is it true you dont owe any country income tax if

get offshore and stay in one country.problem solved

what country are you talking about where I can stay without any problem at all and not pay ANY income tax ?

come to Croatia

Well yea :-) As long as you don't work there - ie earn a living locally. You have visitor status.

US may be the exception, depending on your VISA stuff - but most countries are OK for this.

But correct what iggysick said - even if you want to travel, it's nice to have a base in one or more offshore areas.

you need to talk to an accountant.

yeah , thats the idea , I would just do what I do now ,online marketing , and travel ,it doens't really cost that much to travel and I wouldn't have to pay income tax , I have been playing with those thoughts now for long time , it seems like a great way to travel the world and not pay tax

Fake Nick - if your "home country" is not the US, there is little problem. The only two problem areas, if they are that, are:

(a) you are a US citizen you are obliged to pay taxes on worldwide income irrespective of where you happen to live.

(b) it is wise to check out the tax rules in your home country re "foreign living". It is often OK to visit your home country on a sliding scale.. like one month/year to start and then increased to 2 months or so after a year or two, - else you may be subject to taxation in your home country for any funds brought into that country from foreign earnings.

Many countries have a geographical tax system - that means, any money earned from outside these countries is not taxable when you bring it into the country. Stuff like net earnings are OK. These are strictly speaking not offshore because locals still pay taxes - but you are exempt in that instance. Latin America is an example.

Then there are genuine offshore's with nada taxes and nada paperwork.

I am not from the US but Europe , I have no idea about the rules on foreign living and income in my country , I was hoping I didn't have to pay it because I dont live there and I dont earn there

seems kind of silly paying tax in a country where you dont live and where you dont earn money



example ?

I believe that "scheme" is called being a perpetual traveller. Might work, but once you return to your homeland, you'll have a hard time proving where the money came from and you may very well be taxed on it, given you can't prove taxes have been paid.

The best bet is to move to the UK, become a non-resident, and keep all your earnings abroad. Then you're only taxed of whatever you bring in to the UK. However, that is not as simple as it sounds but, it is doable and legit.

But as everyone else said, the safest is to just move to some remote offshore island and live there. If you're rich enough, move to Monaco - then you're still close to home.

My thoughts are this,although its technically possible l guess to travel the world use a computer for work and pay no tax etc......what about were you are going to get medical care,your pension in old age.....welfare if ever needed and other stuff.

The reason l say this is because although you travel you ususally have a home base ...and thats the place that will be asking questions.

I did simlar ,I spent a few years in asia travelling ,using my pc etc.....but once l was back in the UK and started to work there ,l was asked questions like ..what have you done for the last 5 yrs...it didnt impress the tax office when l told them l had just hung out in asia etc......

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Yea.. if you hold an EU passport - there is no problem with this. But, these vary a little - ya need to check the time you can spend in your "home country", but the rules are much the same and on a sliding scale for the time you can spend in your home country. That does not keep you... eg.. if you live in Holland, from living in Spain - although this is within the EU :-)

Your local tax people will give ya a doc on this.


Mmm.. there are a few... almost any Caribbean Island... for "corps", Panama if OK and costs little. Bahamas and Cayman is OK as well - cos, in your instance you have no need to hide anything. It is all above board. Also, tho I said places like Latin America are not really offshore - you won't get one form to fill in from them either. They are not interested in having you account for foreign earnings - there is no point :-)

Mmm.. Asian may be different Tortoise - never been there for any time and can't say. We've just got medical insurance to cover anything - including air ambulances where needed. But... a few countries have very good healthcare and often better or equal to the EU or US and this has not been a problem so far.

Hell.. hard luck on UK Revenue!! :-) Ya ain't done anything illegal and it's within their tax rules. But... it is handy to be able to prove that you did in fact "hang out in Asia" :-) (Like.. air tickets/passport stamp etc)...

thx for the info webby , you have been very helpfull !

Intresting replies ..always wondered about that

yea the problem was thou webby ...was that they asked how l managed to live etc etc....income etc etc.

I do know something that is under wraps at the moment for any UK guys here on the board,its that the goverment is planning on taking away your right to free health care etc if you are out the country for more than 6 months....I guess the reason for this is that a lot of people go live in florida for example then if they need anything they fly back to the UK to get it free.

This is all hush-hush at the moment ,saw a program on it but it seems the goverment is making no comments or statements regarding it ..l guess it could affect a few million people .

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Hi Tortoise - Yea.. understand! :-) And... what had it got to do with them how you earned your living money?? :-) As long as it was not from, in your instance, the UK - it's none of their biz :-) Noisy!! Got two friends who lived out of the UK - the same happened with them, but they just gave "evidence" that they genuinely were not living in the UK and that blanked all other questions. There is no tax applicable.

Yea can see them trying the reduced health one! ;-) They can't be relied on for shit.

On the flip-side of the coin... when ya consider you can pay for healthcare in many countries and that is far cheaper than any EU (or US) stuff, it takes the value out of "free healthcare". Simple example, one US person who decided to move out of the US where he was used to paying stupid money for healthcare.. he needed an op and got this free here. There is no discussion about insurance and payment - if someone needs medical attention they get it - and without waiting in a queue :-) After that, he went and paid the full amount to cover his family of four. This cost him just under $250/year to include *all* healthcare, dentistry, scripts blah. He could not believe he could get this standard of healthcare for the money :-)

BTW.. Why the hell did you want to go back?? :-) I've never met anyone yet who wanted to go back to their home countries other than to see family for visits.


PS I remember doing an "audit" in a bar of a load of ex-pats and asking - who wants to eventually move back home? Hell.. there was silence and looking at each other thinking I was raving mad to even mention it!

The United States allows dual citizenship. Just don't volunteer for another countries army.



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SAme for canada.. just filled out taxz report.. and says on line xx "Did you have income over 100k outside of canada in this present year.." Y/N ...

so .. i guess just get debit cards and offshore accnts..

Also for canada a heaven is bahamas.. since our PM has a company there its only place left 100% sure..

Sea Land http://www.sealandgov.com/index.html

That's where SeaAnimals.com is based at from what my sources tell me..

Anyone know when the UK govt starts to look at tax and ask questions? What time of the year is the worst?!!??!?

You need to have a company and that company needs to have an adress. At least officially. You can cash the checks like whatever you want(gift,etc) and travel or stay at one place, thats up to you. No bank is going to ask you if you plan to pay taxes for the check they cash for you.

I'm sure this is not true, but regardless of that, you can't [legally] work without the appropriate Visa in Australia and the US (yes, even if you work out of a hotel room.. lol). But then again, who'd know. Not sure about Amsterdam.

For the US, this is true even if you have established your own corporation. Legally you can't be employed by it without work authorization!

And if you DO get work authorization in the US, you will have to shell out the taxes if you want to play by the rules. Otherwise it won't get renewed the year after.

start your own country
problem solved

These are the types of things you should be talking to a good lawyer about, if you're serious.

Principality of New Utopia

hell if you willing to move your stuff every 3months
go for it

Sure you can.

http://www.scamdog.com/pt/

Webby, do you have a link or info re these places?

Hi $5! - All offshore's are the same - give or take some detail and they don't have personal/corp taxes. This all really depends on one main factor and has more to do with your personal circumstances than anything - at least to do it legally:

That you are out of your home country and not under any tax obligations there while you are living elsewhere. This opens up a whole range of options (assuming you are not in US - which I don't think you are? *s*).
There are only four countries that have restrictions on citizens.. US, Saudi, Lybia, and... some other obscure place near the Balkans.

If you mean counties that may not be offshore's but have a geographical based tax system - examples are all Cento American countries and most of South America. If you live there and your income is dervied from international sources - ya don't pay tax on any funds brought into the country. But.. there may be some sales taxes locally on what you may buy - the usual 5% - 13% stuff on certain products.

There are loads of links on this on Google... but watch all these companies that have some sales pitch on selling something or office blocks full of lawyers - all they want is an increase in fees :-) But the info on their sites can be helpful and often detailed. There is a vast difference speaking with a real offshore lawyer and a boring old onshore lawyer who ain't got a clue! :-)

Stuff in.. eg "tax jurisdictions" and do a Google! :-)

you are typically liable for income taxes in your country of residence (your tax residence) on any income you earn, no matter where you live... so you might or might not owe taxes in those other countries depending on a few factors - 1) their tax laws and whether or not your income is taxable there under their law 2) whether or not your own country has a double taxation treaty with them (you might owe taxes in more than one country. 3) if your country has a foreign earned income exclusion similar to the US and XX,XXX.XX is tax exempt if you remain out of your home country for most of the year (usually almost the whole year)

"individual sovereignty"... nice

That kinda crap is appealing to a load of wannabees - but sure is plenty of it!!

Dumb question: Are you working there?

Yep, you can do that, but your moving and setup costs will outweigh your taxes by years end.

sorry.... but if you are a US citizen and you spend 3 months in Spain, 3 months in Holland, 3 months in Germany and 3 months in Iceland, you are still obligated to pay taxes in the US... and you better know the tax laws in the countries you are in, their residence laws and what agreements they have with the US, or you might owe taxes in that country AND the US. You might qualify for some exemption on PART of what you earned or up to 70,000.00 or so... but its incorrect to just say "yes, you can do that" without knowing his citizenship, his income, where he will be going, how long he will be there and so on.

its quite simple... use a competent, experienced attorney and LISTEN TO THEM.

i should have clarified that you are required as a US citizen to file taxes and report any income earned world wide as well as all accounts you control regardless of where you lived or traveled. i would assume that is common to most countries. you can lie about it... but that would be insanely stupid and irresponsible.

if anyone thinks that is a joke and you are thinking "oh... i'll just say...blah blah blah" then you are clueless as to how banks work today, how hard banks have came down on tax fraud/tax evasion and money laundering, what information is shared between countries and what information various "offshore havens" share with the IRS.

Fake Nick ain't from the US. This thread is almost pointless for US citizens for obvious reasons, but sure - ya got $70K allowances.

Interesting survey by the IRS about two years back. They took the effort to send out a "survey" to US folks living abroad. I can't remember the exact percentages, when asked whether they filed tax papers, something like... 20% responded, and 80% dumped it in the trash.

So.. what does the IRS do? They wait till that US citizen needs a passport renewed and then cross check it with IRS returns and, if they are none???? Ya got a problem with a valid passport. Nothing is sacred....

Rest assured... where there is a dime, no matter where in the middle of a jungle - the US IRS will want taxes for the fruit you eat off the trees there!

Tell that one to an offshore bank manager and he'd blow a fuse!

The last thing on this earth that an offshore bank has *any* interest in is discussing client accounts with some foreign tax collection agency which has nada jurisdiction.

It is a criminal offense in most jurisdictions to even discuss accounts.

But sure.. if there is drugs blah involved.. they will open up accounts.

You are not really correct. they share all information all the time when there is reason to believe a crime has been committed - which includes tax fraud/tax evasion (the frequent topic of conversation - although people don't realize thats what they are talking about with thier great ideas).

NO bank manager is going to tell you that they dont share information with other tax authorities. They do all the time. They don't do it as a matter of policy - like updating them once a month on your account status or something. But they do it. You have no privacy or security if you are not legal in your own jurisdiction and that jurisdiction where you are working or have accounts.

its precisely that "if there is drugs blah involved..." and that is the catch. ... and that LONG list of possible "blahs" that allow them to share information with the IRS or other tax authorities. anti terrorism laws, money laundering laws, banking laws, rules and regulations world wide have changed quite a bit in the last 3 years... there is no blanket protection as there was 20 years ago. its a brave new world today.

i hear a lot of conflicting stories about what you can and cannot do as well as what people i work with will and will not do. my experience is that credible banking institutions will never try to sell you on the idea that everything is confidential, "its illegal to share information" etc. That has nothing to do with banking laws and information sharing agreements between various countries.

what they want is that you conduct business legally and that you can explain everything. for the most part, if some suspicion exists as to the origins of funds, you/your company is being investigated for tax fraud and so on... they will turn everything they have over without question or delay to the IRS. It happens constantly. Look at Yukos or Aeroflot or any of the big companies in Russia that were doing a lot of business through Switzerland. Its not a problem for any tax authority to get that info if there is reason to believe there was tax fraud, money laundering etc etc etc. it happens everyday.

BTW webby, you seem to know quite a bit about some of this stuff. I am not trying to argue. I just hate seeing people ponder doing something extremely illegal and then getting bad advice here from a pack of monkeys who can barely tie their shoes, much less spell Tax Evasion or Money Laundering.

i am more trying to point out that there are serious issues and the questions and answers are not simple... and the consequences of working illegally whether you are aware of it or not and thinking you are successfully avoiding taxes.. can be severe.

everyone should talk to an experienced tax attorney about these issues. not experienced sig whores on a porn board.

Hi PP! - Yea.. hear you and you are correct!

For US folks this is one major problem and the only real "solution" is give up citizenship and live elsewhere.

For people like Nick - he is OK and can just setup an offshore corp and travel or live where he likes and use the OS corp jurisdiction as a base.

But.. underneath all this... all these words about "tax havens", "offshore", "perpetual travellers" and "lawyers" are really "amateur" stuff. Sure one of the first things that may sound appealing to those in high-tax countries is no or little taxes. But to people living in these countries it's normal and not even an issue :-) It takes time to get a straight head on this an acceptance that it is normal - took me fully six months and pissing off lawyers to re-confirm stuff was OK! :-)

There is definately an "on-shore" mentality and hell knows, - some "learned process" that puts up barriers and creates the concept that this is some very complex stuff. It's not :-) BUT.. agree with ya that sometimes people get some weirdo bullshit going about "offshore" and think they can just get a load of ATM cards and live in their home country and spend as they wish :-) That is dangerous!!!

Anyone that wants to be legally offshore - or anyplace else - needs to firstly, be out of their home country and not be under tax obligations there. If they then chose to live in some low or no tax jurisdiction - nada problem and they are free to travel as they wish (but not spending loads of time back in their home country!).

On "sharing of information" - You are talking about other countries/jurisdictions and they are not answerable to anyone, except their own banking ombudesman or regulatory authority. But... they do have a "know your customer" policy - common to most banks, even onshore. The "know your customer" policy does not mean anyone else apart from the bank knows the customer:-) I know a few bankers and under no circumstances would they dream of even acknowledging the existance of any bank account - nevermind discuss it with third parties. That only needs to happen once and the clientelle does not exist and the regulatory authority will close it down within the week and people may face jail time for disclosure.

An example of a "trusting bank" and how strict offshore banks can be! Some smartass ex-premier of an old Soviet country decides to depart his country and siphon off $750mill and send this to Bank of America, Wall Street. He then gets some kind person in the US diplomatic corp to get him a VISA so he can settle down in sunny California :-)

First.. Bank of America failed miserably on "know your customer" and this guy then instructs them to split this $750mill and send it to loads of banks worldwide which they do. $2.7 mill arrived in an offshore bank and, because it came from Bank of America they never looked too hard :-) Then... within the week, the regulatory authority were in there and shut the place down and distributed the funds back to their customers. $2.7mill is nada in banking terms - but, they failed to check :-)

The other factor is that the laws which apply are the laws of the jurisdiction, not the laws of any other country or it's tax rules. And.... taking that a step further, - since there are no tax laws (no taxes) - tax issues are not "offenses" in offshore areas. It is the client's responsibilty to handle his/her own affairs wherever he/she is and the confidentiality of people like offshore lawyers and bankers supercedes any crap tax affairs of another country.

But.. underneath all this stuff - if people are above board and "legal" - this just does not matter. I don't really care if some country has info on me - I ain't doing illegal stuff (but tis none of their biz anyway!) and it's not all about taxes - it's just a better lifestyle and less hassle :-)

This is too funny!!

I did notice that little subtlety!! Some folks just can't help it!!! They are too busy talking about shit they have never experienced in their lives! BUT - I'll try and be nice!!!!

And this.... "everyone should talk to an experienced tax attorney about these issues." Soooo USA!!! They need a lawyer to trim their toenails!!!! *lol*

it was not directed at you. i was just commenting on the general fact that people come here and ask questions about the federal crimes they are contemplating committing as if it is a joke... and then others giving advice when they have no idea what they are talking about.

a lot of what you are saying i disagree with. for example, just leaving your own country does not relieve you of your tax obligations to that country as a citizen of that country and so on. what you are saying might be true in terms of a company structure that has no reporting requirements to your own country if it was foreign owned and foreign controlled etc. that has nothing to do with individuals and personal income taxes.

but in general, i am more interested in learning and hearing opinions than debating. ;)

my advice is always the best... get professional advice. dont get international tax and legal advice from GFY.com.

Its true... I personally know 3 people that have done it. You need to leave the country for 180 days without comming back in.

HAHA, that was a good one. The laws here are kind of tough if you are not aware of them.

if you believe that, then you are really clueless. do you think the average person is familiar enough with the Internal Revenue Codes of the USA and should take it upon themselves to just do anything they want without fully understanding the issues and consequences? saying "hey man, get professional advice" seems pretty sensible to me. i mean, whether anyone wants to accept reality or not, we are talking about "big time, fuck you in the ass prisons" where each maximum penalty is going to be measured in decades... not hours or pennies.

you have to be legal at home
you have to be legal in the tax jurisdiction you are working. the two go hand in hand. i am not sure why you dont grasp that when you seem to grasp most other things. for example, i can't just say "ok, i live in the bahamas now... FUCK YOU USA". it does not work like that. I am still a US citizen and still required to report any income earned world wide and the only way i would not be taxed is if i met the tax requirements of that place i declared as my tax residence and they also had a double taxation treaty with the USA. A jurisdiction with zero income tax is not going to have a double taxation treaty with any western country.

I know the USA is not the center of the world, but the tax laws in the EU, ex-CIS and North America are very similar in these respects... so i know for a fact that you cannot just make blanket statements saying "you can do it" if you don't know all the facts and are not familar with all the tax laws fo both jurisdictions involved.