between these two companies

Why exactly has this happened to 2 companies now? Will it happen again? If so, how long until we can expect another coup attempt?

Thats a little unsettling.

The problem lies in your local management and revenues.

In the case of adultoutsourcing - EVERYTHING was based in the Philippines including the accounting department, bank accounts etc. The primary manager was a local and the company had very little foriegn workers. In fact, the only foriegners were me the owner. The manager just simply locked down the office and change the name of the company.

That is problaly the same case for XXXOUTSOURCING, but I know that Greg has probaly already changed alot of this. I expect that this will be in place very shortly by Greg. Then that company will be safe as any.

Iwebmasters is a little different - they have a SIGNIFICANT American staff that works IN THE OFFICE in the Philippines. The legal company is based in the USA and the revenues are collected in the USA. It is a very safe innovative design that should have been put in place for AOS and XXX as well.

Who's the employee who attempted the coup?

Damn... that is crazy.. I'd like to see Xbiz go there and make a documentary of this... I'd definately pay $20 to see it.

Just tell them to leave this board the fuck alone and no one will give a shit either way what happened. I hate outsourcers.

a coup? fuck talk about disloyal employees

I'm glad Greg got out of this situation just fine. I am Filipino-American and I can't help but feel embarrassed when non-Filipino businessmen get burned or almost get burned by local shenanigans. Not all Filipinos do business like this. Not all Filipinos try to jack foreign partners. Not all Filipinos try to hide around legal vagaries and confusion to unfairly edge out capital partners. If there's one thing the Philippines needs to pull itself out of poverty it is CAPITAL. Capital gets scared off when news like the attempted xxxoutsourcing coup gets around. Capital flees when there's a lax local court system to enforce contracts/and or protect property rights (both local and foreign). Part of this problem is due to the archaic business ownership rules here in the Philippines. Part of it are also the factors James (manilaheat) described above--infrastructure/accounting layout and corporate role allocation. But as the resolution of this recent problem illustrates, the outsourcing business is still in relative infancy and everyone is still quickly evolving to meet legal, logistical, and cultural issues. We can't anticipate all possible problems, but we can definitely make space in our business models and legal/manpower structures to absorb these unpleasant surprises. Just part of evolving business in a sometimes hostile setting.

I wish XXXOutsourcing and iWebmasters the best and continued success. If anyone is looking for leased design/programming services, definitely check these companies out.

This statement is 100% correct.

Man you need to pay these Filipino guys once in a while to keep them happy. Show them pics of Florida and tell them how through hard work, blood, sweat and tears they too could be there one day.

On a serious note, glad things worked out in the end.

Nice thread (I read only the first post btw), the real question is which outsourcing company gives a 6 months free trial?

;)

Was great to talk to you today and you hit the nail on the head Rick.
"It's safe to do business there, you just have to spend a lot of money on lawyers and corporate stucture before going into it.
"
Our new legal and corporate stucture is in place and i'm happy to say it's much better than before and we are confident in the way it has been put together that it will keep us safe to do business.

Rick this is one of those reasons why your a piece of shit in my book.
Not just a couple days ago...

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=450560


And then we got a coup in this XXX outsourcing company prolly for being to cheap to pay his labor in the first place resulting in a revolt and had to "Relolocate"...

Phhhshhhhh...

Mybe the next crew he shangai's can get linking code right.

I feel drama coming. so.....




sig placement for 1st page is confirmed





thank you for your order,


Sig Placment Consultants Inc.

What did I have to do with that thread? I only made one post that said I would purchase the company if it was truely over and I waited to make that post until days had gone by. I've been frantically trying to get hold of Greg this whole time to make sure he was ok. It wasn't until I'm back from Phoenix until I could stay online long enough for him to find us.

You are the only one attacking me on the boards lately. I must be doing something right. I strongly suggest that you pick on someone your own size because I really don't like being harrased.


You are an American designer. I appreciate why outsourcing companies bother you. There is nothing I can do about it. I'll do my business. You do your business. Best of luck to you.

good luck!

aaah, the smell of fresh drama in the morning...

There is no drama here. It's just a pissed off American designer who is losing work to low cost Asian labor. He'll probably also tell you that I scammed him out of 10,000 dollars because Lensman booted him from GFY and the contest ended. Neither of which are my fault, of course but he won't listen to reason and thinks that attacking someone of my stature is going to actually get him somewhere.

who then is the owner of xxx now? are they still in service?

sorry to hear that Greg is having problems..... one thing is for sure though, he will get it sorted out..... diamond geeza.

coup was a result of not giving the workers what they deserve.
pinoys are smart, so be fair.
go for an all Fillipino outsourcing company. check the sig

People will never learn.

way to go!











































...NOT!!!!

Damn that sucks. Personally I think employees should help their superiors for the good of the company instead of leading coups.

i've heard about the attempted coup at xxx so i'm glad it's getting back to normal again.
You have to remember that in every company there's always a "snake" and even if you give them higher pay or good benefits some aren't really happy because you cannot please everybody.

You know, i stay quiet while this big outsourcing thing started, and everyone cheered, sort of dumb if you ask me. Taking money out of hard working webmasters here in our own back yard makes fucking zero sense to me no matter how much money I would save.

Rick I hit you up on ICQ a few times told you I was going to in Phoenix to talk, got introduced by Tanker to you, and it just seemed you were a much to busy and very important guy to spend 1 min talking.

I asked someone about this and they said "dont worry he just lacks social skills" so I thought I would give you a second chance, walked by you a few more times, hahaha, so funny. Oh well, i dont know man, you just seem very cool, to cool to talk to us little people I guess?

So the end of the day, i dont have much to talk to you about anyway, but I thought that I would say hello, most people say nice things about you. Normaly when someone walks up to me to say hello I have a conversation with them and see how they are doing and do a little bit of chit chat. I will always do that no matter how big or small I am in this world.

power to the workers

Great news Greg

Right then let me translate......
coup was a result of not giving the workers what they deservehahaha8230;hahaha8230;.
coup was a result of not giving the workers enough discipline so they became a little union and then decided that they donhahaha8217;t need the financial and moral support of the hahaha8220;foreign managementhahaha8221; as it is easy to gain clients from the boards and make all the money themselves (dreamers). But donhahaha8217;t forget now that they have been taught how to do a decent job and be more efficient on the companyhahaha8217;s time and money. Real loyal you flip flophahaha8217;s, you should be proud of yourselves.

pinoys are smart, so be fairhahaha8230;hahaha8230;
Flip flops are smart, (especially the Marcos family who managed to steal a good % of the countries GDP every year of their presidency) so smart that they will jump ship and forget all of the help and support their employer has given them as well as their morals for a 5 dollar per month pay rise. So smart, that after sitting in the office at xxx watching all of the ex staff of AOS come in for interviews because they have no income to feed their kids now (after staging their own coup and it all going horribly wrong). So the SMART Flip flops follow this example. SMART?

go for an all Filipino outsourcing companyhahaha8230;hahaha8230;
And they will guarantee bad grammar and spelling mistakes on every project they produce because there is no fluent English speaker around to check the workhahaha8230;.. but on a positive they will call you Sir, and use it at the end of every sentence without fail, so hopefully this will make you feel important and help you forget all of the mistakes.

I donhahaha8217;t normally make such bold comments but I happen to know that the staff at xxx were treated very well, the bottom line is Greg paid the agreed salaries on time, every time, and a lot of those times it was out of his own pocket as the company was costing more to run than it was makinghahaha8230;hahaha8230; send the Spanish back to manila, they knew how to get respect from the Flipshahaha8230;. Point a gun in their facehahaha8230; treating them well just seems to get you fucked not respectedhahaha8230;.

i hope he hires some new people. some of his staff are pure ass clowns

girls cant work.

''Part of this problem is due to the archaic business ownership rules here in the Philippines. Part of it are also the factors James (manilaheat) described above--infrastructure/accounting layout and corporate role allocation. But as the resolution of this recent problem illustrates, the outsourcing business is still in relative infancy and everyone is still quickly evolving to meet legal, logistical, and cultural issues''

In all reality it's a problem for many foreigners to really setup a ph company add to that the real legalities of porn and there you go. Many outsource companies are setup as 'partnerships' and there is where the problem comes from..end of day in many countries it's the owner that owns. As long as the owner is a 'client' of his own company there is simply going to be a problem, sooner or later.

A staff 'coup' is made possible because the 'owners' operates in a grey area. Many foreigners don't have the real visa's to work so they can't directly manage the staff, only indirect through the local 'partner'. I don't know any country where the staf could take over a bankaccount, a lease contract or labor contracts.

Just my 2cnts ;-)

what kind of nonsense is that

i would like to start this with Rick first. did you know the following:

1. first and foremost, i trusted Greg blindly. but he robbed me blindly.
2. our company supplied employees to handle his OWN affiliate programs. and on this matter, i started investigating what's going on only to have great concern to see Greg was doing undesirable toons. this was when i came to the conclusion that i did not want any part of this type of service. if he's doing things that i didn't agree with, what else is he doing?
3. i was kind enough to get a condo for his friends who was also one of our clients. Mick, Greg's partner, ended up having sexual affairs with the
client's girlfriend. in turn, the client got mad and stuck me with the condo bills. gee, what a friend you have and a business partner, Greg.
4. Greg did not fund the check for his condo that i have in my name which i'm STILL paying for
5. three months of internet bills that i'm STILL paying for because he would not fund it
6. Greg's voice over IP that i'm STILL having to pay for
7. two months electric bills that i'm STILL having to pay for
8. employees' payroll, benefits and taxes that i'm STILL having to pay for
9. and finally, poor Greg, got all the clients' payments that I SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

i could continue with this long list here but why? i think i made my point. now judge for yourselves. is it really poor Greg? i have all the bills and statements and bounced checks to prove what i have stated. all i can say on this board is that you can come to your own conclusions.

any of our clients who wish to leave Greg and posts "GREG IS A THIEF", you'll get 2 weeks free. feel free to call us anytime: 1-866-978-1048.

and for you Greg, i dont have anything to say, except #75##$*)*(&&@@$$!!!



-Lois

Sounds you have a hard time dealing with your problems inside your company. Greg is handling an order for me and I'll pay him for it. I could care less where the money goes. That's not by business. You guys sort it out.

Yes you do, and it doesn't go unnoticed - a lot of people like that about you.

None of the above.

I can smell a scum bag a mile away...
I will be laughing my ass off when your Latino labor shanks you. Someone of your stature? Please I have offended far bigger and far better men.

Birds of a feather, birds of a feather.

So after shafting greg there are some outstanding bills in the company name.

Who put all of the money in to start the company and where are all of the thousands of dollars worth of computers and office equptment now Lois??? who robbed who???

and as for bribing people with free work to call Greg a thief on this board..... not everyone has the same ethics as you thank god. a lot of people in the western world put honor before money. but i can apprieceate that this is a concept you don't understand.

Lois, we had a two hour meeting as you know and in that meeting you gave me the following options with your company that services my clients for xxxoutsourcing.com

1) You would close it and sell everythinghahaha8230;
2) You would sell it to mehahaha8230;
3) You would sell it to someone elsehahaha8230;.


The conclusion of the meeting was that I would give you a letter of intent from my lawyer to say I was in serious negotiations of taking it over providing:

1) You do not change anything in operations of the company without discussing it with me while negotiations are going on for buying you out (which you agreed to verbally)
2) Auditors are brought in the mean time (which you agreed to verbally)
3) Due Diligence is done (which you agreed to verbally)

The following day you broke your verbal agreement and decided without informing me that you would make changes into the usual business day and disrupting plans that were made to continue to service clients.

I found this un-acceptable as a business decision & considering what was agreed the day before and called you to ask why, you told me hahaha8220;you can do what you like and you have another buyer now that will take everything overhahaha8221;.

You were told that you should go with your new buyer and you agreed and Ihahaha8217;m sure that he did his due diligence on the company and he knows what has to be paid by taking over the office and the take over seemed to be a hostile takeover from your party and due diligence would show that xxxoutsourcing.com and the clients belong to me and as you were told that from the beginning.

Ihahaha8217;m still open for negotiation if ithahaha8217;s not working out for you as the original agreement.

Some blanket statements I'm reading here about Filipinos.

I understand being angry, but some of you should watch what you say.

Repost as some comments are not allowed due to GFY restrictions..


Lois, we had a two hour meeting as you know and in that meeting you gave me the following options with your company that services my clients for xxxoutsourcing.com

1) You would close it and sell everything.
2) You would sell it to me.
3) You would sell it to someone else.


The conclusion of the meeting was that I would give you a letter of intent from my lawyer to say I was in serious negotiations of taking it over providing:

1) You do not change anything in operations of the company without discussing it with me while negotiations are going on for buying you out (which you agreed to verbally)
2) Auditors are brought in the mean time (which you agreed to verbally)
3) Due Diligence is done (which you agreed to verbally)

The following day you broke your verbal agreement and decided without informing me that you would make changes into the usual business day and disrupting plans that were made to continue to service clients.

I found this un-acceptable as a business decision & considering what was agreed the day before and called you to ask why, you told me you can do what you like and you have another buyer now that will take everything over.

You were told that you should go with your new buyer and you agreed and i am sure that he did his due diligence on the company and he knows what has to be paid by taking over the office and the take over seemed to be a hostile takeover from your party and due diligence would show that xxxoutsourcing.com and the clients belong to me and as you were told that from the beginning.

I am still open for negotiation if it is not working out for you as the orginal agreement.

Dudes,

If you have just a little bit of business sense you fight this out 'off board'.

Kids ;-)

Outsourcing has evolved to become a promising industry in Philippines. I remember a couple of years back when AOS first introduced a concept service (dedicated full-time staff) which lead to other companies to start their own, probably they have seen the potential benefits over the course of time. Actually, outsourcing (in general) is not new to the Philippine market. Four years ago, I worked in a Call Center company which houses more than 100 seats. They offer various services from acquisition marketing and sales, to fulfillment and customer care, you name it, we have it here. Currently, my former colleagues told me that they?ve grown to expand 1,000 more seats.

The Philippines today is considered the new outsourcing hub in the Asia and is expected to grow by 100% in the next 12 months from the current 20,000-capacity seats, Australia-based callcentres.net said in a recent study. Offshore outsourcing is enjoying a period of "super growth" which is propelling it into the mainstream. A report predicts that over 250,000 new call-center agent positions will be created in India and the Philippines by 2009.Big companies like Microsoft, Dell, Macromedia, just to name a few, has taken advantage of this enormous potential solution which saved them Billions of $$$. It's what business is all above, it doesn't matter if they close their branch in the US/India and relocate elsewhere if they can earn more from it. Smart people think beyond their borders and this has become an unstoppable trend for most companies.

However you need to consider a lot of critical factors to become successful in the biz, else you would put yourself at the edge of a cliff, just what happened to AOS and XXXoutsourcing. I encountered numerous client complaints about their staff not being able to report for work, poor performance of staff assigned, regular employee resignations and other in-house issues... that will later lead to the account cancellation and we end up being the big losers. Clients don?t give a damn if there?s a riot/coup going on, as long as you the deliver the goods as ordered. To complicate things more, later you found out that your ex-staff decided to do freelancing with his former client and use the knowledge he learned for his own benefit. You feel angry, spend on thousands just to train them, but what can you do? Surely you cannot confine them to one place and have them work for you all the time. It sucks to accept realism and start all over from square one. Don't forget that these talented employees are not just monkeys you pay $10/day. They have the brains that work 24/7 which you don't have any control. I always welcome healthy competition, its good for the business and it?s the only time your brain starts think of ways to outsmart each other.

Bottom line, you have to address any lope hole every time you get the opportunity. Take care the needs of your staff and clients to assure secure business relationship. Ensure proper monitoring by a middleman whose only work is to it guarantee that no backdoor negotiations are happening between the client and staff and vice versa. Don?t be caught off guard. We tend to focus early too much on how to earn more, instead of ensuring that your people are happy with their work. Small issues lead to bigger problems.

Outsourcing has a new home and surely will stay that way. It's predicted that it?s only a matter of time before India and China catch up, but I doubt. Filipinos are way above the scale if you compare stats with them, as far as English proficiency is concerned. Seen companies grow and fall apart. And the lesson learned? Companies who fail to predict and adapt to change will surely be counting coins in their pockets. Survival of the fittest, it?s a jungle out there.

Work and Play Hard, Be Fair.

Your comment is professional, valid, wise and constructive...
I 2nd that, but i am sure it will be dragged out.