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acctman

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#1

Cease and Desist

03-12-2005, 10:54 AM

anyone ever receive a cease and desist for a domain you've owned? i've received one but after talking to a few copyright/trademark and internet lawyers they said I have a good case if they try to sue me for it.

there's no trade/copyright for the name of the domain i own, just a well know famous person/company who has used the name but didn't bother to register the domain or anything. i'm not even worried i don't plan on handing over the domain like the demanded and i'm willing to go to court and sue for my time wasted and legal fees if i win.

so who has fought for a domain, and who has just willingly given it up? from my understanding cease and desist letters cost like $150 to have sent out by a lawyer and its usually done to scare you into doing what they want even if they have no real case.
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#2

03-12-2005, 10:59 AM

good luck with that. I wouldn't be to worried.
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#3

03-12-2005, 11:00 AM

i got one on a domain i had before, i didnt give it up and nothing came of it. think about how much $ the domain would be worth to them and if they can afford it. if they can theres a good chance they will sue you.

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acctman

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#4

03-12-2005, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by beemk

i got one on a domain i had before, i didnt give it up and nothing came of it. think about how much $ the domain would be worth to them and if they can afford it. if they can theres a good chance they will sue you.

yeah they can afford to sue me, and they can afford to make me an offer even though i don't want to sell. they also don't own two other domains that they probably should be owning. i'm sure those sites got a similar letter and told them to fuck off.
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#5

03-12-2005, 11:36 AM

come on, tell us the name of the domain!

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#6

03-12-2005, 11:37 AM

fuckem, make them pay you for it
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#7

03-12-2005, 11:48 AM

What is the name of the domain? We could advise you alot better...they cannot sue you easily if the domain is not in commerce...and if the domain can have another purpose other than this person who wants it, it further dilutes...but if you have a brand name of some sort, person place or thing, you may get hammered...

Give us the domain name, and we can be more specific I am sure.
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#8

03-12-2005, 11:58 AM

yeah a name would be cool

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#9

03-12-2005, 01:57 PM

Whatever you do, do not enter into any sort of negotiations whatsoever for the sale of the domain name. IF THE DOMAIN IS SIMPLY PARKED, then only ever answer any emails/phonecallsenquiring to buy the domain with, "sorry, the domain is not for sale. A websiteis currently in development".

If the domain already points to a valid website, then you may be ableinto negotiations to buy the website, but at no pointshould you mention selling the 'domain' as the sole purpose of the sale.

Domain squatting is illegal and as such if this guy had prior rights to the name, even if he didn't register it, you will lose it in court if you showed any evidence of holding the domain to sell it.

It's tempting, but do notacceptor negotiate any moneys for anything that has been sent a C&D.

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#10

03-12-2005, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by acctman

anyone ever receive a cease and desist for a domain you've owned? i've received one but after talking to a few copyright/trademark and internet lawyers they said I have a good case if they try to sue me for it.

there's no trade/copyright for the name of the domain i own, just a well know famous person/company who has used the name but didn't bother to register the domain or anything. i'm not even worried i don't plan on handing over the domain like the demanded and i'm willing to go to court and sue for my time wasted and legal fees if i win.

so who has fought for a domain, and who has just willingly given it up? from my understanding cease and desist letters cost like $150 to have sent out by a lawyer and its usually done to scare you into doing what they want even if they have no real case.

I got one back in 99/00, had a good case, but at the time didnt havethe money to challenge them in court so i settled with them and they bought it from me for a goodprice.

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Chio The Pirate

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#11

03-12-2005, 09:59 PM

YARGH! I got one for ebayandpaypalaresofuckinggaytheyshouldbefloggedwit hahammerintheskull.org

I stopped using it, wasn't gettin' much traffic anyway

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#12

03-12-2005, 10:04 PM

Always evaluate if its worth the cost of fighting. Don't keep the domain just based on principle that it was yours and someone wants it. If it makes money, weigh the cost of fighting it with how much the domain makes you.

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#13

03-12-2005, 10:28 PM

This thread is full of idiots (the first part).

Telling them to "fuck off" is going to get you farther than anything else! And whatever you do, DO NOT post the domain name here. Nothing good will come of it.

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#14

03-12-2005, 11:08 PM

I got one years ago for bestviagra.com

I didn't renew it so they won
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#15

03-12-2005, 11:16 PM

Depends on the name, desire, and pockets of the trademark owner.

Don't take this kind of thing lightly. You can get seriously fucked in a case, especially where they sue you in their jurisdiction and its distant from where you are. Legal fees alone to defend yourself can quickly go into 5 figures and higher.

And if you lose, they can recover all the profits you've made off of it.

They can subpoena your banks and sponsors and get access to all your financial records.

You should seek the advice of a competent trademark attorney immediately.

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Chio The Pirate

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#16

03-12-2005, 11:18 PM

YARGH! Good advice from a sailor that knows! The good ship KRL is worth sailin'

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#17

03-12-2005, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by KRL

You should seek the advice of a competent trademark attorney immediately.

Or surrender the domain name immediately. Although I would never advise against legal advise

Sometimes I find deleting the domain name can be better than signing something and transferring it.

However; I am not a lawyer and this is most definitely not legal advice.

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#18

03-12-2005, 11:28 PM

Send this email to them.

Dear Sir,

I registered the domain in question with the sole intent of selling it to you for a nice profit. Please pay me $10,000 for the domain, if not fuck off.

Thank you
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#19

03-12-2005, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by SuckOnThis

Send this email to them.

Dear Sir,

I registered the domain in question with the sole intent of selling it to you for a nice profit. Please pay me $10,000 for the domain, if not fuck off.

Thank you

That is the IDIOT approach these days. If you have money and play the fuck you card, the guys with bucks (which any company sending a C&D usually have) will make it their mission to judgment your cocky ass.

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#20

03-12-2005, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by KRL

That is the IDIOT approach these days. If you have money and play the fuck you card, the guys with bucks (which any company sending a C&D usually have) will make it their mission to judgment your cocky ass.

It was a joke. Just playing into the mentality of some of the kids on this board. I've had to sue a few times over domain squatting with domains that were trademarked and I've received responses like that.

As for the original poster, I seriously doubt you talked to any Attorney about this. No competent Attorney is going to tell you that you have a good case simply because the name is not trademarked. If they can prove first use of the name you lose, simple as that.
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acctman

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#21

03-13-2005, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by will76

I got one back in 99/00, had a good case, but at the time didnt havethe money to challenge them in court so i settled with them and they bought it from me for a goodprice.

they haven't offered to settle/buy the domain. they're just demanding it for free, and i'm not just going to hand something over just because they want it. I didn't register the domain to sell it but if they make and offer and give me a month to redirect traffic then fine.

Last edited by acctman; 03-13-2005, 12:27 AM.
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#22

03-13-2005, 12:54 AM

I got years ago C&D from Playboy enterprises regarding www.uniformplaymates.com whish i used to host few free unifrom niche sites and it was well positioned at SEs. I discussed quite much with their legal dept and refused to let it go until I got their letter by ordinary mail. After that I agreed either transfer it for them or let it expire. So, it expired and now it seems to be owned by some marketing company / "domain spammer".

Anyway, is there any reason to start legal proceedings regarding some domain expecially if it is for you worth of zero dollars? I say no - theres much more productive things to concentrate than pointless fights over some marginal domain.
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acctman

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#23

03-13-2005, 01:00 AM

here's a quick break down of everything. spoke two 3 lawyers all said i'd have a good chance of keeping the domain, but it comes down to how much i want to spend to keep it.
what i have:
1. i have a legal pending trademark (i can make it official at anytime i want. it's in the final stage of approval i just have to respond.) with the domain name.
2. i'm NOT using that persons name, or company, to people to the site
3. i'm not making a profit from the site, never have even though i could if i wanted
4. not cybersitting, or trying to sell/profit from the domain

what they have and don't:
1. no copyright, no trademark to the actual name
2. they do have a trademark but it doesn't protain to anything outside of clothing. (keep in mind the US Patent and Trademark office will not process a trademark if the see conflict)
3. A lot of money probably close to $100+ million
4. they also don't own two domains that are products of theres. (which i could use in my favor)

I've done all of me response in writing, not mentioning money (really don't care about that) it's up to them if they want to offer. It's pretty much a lawyers job to threaten and scare you. It would cost me personal about $3500 to get a lawyer which i'm considering just based on principle. The internet lawyer i spoke to said not many people fight cases based on principle. but, i've invested time and money into the site and never thought about getting anything back from it other than a popular fun site. And to just hand it over someone after running it for 2 years and receiving pretty damn good traffic, is just not right.

only time will tell... i hope everything goes okay 50/50 chance. thanks for all the good and bad advice guys =)
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#24

03-13-2005, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by acctman

anyone ever receive a cease and desist for a domain you've owned? i've received one but after talking to a few copyright/trademark and internet lawyers they said I have a good case if they try to sue me for it.

there's no trade/copyright for the name of the domain i own, just a well know famous person/company who has used the name but didn't bother to register the domain or anything. i'm not even worried i don't plan on handing over the domain like the demanded and i'm willing to go to court and sue for my time wasted and legal fees if i win.

so who has fought for a domain, and who has just willingly given it up? from my understanding cease and desist letters cost like $150 to have sent out by a lawyer and its usually done to scare you into doing what they want even if they have no real case.

i have 2 questions, 1 statement and aprediction for ya

1 are your pockets deep
2 do you think logically

90% of lawyers will lie to you to take your case for money or notoriety regardless if they can win or not.

prediction
go to court - youll lose the domain your money and time.

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#25

03-13-2005, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by KRL

That is the IDIOT approach these days. If you have money and play the fuck you card, the guys with bucks (which any company sending a C&D usually have) will make it their mission to judgment your cocky ass.

fuckin-a right.

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#26

03-13-2005, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by KRL

That is the IDIOT approach these days. If you have money and play the fuck you card, the guys with bucks (which any company sending a C&D usually have) will make it their mission to judgment your cocky ass.

I host with Vacares
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#27

03-13-2005, 06:45 AM

If the company had a ? on the name prior to when you started using it, and they can prove that there is a name confusion, you will most likely lose. However, if they don't have a ?, tell them to eat your shit, and pick a different name.
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#28

03-13-2005, 06:58 AM

What if they got a ? after your domain name registration and you sell a similar product? I have a C&D from a shaving sponcor, I registered the name to sell thier product - They shave and no pay I change to a link that pays??

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#29

03-13-2005, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by devilspost

What if they got a ? after your domain name registration and you sell a similar product? I have a C&D from a shaving sponcor, I registered the name to sell thier product - They shave and no pay I change to a link that pays??

Alot of it has to do with the actual "use" of the name. If you simply had the domain prior to the ?, but they started using it first, they have a good chance at getting it from you, however if you had the domain and started using it before they got the ?, and can prove that, they will have a tough time getting it from you unless you have an idiot attorney.

The best way to go about this is to consult with an internet / TM attorney, if the ? holder is trying to come after you.
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#30

03-13-2005, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by ThumbWolf

Alot of it has to do with the actual "use" of the name. If you simply had the domain prior to the ?, but they started using it first, they have a good chance at getting it from you, however if you had the domain and started using it before they got the ?, and can prove that, they will have a tough time getting it from you unless you have an idiot attorney.

The best way to go about this is to consult with an internet / TM attorney, if the ? holder is trying to come after you.

I registered name to promote thier product. I sent the traffic to them. They got a ? after that. They did not pay for the traffic. I switched to another sponcor to test the traffic. The new sponsor pays. They sent me a C&D almost a year later.

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#31

03-13-2005, 07:32 AM

good luck acctman.
i think i know exactly what site you are talking about.
get them to settle with you! lol

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#32

03-13-2005, 07:33 AM

I had a latina site at mrsjuanvaldez.com. When I got the C&D I responded that I had money invested in it and inferred that I would fight their case. They made an offer which I accepted and transferred the domain.

I also had domains that I never developed with the name of a daughter in a well-known wrestling family from Texas. I had the family's real name as well as the "stage" name. The domains were about to expire so I sold for the cost of my registration.

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#33

03-13-2005, 09:28 AM

taking it directly to court is kinda expensive... why not go to WIPO first (if i were them)
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#34

03-13-2005, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by acctman

they haven't offered to settle/buy the domain. they're just demanding it for free, and i'm not just going to hand something over just because they want it. I didn't register the domain to sell it but if they make and offer and give me a month to redirect traffic then fine.

LOL hey they are never going to offer you money with a C&D Letter. " please stop using your domain name, it infringes upon our trademark, we want it, and um well we might offer you some money for it ?!? " That is never going to happen. They will basically say " you violated blah blah this is your notice to stop using it, if not legal action will be persued.

I actually received a phone call from their legal consul. I listened to what he had to say, he said I had till the end of the day to stop using it. I asked him to work with me, that i needed at least 48 hours. He said ok, I said good that will be enough time for my attorney to review the case and contact you and my attorney did. I attorney talked with him and basically told went over the 5 or 6 points of infringment. I forget them all but basically this is what I remember, are you trying to profit from their success. If you buy bestviagra, and you see a viagra like product, then you are fucked. if your name is similar to the people sending the C&D but your product is nothing like theirs, then they have no case based on that point. Good example here is Krystal.com, the guy that owned it had a printing business or something like that, opperated the business for acouple years with the website. Krystal Hamburgers cam along and sued him. Well if he was selling hamburgers, or even food for that matter, then he would be trying to profit off of their success. Only way to beat this is if the trademark is famous. If it is Microsoft.com and you want to sell gift baskets with it, it doesnt matter, the name is famous. Another point is if you are trying to tarnish their trandemark. If the purpose of you site it so make them look bad, etc... There are 3 or 4 more points. I would look them up and see how you fair.

In my case I knew I did not violate any of the sections so I pushed them to pay me or go to court. I was bluffing of course, but they knew they had a weak case and the paid me. My attorny got a nice chunk of it, but it was better then nothing.

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#35

03-13-2005, 06:36 PM

my brother had coke-can.com .. and coke tried to sue him... but my bro put up some stupid page about cocaine facts and a fake product... and they just ended up buying the domain from him

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#36

03-13-2005, 06:43 PM

I wouls sugguest that you make them an offer that they can not refuse. I dont know the details, so this is what I would sugguest.

1. Tell them that you need at least 30 days to redirect the traffic.
2. Ask them ti purchase the name from you, or state that you are willing to lease the name to them.

If they say fuck you, then fuck them. Just let the damn thing go.

After they take the domain name. tell them that you nees to fax some papers to them about the name etc.

At 1am, get 10 pieces of black paper and tape them together. Feed one end into the fax, and the other hold until the first comes out. Start the fax transmission. Tape the final ends together, and let the paper loop. You just spent enough of thier money for that time that you wasted on the domain.

Just my .50 cents

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#37

03-13-2005, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by pornguy

After they take the domain name. tell them that you nees to fax some papers to them about the name etc.

At 1am, get 10 pieces of black paper and tape them together. Feed one end into the fax, and the other hold until the first comes out. Start the fax transmission. Tape the final ends together, and let the paper loop. You just spent enough of thier money for that time that you wasted on the domain.

Just my .50 cents

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#38

03-13-2005, 06:57 PM

worst case you'll lose it
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#39

03-13-2005, 07:05 PM

I had some Viagra lawyers email me with some hate email...I desisted and moved onto other domains....done and next ;)

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