Another Reason To Never Use Video Secrets WL

[Failed]

Did you know when a customer signs up to your white label they are immediately offered free credits from Flirt4Free to lure them away from your white label and back onto the main site? I didn't, and I was even told in emails that this doesn't happen from a Video Secrets representative. In fact, I was specifically told white label customers will not be targeted by Flirt4Free emails.

It must just be an error that's been occurring for every account I've checked during the past month. So, I open up 2 more, and the very next day they are hit with emails offering 350 free credits to flirt4free.

So, while you're out there trying to brand your domain and build repeat and returning customers, they are actively and aggressively thwarting that effort by luring customers to the main site and away from your efforts.

[JFK]

interesting

[seeandsee]

Waiting to 2nd side story, and then i will judge

[AllAboutCams]

more drama i just can't handle this

[19teenporn]

Hmmmmmm, interedasting...

[CurrentlySober]

[stocktrader23]

Typical.

[Paul Markham]

When they need Vendzilla he's absent.

[Failed]

Waiting to 2nd side story, and then i will judge

I have screen shots of signup confirmation from my white label with an immediate offer from flirt4free the very next day. I have screen shots of older accounts that get a rare newsletter from my white label and then 10 emails offering free credits to my white label customers from flirt4free. I have all emails documented from VS and I.

I would love to here the 2nd side of their story too, why I was lied to, and anything else they have to say.

*Edit - But, I must be on ignore as I haven't heard back for a few days.

[Failed]

Just in case I get scolded again for bringing it to the boards, my reasons are quite simple:

1. All affiliates should know about this bullshit, because I'm sure they work just as hard at branding their domains and deserve much better.

2. All the replies I've received from VS have been outright lies.

3. I'm now not being responded to.

[Roald]

Can you post the screenshots please?

[Failed]

Can you post the screenshots please?

First 2 emails confirming my WL membership, next day Flirt4Free free credits:


Another account with 1 newsletter from my white label in a sea of Flirt4Free free credits:


Another account with all Flirt4Free credits and my white label unable to be found:


*Edit - These are not appearing for me...just me?

[Failed]

Links, just in case it's not just me.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/338/hotmailv.png/
http://imageshack.us/f/99/newaccount3.png/
http://imageshack.us/f/341/newaccount.png/

[arock10]

That is shady

[Adraco]

Admittedly it seems very shady!

[Klen]

Someone need to post Dirty F comic "suck my cock"which was used back in last big VS drama.

[BIGTYMER]

Fuck that's shady.

No links to pull since I already dropped them.

[BIGTYMER]

Is your ref code on the F4F email link?

[porno jew]

shady? i concur.

[ruff]

I would like to hear from Video Secrets about this.

[Failed]

Is your ref code on the F4F email link?

- They do appear in the Flirt4Free credit offers.
- They do not appear in the regular newsletters without free credits from both Flirt4Free and my white labels. Which is fine for the white labels, that's where they'll be going. But, for just Flirt4Free, it's another instances of bullshit. They explained this by saying the same account information can be used on Flirt4Free as on my white labels. But, how does a customer who receives a Flirt4Free newsletter understand that it's the same company as the white label and is willing to use the same information?

While it's good that my ref code appears in some of the Flirt4Free marketing emails, they are still luring customers off of the white label and denying that they do so.

[VS brad]

I think we traded some emails with you on this topic already. Just waking up here on the West Coast; will reply with a more thoughtful and specific response to your concerns in a couple of hours once I get to the office.

I appreciate the drama-fueled nature of GFY, but would rather get you accurate information instead of guessing here from my laptop at 6:46am.

Sincerely,

Brad

[Failed]

I think we traded some emails with you on this topic already. Just waking up here on the West Coast; will reply with a more thoughtful and specific response to your concerns in a couple of hours once I get to the office.

I appreciate the drama-fueled nature of GFY, but would rather get you accurate information instead of guessing here from my laptop at 6:46am.

Sincerely,

Brad

We did, and please review those emails where I was told:

"When users join through a white label they are set up to receive newsletters sent from the appropriate white label. Once this happens, they will not be targeted by emails from Flirt4Free. So users do NOT receive both from creating their account on your white label."

and then have a look at the screen shots provided.

[tonyparra]

I appreciate the drama-fueled nature of GFY

Sincerely,

Brad

O really

[MediumPimpin]

I can't believe people still push them at all.

[stocktrader23]

I think we traded some emails with you on this topic already. Just waking up here on the West Coast; will reply with a more thoughtful and specific response to your concerns in a couple of hours once I get to the office.

I appreciate the drama-fueled nature of GFY, but would rather get you accurate information instead of guessing here from my laptop at 6:46am.

Sincerely,

Brad

Yes, we're all just a bunch of drama whores. GFY started as a place to call out sponsors on their bullshit. I have a feeling you knew the answer to this before you posted but will wait patiently for you to get to your office to figure out this obvious misunderstanding.

[Sophie Delancey]

Interesting. We've been considering working with them for a project... I'll be very curious to see how this plays out. Stuff like F4F e-mails would be the last thing we'd want.

[VS brad]

Just got into the office to dig a little deeper into the original poster?s comments. All of the programmers are not in for a couple more hours but I can try to shed some light using the information I have:

1. I looked up the WL show in one of the screen shots and pulled all of the customers from the mailing list associated with that affiliate code.
   
2. 6 of the 7 records found are listed as the whitelabel and one of them (created February 2, 2011) is associated with Flirt 4 Free.
   
3. Currently our system does not update the user?s mailing list sitekey association if they create a new account via a whitelabel or vice versa if an existing record already exists.
   
4. The affiliate tracking logic works regardless of the domain used. If the customer is associated with your affiliate account they remain that way. I know that doesn?t address your branding concern, more on that below.

Listen, if there is a problem somewhere in the email logic I would love nothing more to fix it. We built our white label system in the interest of providing powerful tools to affiliates to extend their brands and create revenue.

I would kindly ask that you drop me an email (brad at vs dot com) and forward me a couple of those emails from your screenshots so that I can have the guys pull all of the log information when they get to the office. We can still discuss the situation here in this forum; I just need to have some more information.

We are not shying away from the issue you raised; if there is a problem somewhere in the logic it will be addressed but as it stands right now I can?t see the details. We have done a lot of work over the past 4-months to improve our mailing methodology in an effort to drive repeat business (which makes affiliates more money).

Sincerely,

Brad

[VS brad]

Yes, we're all just a bunch of drama whores. GFY started as a place to call out sponsors on their bullshit.

No, on the contrary while I'm not a frequent poster on here I have seen judge and jury pass judgment on a situation before all the facts are on the table. That's all. I'm here and happy to address the situation because I know that we certainly have not done anything nefarious or under-handed.

I have a feeling you knew the answer to this before you posted but will wait patiently for you to get to your office to figure out this obvious misunderstanding.

If I did I would have written it. I'm at the office now and have looked up what I can based on the OP's whitelabel information. Hopefully he will email me and I can have the team investigate further to everyone's satisfaction ... good, bad or indifferent for us.

Brad

[stocktrader23]

No, on the contrary while I'm not a frequent poster on here I have seen judge and jury pass judgment on a situation before all the facts are on the table. That's all. I'm here and happy to address the situation because I know that we certainly have not done anything nefarious or under-handed.



If I did I would have written it. I'm at the office now and have looked up what I can based on the OP's whitelabel information. Hopefully he will email me and I can have the team investigate further to everyone's satisfaction ... good, bad or indifferent for us.

Brad

Never mind me, but if I were OP I'd be pissed. The branding is kind of a big deal as well since that is the entire point of a white label, keeping your traffic in your control.

[VS brad]

Never mind me, but if I were OP I'd be pissed. The branding is kind of a big deal as well since that is the entire point of a white label, keeping your traffic in your control.

Yup, I agree 1000%. Supporting the separation in branding online, email and even with our customer service is something we take very seriously. Couple that with the segmentation of gay and straight + geo-filters and you have yourself a fun little punnet square of logic and rules on every level of the code.

We've invested thousands of hours over the years to make this work very well IMO. I can definitely see where the OP is coming from and shot him an email to get those emails forwarded so that we can help investigate.

Brad

[2intense]

welcome to video secrets

[Failed]

Just got into the office to dig a little deeper into the original poster?s comments. All of the programmers are not in for a couple more hours but I can try to shed some light using the information I have:

1. I looked up the WL show in one of the screen shots and pulled all of the customers from the mailing list associated with that affiliate code.
   
2. 6 of the 7 records found are listed as the whitelabel and one of them (created February 2, 2011) is associated with Flirt 4 Free.
   
3. Currently our system does not update the user?s mailing list sitekey association if they create a new account via a whitelabel or vice versa if an existing record already exists.
   
4. The affiliate tracking logic works regardless of the domain used. If the customer is associated with your affiliate account they remain that way. I know that doesn?t address your branding concern, more on that below.

Listen, if there is a problem somewhere in the email logic I would love nothing more to fix it. We built our white label system in the interest of providing powerful tools to affiliates to extend their brands and create revenue.

I would kindly ask that you drop me an email (brad at vs dot com) and forward me a couple of those emails from your screenshots so that I can have the guys pull all of the log information when they get to the office. We can still discuss the situation here in this forum; I just need to have some more information.

We are not shying away from the issue you raised; if there is a problem somewhere in the logic it will be addressed but as it stands right now I can?t see the details. We have done a lot of work over the past 4-months to improve our mailing methodology in an effort to drive repeat business (which makes affiliates more money).

Sincerely,

Brad

I made multiple accounts on all 3 of the white labels I have with you below, using different free email providers for each.

- CamBoysChat.com
- CamBoyToys.com
- CamGirlsSex.com

Never did I visit F4F or signup to anything but my white labels with the email addresses I used to test all 3 white labels. All the accounts that I made receive F4F marketing emails, all of them. The two newest accounts I made just to test the reply I received saying that you absolutely do not target white label customers with F4F emails. They both received F4F marketing emails in less than 24 hours from the white label sign up.

I will gladly forward all of the emails I received on this issue, dating back to the middle of January, and provide all of the screen shots I have. They contain the same information and quotes provided in this thread. I will go do that now.

[VS brad]

Never did I visit F4F or signup to anything but my white labels with the email addresses I used to test all 3 white labels. All the accounts that I made receive F4F marketing emails, all of them. The two newest accounts I made just to test the reply I received saying that you absolutely do not target white label customers with F4F emails. They both received F4F marketing emails in less than 24 hours from the white label sign up.

Yeah if that's the case that's not how the system is supposed to work.

I will gladly forward all of the emails I received on this issue, dating back to the middle of January, and provide all of the screen shots I have. They contain the same information and quotes provided in this thread. I will go do that now.

Got those emails, hit you back requesting forwards of the actual marketing emails you received not screen shots. Appreciate your help locating the information we can continue to dig into this.

As a stop-gap measure we have disabled the scripts that send marketing emails until this has been fully investigated. I still hope that there is no problem but if there is we don't want to exacerbate it.

Brad

[Failed]

Yeah if that's the case that's not how the system is supposed to work.



Got those emails, hit you back requesting forwards of the actual marketing emails you received not screen shots. Appreciate your help locating the information we can continue to dig into this.

As a stop-gap measure we have disabled the scripts that send marketing emails until this has been fully investigated. I still hope that there is no problem but if there is we don't want to exacerbate it.

Brad

In the process of doing that now.

[VS brad]

In the process of doing that now.

Thanks, I have to leave at 8:45am for about 1.5 hours for an appointment but will be back immediately after to continue digging. Our head billing programmer is in the office helping as well.

Brad

[Paul Markham]

It's the fault of a rogue programmer. OK we understand.

[alias]

I made multiple accounts on all 3 of the white labels I have with you below, using different free email providers for each.

- CamBoysChat.com
- CamBoyToys.com
- CamGirlsSex.com

Never did I visit F4F or signup to anything but my white labels with the email addresses I used to test all 3 white labels. All the accounts that I made receive F4F marketing emails, all of them. The two newest accounts I made just to test the reply I received saying that you absolutely do not target white label customers with F4F emails. They both received F4F marketing emails in less than 24 hours from the white label sign up.

I will gladly forward all of the emails I received on this issue, dating back to the middle of January, and provide all of the screen shots I have. They contain the same information and quotes provided in this thread. I will go do that now.

Nailed them, with proof too. Nice one.

[Failed]

I forwarded emails from the newest account that I made, the one that is pictured in the screen shot that shows registration confirmation and a F4F email less than 24 hours later. Right now I'm going through my account statistics and taking screen shots of them. They show users who signed up through my white label then make purchases on F4F, some on the same day. This appears to have been going on for a very long time and I will continue to gather evidence and continue to forward it. But, I suggest just having a look at my statistics.

[plsureking]

seems pretty simple to investigate. the lists are either separate or they are not. every whitelabel should have a separate mailing list and f4f should have its own list. if they dont, or they share a database, then you arent taking care of your white label affiliates. very simple to answer.
#

[Failed]

Christ, one guy signs up on my white label and an hour and 20 minutes later he's purchasing credits on F4F

[st0ned]

Thanks for bringing this to the boards Failed. I had planned to use them for a WL myself, just hadn't got around to it. Looks like I wont be doing that now.

[Failed]

Thanks for bringing this to the boards Failed. I had planned to use them for a WL myself, just hadn't got around to it. Looks like I wont be doing that now.

No problem. After looking at my stats, this has gone on for a very long time. I Failed as an affiliate for properly monitoring such things until recently. I'm in the process of moving the domains I currently have as white labels with them as well. Even though they have been providing steady monthly income and sales, it's the track record, the lies, and the gut feeling things like this will continue. Time to move on and take the pinch for a bit.

*Edit, actually wtf am I talking about, they are all F4F customers now, the income will stay the same, lol. I guess that's one positive from F4F emails, lol.

[candyflip]

Can't wait to see how they go about talking their way out of this one.

Always good entertainment around these parts.

[LeRoy]

Rogue email guy ;)

Fired!

[VS brad]

For those who like to cut to the chase: there was in fact a problem as the OP mentioned, we have fixed it and will only resume sending emails once it passes some additional QA + testing.

My parents taught me at a young age that when you fuck up; admit and address it. Looks like that rule applies in this case.

Description

We have four types of emails in our system: registration, triggered, automated and promotional. The first is obvious, triggered are based on user requests (like online notifications), automated are designed to get customers re-engaged with the products and the promotional emails give customers details on our discounts, etc.

In this case 3 out of 4 worked flawless, but an unhandled exception in the promo mailer logic was causing some white label customers to receive Flirt 4 Free branded emails because Flirt 4 Free is the default.

Details

1. Branding is of utmost priority for us and we sincerely apologize for disrupting the continuity of the white label branding in this case.
   
2. Sales tracking works regardless of domain or sitekey. We only email customers with accounts, so even in cases where the user saw a Flirt 4 Free branded email the original affiliate still received credit.

Going Forward

1. As stated, we?re fixing the programming issue and testing before re-activating. Our next promotional mailing is later this week and it will be fully ready by that time.
   
2. We?re going to reach out to the affected customers personally to work to address any branding confusion issues.

Our sincerest apologies that this happened. I?m happy that the sales tracking worked as designed, but very empathic to the issue of branding. We?ve worked hard to build a very solid white label system and obviously failed to achieve perfection in this case. Good lesson and one that we will certainly learn from in the future.

Internally we?re also going to make some changes. I think the Sales Department did what they were supposed to do in the correspondence with the OP; but we could and should have asked for more examples in that email exchange as it would have pointed the programmers directly to the problem (just as it did this morning). Another good lesson.


If anyone has any questions or follow-up concerns I will try to visit this thread later this afternoon and am available via email at brad at vs dot com and or you can call our office to speak with myself or Matt or Jeff in sales (818-880-9021).

Sincerely,

Brad

[Fat Panda]

I continue to operate a VS white label and continue to wonder why. Fuck me

[2intense]

for those who like to cut to the chase: There was in fact a problem as the op mentioned, we have fixed it and will only resume sending emails once it passes some additional qa + testing.

My parents taught me at a young age that when you fuck up; admit and address it. Looks like that rule applies in this case.

description

we have four types of emails in our system: Registration, triggered, automated and promotional. The first is obvious, triggered are based on user requests (like online notifications), automated are designed to get customers re-engaged with the products and the promotional emails give customers details on our discounts, etc.

In this case 3 out of 4 worked flawless, but an unhandled exception in the promo mailer logic was causing some white label customers to receive flirt 4 free branded emails because flirt 4 free is the default.

details

1. branding is of utmost priority for us and we sincerely apologize for disrupting the continuity of the white label branding in this case.
   
2. sales tracking works regardless of domain or sitekey. We only email customers with accounts, so even in cases where the user saw a flirt 4 free branded email the original affiliate still received credit.

going forward

1. as stated, we?re fixing the programming issue and testing before re-activating. Our next promotional mailing is later this week and it will be fully ready by that time.
   
2. we?re going to reach out to the affected customers personally to work to address any branding confusion issues.

our sincerest apologies that this happened. I?m happy that the sales tracking worked as designed, but very empathic to the issue of branding. We?ve worked hard to build a very solid white label system and obviously failed to achieve perfection in this case. Good lesson and one that we will certainly learn from in the future.

Internally we?re also going to make some changes. I think the sales department did what they were supposed to do in the correspondence with the op; but we could and should have asked for more examples in that email exchange as it would have pointed the programmers directly to the problem (just as it did this morning). Another good lesson.


If anyone has any questions or follow-up concerns i will try to visit this thread later this afternoon and am available via email at brad at vs dot com and or you can call our office to speak with myself or matt or jeff in sales (818-880-9021).

Sincerely,

brad

bs......................:321gfy

[Failed]

For those who like to cut to the chase: there was in fact a problem as the OP mentioned, we have fixed it and will only resume sending emails once it passes some additional QA + testing.

My parents taught me at a young age that when you fuck up; admit and address it. Looks like that rule applies in this case.

Description

We have four types of emails in our system: registration, triggered, automated and promotional. The first is obvious, triggered are based on user requests (like online notifications), automated are designed to get customers re-engaged with the products and the promotional emails give customers details on our discounts, etc.

In this case 3 out of 4 worked flawless, but an unhandled exception in the promo mailer logic was causing some white label customers to receive Flirt 4 Free branded emails because Flirt 4 Free is the default.

Details

1. Branding is of utmost priority for us and we sincerely apologize for disrupting the continuity of the white label branding in this case.
   
2. Sales tracking works regardless of domain or sitekey. We only email customers with accounts, so even in cases where the user saw a Flirt 4 Free branded email the original affiliate still received credit.

Going Forward

1. As stated, we?re fixing the programming issue and testing before re-activating. Our next promotional mailing is later this week and it will be fully ready by that time.
   
2. We?re going to reach out to the affected customers personally to work to address any branding confusion issues.

Our sincerest apologies that this happened. I?m happy that the sales tracking worked as designed, but very empathic to the issue of branding. We?ve worked hard to build a very solid white label system and obviously failed to achieve perfection in this case. Good lesson and one that we will certainly learn from in the future.

Internally we?re also going to make some changes. I think the Sales Department did what they were supposed to do in the correspondence with the OP; but we could and should have asked for more examples in that email exchange as it would have pointed the programmers directly to the problem (just as it did this morning). Another good lesson.


If anyone has any questions or follow-up concerns I will try to visit this thread later this afternoon and am available via email at brad at vs dot com and or you can call our office to speak with myself or Matt or Jeff in sales (818-880-9021).

Sincerely,

Brad

My email is what first pointed this out, not the years of white label customers buying F4F credits within a few hours or days from signing up to the white label? Seriously, take a look at the stats in my account. I don't have the emails to prove it going years back, but you tell me why a customer would sign up on my white label and then buy from F4F within hours or a few days?

[JosephFM]

I wonder if this happens with other whitelabel cam sponsors also. Gotta go start testing them i guess.