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Caligari

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#1

ICM (.XXX) Replies To Trademark Issue

07-20-2011, 09:43 AM

http://www.xbiz.com/news/136453
"The seven-page report, disseminated today, made clear that "the planned operations of the registry are lawful, non-discriminatory and in accord with ICANN policies."

The paper goes on to say that the ICM Registry can't be held liable for the registration of a domain name incorporating another party?s trademark."

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#2

07-20-2011, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Caligari

http://www.xbiz.com/news/136453
"The seven-page report, disseminated today, made clear that "the planned operations of the registry are lawful, non-discriminatory and in accord with ICANN policies."

The paper goes on to say that the ICM Registry can't be held liable for the registration of a domain name incorporating another party?s trademark."

Yeah unless you pay the extortio.... errr I mean exorbitant fee

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#3

07-20-2011, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by Crak_JMan

Yeah unless you pay the extortio.... errr I mean exorbitant fee

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#4

07-20-2011, 09:52 AM

Yeah, registrars have already gone through this fight.

Thing is, the lawyers know/knew this already. The press releases making the threats to sue, truly were nothing more than marketing/branding hype... and that is sad.

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#5

07-20-2011, 09:55 AM

the simple fact that they are holding TM's hostage for a fee shows they are operating differently than other registrars and are well aware that the majority of registrations are going to be violating trademarks.

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Caligari

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#6

07-20-2011, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by BlackCrayon

the simple fact that they are holding TM's hostage for a fee shows they are operating differently than other registrars and are well aware that the majority of registrations are going to be violating trademarks.

yes, seems to me like any good lawyer could nail them for extortion charges.

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#7

07-20-2011, 10:24 AM

The fact that they offer the trademark protection service for a fee means they are capable of protecting trademarks once they are aware of them.

I think ICM has real liabilities on this.
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#8

07-20-2011, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Caligari

....ICM Registry can't be held liable for the registration of a domain name incorporating another party?s trademark...

So the company that is going to be reselling our domian names with a XXX tld cannot be held liable?

Such bullshit.

This is extortion, plain and simple.

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Caligari

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#9

07-20-2011, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Jesus H Christ

We had this discussion a few weeks ago, as companies like Hustler and Manwin ride the hype. Besides, you can't nail them for extortion because the companies still have the option of using the sunrise period or simply NOT do anything.

As mentioned, ICM has been around for 10 years and the current tab is $25 million, spent. They ain't going to fold or just drop that kind of loss because the reward is just too great.

That's nice, but the one factor you keep ignoring is that a company like Hustler is going to either sue ICM for extortion regardless of the "sunrise period" or if some idiot decides to buy Hustler.XXX, Flynt Publications will simply sue the shit out of them for trademark infringement and the purchaser will have to fork over the domain name.

So either way ICM is up against a wall. Do you really think anyone in their right mind is going to do anything with hustler.xxx other than hustler?

So the end game will be that ICM loses big time on a shit load of trademarked domain names which will never be bought and/or used.

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#10

07-20-2011, 11:09 AM

I read the whole 6 pages and a paragraph. They really could have shortened it down to this

Personally, speaking for myself, that is how it came across "nanner nanner, you can't touch me!"
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#11

07-20-2011, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by TisMe

The fact that they offer the trademark protection service for a fee means they are capable of protecting trademarks once they are aware of them.

I think ICM has real liabilities on this.

Whether people like it or not, the registrar has zero liability for the domains that are registered through them. People can keep suing them but this has been through the courts many times already.

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#12

07-20-2011, 11:16 AM

i'm still saying the problem is not hustler.xxx - no one in his right mind will register that domain. and if so, it will be an easy deal for Hustlers lawyers.

the problem are domains that you put in loads of work to get them to the top - let's say bigboobs.com - and that you cannot trademark. as the owner of bigboobs.com you might feel the pressure to get the .xxx and in the worst case it can cost you a lot of money if you need to go into auction against someone who might own bigboobs.co.uk - even though that one has no relevance outside the UK

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Caligari

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#13

07-20-2011, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Jesus H Christ

As mentioned previously, Hustler and Manwin can sue ICM until the cows come home, but it would be highly unlikely they'll win. Besides, if they ran the risk and lost, floods of people would rush to buy .XXX domains. If they didn't sue and played Wack a Mole, ICM still keeps the reg fee's from the morons who tried to register Hustler or whatever.

Which is precisely the point- who in their right mind is going to register hustler.xxx?
this is the issue you seem to love to avoid.

No one is going to pay ICM money for a useless domain, and so once again ICM is left holding the bag on thousands of trademarked domains.

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#14

07-20-2011, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by TisMe

The fact that they offer the trademark protection service for a fee means they are capable of protecting trademarks once they are aware of them.

I think ICM has real liabilities on this.

Yep, the ICM acknowledges that they are aware of the fact that their system can be used to commit trademark infringement and that they have put the system in place to prevent this but that they'll assist anyone who wants to violate your TMs unless you pay the ICM an extortion fee.

Like I've said in every .xxx thread before: I am against the .xxx tld.
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#15

07-20-2011, 12:01 PM

I did not know GoDaddy or any other registrar offered an out like ICM is.
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#16

07-20-2011, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by u-Bob

Yep, the ICM acknowledges that they are aware of the fact that their system can be used to commit trademark infringement and that they have put the system in place to prevent this but that they'll assist anyone who wants to violate your TMs unless you pay the ICM an extortion fee.

Like I've said in every .xxx thread before: I am against the .xxx tld.

1) They have no liability simply because they acknowledge that a domain registrar can facilitate the infringement on someones trademark

2) They put in place a system to a TM holders benefit - which is optional

3) They are not liable in any way shape or form for the actions of the domain registrant, for which domains are actually registered through them and how those domains are used.

4) There are no legal requirements for them to actively police domain registrants and the use of all domains registered through them to verify that such use does not violate any laws, anywhere, worldwide.

5) As far as i know, the only time they can get into trouble is when they are benefiting from TM domains by parking them, redirecting traffic etc where they are then benefiting monetarily from the infringing domain.

Not liking ICM Registry is not liking gravity. Its here. .xxx is here. It's a fact of life. In the future .sex, .love, .chat, .porn, .fuck etc etc etc etc etc will be here too. So what? Big fucking deal. Focus on making money.

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Caligari

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#17

07-20-2011, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by Jesus H Christ

Seriously, I thought it was a rhetorical question? The answer, people who think they can hold the domain for ransom. You know the same BS Network Solutions pulled and later got paid holding the domains. Did you actually read the PDF?
Yes, yes they will because it's business. Their own attorneys will tell them to first try to settle instead of going to trial and risk losing.

are you stoned jesus? because if not you should be;)

for the last time, the very last time, there is no point in buying a trademarked domain if you are not the trademark holder.

Hustler has already said they wouldn't do anything with hustler.xxx, they simply don't want anyone else to use it, so if some idiot buys hustler.xxx and sits on it, what's the point?

the point would be that they are complete morons who want to A)buy a domain and spend hundreds, maybe thousands on it to do absolutely nothing with it. and B)face the wrath of Hustler, who, regardless of any trademark/domain precedent set will take Joe Blow to court and make his life miserable even if they do end up losing.

And ya know why?

They have big pockets with legal ammo to spare. Joe Blow does not.

So in the end ICM will lose untold millions on unbought trademarked domain names because only a fool would spend $$$ to buy something he will never be able to use or profit from.

and lastly as squealer just squealed, you have .porn, .fuck. .adult coming around the corner, so .xxx will just be another lame ass extension that some idiots invested 25 million in.

Last edited by Caligari; 07-20-2011, 12:10 PM.

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#18

07-20-2011, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by TheSquealer

1) They have no liability simply because they acknowledge that a domain registrar can facilitate the infringement on someones trademark

2) They put in place a system to a TM holders benefit - which is optional

3) They are not liable in any way shape or form for the actions of the domain registrant, for which domains are actually registered through them and how those domains are used.

4) There are no legal requirements for them to actively police domain registrants and the use of all domains registered through them to verify that such use does not violate any laws, anywhere, worldwide.

5) As far as i know, the only time they can get into trouble is when they are benefiting from TM domains by parking them, redirecting traffic etc where they are then benefiting monetarily from the infringing domain.

Not liking ICM Registry is not liking gravity. Its here. .xxx is here. It's a fact of life.

Let's say you pay for an account at netfirms and get a subdomain: SomeCompany.netfirms.com. And you set up a site pretending to be SomeCompany. And that SomeCompany finds out and contacts Netfirms, guess what will happen. Netfirms will be smart enough to shut down your site.

The ICM is just like Netfirms. They both sell subdomains. Netfirms sells them under their domain, netfirms.com. The ICM Registry sells them under their top level domain, .xxx.

In the future .sex, .love, .chat, .porn, .fuck etc etc etc etc etc will be here too. So what? Big fucking deal. Focus on making money.

I know and I'm looking forward to the arrival of .sex, .porn etc because the existence of those tld's will make it almost impossible for the ICM Registry to lobby to make .xxx mandatory.

Until then I'll keep expressing my anti-.xxx point of view in every thread about the ICM Registry because the ICM Registry has already shown that they'll (ab)use anything that isn't totally against them as a sign of support.
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#19

07-20-2011, 12:25 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong...but to protect my trademark, all I really need to do is get in touch with the registrar and have the domain handed over to me. No need to sue anybody. It's the dumbass that buys the domain name in the first place who loses the domain.

We used to do that all the time when idiots would buy one of our trademarked domains on another extension. It was always just an email and it was done. Have things now changed?

I don't see how it can be any different. That's what a registered trademark is for.

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TheSquealer

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#20

07-20-2011, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by u-Bob

The ICM is just like Netfirms. They both sell subdomains. Netfirms sells them under their domain, netfirms.com. The ICM Registry sells them under their top level domain, .xxx.

That's all fine and good. That has nothing to do with paying them to block the registration of TM domains.

You are really reaching to try to make a point. At the end of the day, its 100% fact that a domain registrar has zero liability for domains that are registered, the intent of the registrant, how those domains are eventually used and so on. They offer a service. If people don't want/need the service, people have no obligation to use it. A TM domain would be handled just as it is anywhere else. Lawyers send a menacing letter demanding the domain be turned over or they will be sued. That is no different than any other domain today. One single extension out of what?... 150? Why does it matter to anyone what ICM policies are? Is anyone getting their panties in a twist when someone registers mysexsite.lv?

At the end of the day, Manwin is simply cleaning up their image by pretending to take a popular stance. I didn't read their case, but it can't be based solely on ICM Registry "allowing" the registration of TM Domains because a registrar has no liability.

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#21

07-20-2011, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Robbie

Correct me if I'm wrong...but to protect my trademark, all I really need to do is get in touch with the registrar and have the domain handed over to me.

No, you have to contact the registrant which is why lawyers go to the registrant and demand the registrant transfer the domain. The registrar has no obligation to respond to you or to cooperate with you just because you are making demands. The registrar has no legal liability for domains registered through them and how they are used. Registrars get assloads of threats daily by people making all kinds of moronic threats and claims - if they respond at all, its out of courtesy, not necessity.

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Caligari

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#22

07-20-2011, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Jesus H Christ

Hey, if I was an idiot and bought Hustler.xxx and sat on it with NO legal recourse, then countries like Germany and Australia announced it's okay for Adults to now view porn only when channeled though .XXX. I'm almost certain I'd get a call to settle because I'd be blocking a potential market-share for Hustler.

do you have money invested in .xxx? it sounds like it because you are evading the truth which is now staring you in the proverbial face.

when .adult, .fuck and .whateverthefuck come along it will render .xxx useless as a potential mandatory tld so....sorry jesus but any money you might have invested was pretty much wasted.

okay, in reality it could never have been a mandatory tld anyways but i do like the fact that these other extensions coming up will render it irrelevant.

and that is 25 million right on down the drain

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#23

07-20-2011, 12:42 PM

fuck .xxx

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TheSquealer

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#24

07-20-2011, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Caligari

when .adult, .fuck and .whateverthefuck come along it will render .xxx useless as a potential mandatory tld so....sorry jesus but any money you might have invested was pretty much wasted.

How could it EVER be mandatory?

How you do put sex.com, sex.net, sex.org, sex.nu, sex.lv, sex.es etc etc etc etc etc etc on sex.xxx?

Answer... you can't.

How do you enforce such a thing without stomping all over the IP rights of people all over the planet?

Answer... you can't.

The whole "making it mandatory" thing was just a smokescreen to satisfy ICAAN requirements to demonstrate a need and support for the creation of a new TLD. it was NEVER a practical or reasonable idea or intended to become mandatory... but it worked.

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#25

07-20-2011, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by TheSquealer

How could it EVER be mandatory?

How you do put sex.com, sex.net, sex.org, sex.nu, sex.lv, sex.es etc etc etc etc etc etc on sex.xxx?

Answer... you can't.

How do you enforce such a thing without stomping all over the IP rights of people all over the planet?

Answer... you can't.

The whole "making it mandatory" thing was just a smokescreen to satisfy ICAAN requirements to demonstrate a need and support for the creation of a new TLD. it was NEVER a practical or reasonable idea or intended to become mandatory... but it worked.

WE know it can't be enforced and would create huge technical and financial nightmare for all involved, but that never stopped politicians from trying.

Laws are made by politicians who listens to lobbyists with big checkbooks. In the past 2 senators have already introduced legislation to make .xxx mandatory.
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#26

07-20-2011, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Robbie

Correct me if I'm wrong...but to protect my trademark, all I really need to do is get in touch with the registrar and have the domain handed over to me. No need to sue anybody. It's the dumbass that buys the domain name in the first place who loses the domain.

If someone is infringing on your trademark you need to open a case with ICAAN and it gets sent to arbitration. Last I checked it cost roughly $1600 to file a claim plus legal fee's.

I have never opened a case with ICAAN but have been on the receiving end when two very large adult companies came after me for domains, both cases I won and didn't cost me a penny. The companies who held the trademark had to pay ICAAN and their lawyers.

With that said I didn't go and buy the exact name, it wasn't far off and did include their name in the url.

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#27

07-20-2011, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by u-Bob

WE know it can't be enforced and would create huge technical and financial nightmare for all involved, but that never stopped politicians from trying.

Laws are made by politicians who listens to lobbyists with big checkbooks. In the past 2 senators have already introduced legislation to make .xxx mandatory.

explaining that "anything is possible" doesn't automatically mean "it is within reason for this to even happen"

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#28

07-20-2011, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Kenny B!

If someone is infringing on your trademark you need to open a case with ICAAN and it gets sent to arbitration. Last I checked it cost roughly $1600 to file a claim plus legal fee's.

I have never opened a case with ICAAN but have been on the receiving end when two very large adult companies came after me for domains, both cases I won and didn't cost me a penny. The companies who held the trademark had to pay ICAAN and their lawyers.

With that said I didn't go and buy the exact name, it wasn't far off and did include their name in the url.

That's fine except that you can also lose and be fucked. For example, the owner of musclemagazine.com (who is a total douche bag) offered the domain back to muscle magazine way back when (97' i think) and they told him they had no idea what a domain was and called him a geek and hung up on him. He then put a forum on it. A few years later, they demanded he turn over the domain and he told them to fuck off. They took it to the WIPO and lost. Had they just prepared a lawsuit and sent a demand letter, he would have turned it over. As it is, he still owns the domain and the entire world thinks HE is muscle magazine, he gets into all body building shows, all pro body builders know him, he gets endless product samples sent to him, clothes etc.

The threat or an actual civil suit is far more effective to protect a registered trademark where there is the added bonus/threat of statutory damages and legal costs. It depends on the situation of course, how deep everyone's pockets are, how determined each party is to fight to the end and so on.

Last edited by TheSquealer; 07-20-2011, 01:47 PM.

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#29

07-20-2011, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by TheSquealer

explaining that "anything is possible" doesn't automatically mean "it is within reason for this to even happen"

no, but we are dealing with an organization (the ICM rEgistry) that has a history full of lies and deceit and that now has a clear incentive to lobby to make .xxx mandatory.

Are they likely to succeed? no.
Should we sit back, relax and do nothing? hell no.
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#30

07-20-2011, 01:52 PM

haha.. looks like muscle magazine finally bought musclemagazine.com from him but they did take it to the WIPO and lost.

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#31

07-20-2011, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by u-Bob

no, but we are dealing with an organization (the ICM rEgistry) that has a history full of lies and deceit and that now has a clear incentive to lobby to make .xxx mandatory.

Are they likely to succeed? no.
Should we sit back, relax and do nothing? hell no.

This whole conversation is like saying "they're going to outlaw unicorn hunting if we don't act now"

It really does't matter.

No one has demonstrated how making this mandatory is even remotely possible. ANYONE can see at a glance that you can't put 150 domains on 150 different tlds, owned by citizens of 150 different countries on one domain. Obviously the USA cannot enforce this anywhere (but i'm sure there are no shortage of conspiracy theories). Obviously, it can't be done and protect everyone's IP rights world wide.

All the lies and deceit were to get to where they are today. To demonstrate both a need for the new .xxx tld and support. It was always just a smoke screen to get a new tld approved because otherwise, it wouldn't/couldn't have been approved by ICAAN.

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#32

07-20-2011, 02:07 PM

Because ICM wrote the script, and says "we can do anything we want and no one can sue us," then ofcourse thats the end of it, right? Balls! If that was the case, no one would be held liable for anything in this country.

Heres why .XXX's shake down will not hold up in court, regardless of what bullshit they put in the fine print. For the fact they're trying to extort legitimate businesses with no affiliation to pornography. They're saying, "either pay us, or we'll put erect dicks and hairy assholes using your trademark on our .XXX tld". What court in the United States is going to allow a pornographer to do this, to a non pornographic company?

.XXX lobby is trying to scare us into buying these worthless domains. Thats why those pro .XXX articles and news videos keep saying, "just pay the fee, its in your best interest". Remember, .XXX's goal is to "organize, monopolize and legitimise", all pornography on the internet, while kicking the majority of us out of the business.

Theres going to be more intimidating and scare tactics to get us to buy the garbage their selling. Launch date sales are very important for .XXX. Just wait em out, after a year or 2 after the .XXX release date, you'l have saved countless thousands of dollars and realized how full of shit .XXX was from the beginning.
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#33

07-20-2011, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Herd

Theres going to be more intimidating and scare tactics to get us to buy the garbage their selling. Launch date sales are very important for .XXX. Just wait em out, after a year or 2 after the .XXX release date, you'l have saved countless thousands of dollars and realized how full of shit .XXX was from the beginning.
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#34

07-20-2011, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Jesus H Christ

THEN WHY START A THREAD AND REPLY WITH SO MUCH CONCERN? Jesus Christ, didn't you turn into a fucking crybaby. There isn't any truth to evade because you can't have factual truth on a hypothetical scenaro.

Anyway, no I've not invested a dime nor will I.

hey no need to get all defensive because i shot your argument to hell, and btw YOU'RE Jesus Christ, not me;)

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#35

07-20-2011, 02:54 PM

i will support .xxx for big cash ))))

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#36

07-20-2011, 03:18 PM

ok but after all of that, is it going to be launch somedays or will be delay again and again ? Which I hope ..

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#37

07-20-2011, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Jesus H Christ

As mentioned previously, Hustler and Manwin can sue ICM until the cows come home, but it would be highly unlikely they'll win. Besides, if they ran the risk and lost, floods of people would rush to buy .XXX domains. If they didn't sue and played Wack a Mole, ICM still keeps the reg fee's from the morons who tried to register Hustler or whatever.

ICM profits from it, ICM allows it to happen, thus, they are the root cause of the problem. Sure, you can sue them.

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Robbie

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#38

07-20-2011, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Kenny B!

With that said I didn't go and buy the exact name, it wasn't far off and did include their name in the url.

We never paid anything to anybody to get our trademarked domains handed to us.
But then again, we never went after "close" names or typos. We went after the EXACT domain name being used with a different extension for the same exact purpose.

And that would be what I will do if anyone bothers going after my trademarks in .xxx

I could give a shit about typos and being "close". I'm talking about the exact domain name being used for the exact same purpose with a different extension.

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Caligari

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#39

07-20-2011, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Jesus H Christ

How funny. You started this thread with your concern about ICM trademark issues, just to end with, it all doesn't matter because of .adult, .fuck and .whateverthefuck come. In short, you owned yourself in your own thread. Then you have a meltdown and accused me of investing in ICM as you attention whore like a typical snooty Canadian twink.

So hey, whatever you got to tell yourself.. Oh, and by all means you can have the last word to salvage your ego.

Now Jesus, don't forget to take your meds.

The only thing I did was post a story from Xbiz and of course you had to come in with your same lame argument which I had to once again trounce which then sent you into a tizzy.

I suspect your frustration has something to do with that guy who recently rode his bike on water. But don't worry we know you accomplished that feat first;)

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#40

07-20-2011, 04:56 PM

Good Jesus good...let your butthurt flow like a river

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#41

07-20-2011, 05:04 PM

Summary:

1. Sure, you can sue ICM because some jerk registered a name with your mark. You can sue anyone for almost any reason!
2. You will lose.

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u-Bob

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#42

07-21-2011, 01:52 AM

Originally posted by Jesus H Christ

Let's break this down to a tangible to get a different perspective. I own an airport car rental agency and you fly in and swipe your CC and then go to the lot and drive off with a car and go rob a bank.

So I should be liable because I profited from the rental and the root cause of you robbing the bank because it was my car? So now all the bank managers want me to setup some type of function to screen out possible bank robbers?

What the ICM registry is saying is more like: "Look, pay us money or well rent out vehicles that look just like your armored trucks".
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#43

07-21-2011, 02:14 AM

50 anti-.xxx posts
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baddog

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#44

07-21-2011, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by u-Bob

What the ICM registry is saying is more like: "Look, pay us money or well rent out vehicles that look just like your armored trucks".

Idiotic.
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Grapesoda

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#45

07-21-2011, 07:34 AM

someone buy this domain for a hoot...

http://www.icmregistry.xxx/
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#46

07-21-2011, 07:46 AM

Liability for infringement, no, but making a business model out of trademark "protection"?

Imagine soon, when anyone can register extensions for a big one time fee and smaller yearly fees. Then they can all open up for domain registrations and meanwhile run the same pay-up business model.

Trademarks are already protected and it shouldn't be (is it?) legal for others to make further business out of that (except for laywers, lol). It should be blocked across ALL existing and upcoming extensions. For free.
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#47

07-21-2011, 07:51 AM

Thank you for clicking! Your click gave the value of
.6 bowls of food for rescued animals.

This can't be true dude.
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#48

07-21-2011, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by marlboroack

Thank you for clicking! Your click gave the value of
.6 bowls of food for rescued animals.

This can't be true dude.

Ohhh .6. So it's like 2 pieces of dog food.
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#49

07-21-2011, 08:04 AM

Last thing I remember trademark law and copyright law are the law.. Regardless of anything else. If you send them a DMCA or a C&D for having someone register your trade mark.. Since they ultimately control it.. just like a web hosting company in a DMCA complaint they will be held liable for compyright infringement.

Registrars are not above the law, they operate below it.. And theres no law that excludes them.

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#50

07-21-2011, 08:30 AM

After ICANN opened up the field, is it as big an issue, what happens when .porn comes out?

Probably everyone will keep using .com's

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