If tubes like pornhub are so great for sponsors then why are sites still closing?

[Three.Thousand]

Not having to test, compare or measure results properly is just plain stupid.
Regardless of how slim the chance is that you are wrong, is worth testing. It might just make you even more money.

Testing and optimizing should be high priority in any business.

[Colmike9]

Not having to test, compare or measure results properly is just plain stupid.
Regardless of how slim the chance is that you are wrong, is worth testing. It might just make you even more money.

Testing and optimizing should be high priority in any business.

Definitely

Except I mentioned that but apparently we're supposed to already know what sells:

But.. Isn't that what tests are for?..

(Find what works and repeat the shit out of it)

No it's what real knowledge of what works is for.

[signupdamnit]

I don't see why people feel they have to make nasty personal attacks when discussing this stuff.

I still think based on my own experiences and the numbers I see from others the average paysite can expect about a 1% ctr, 1:2000-1:2500 conversions raw, and under 250,000 tube views per day since the views are said to taper off with time. This would equate to approximately one sale every day or two depending on the exact numbers.

I don't doubt Ruseful's honesty although I do question whether his claim that 95% of the traffic hitting his site is due to tubes is true as he seems to believe it is. I also am skeptical that he has received no special treatment whatsoever given his connection to some of these tube operators. Likewise I don't doubt Robbie or Nautilus's numbers or honesty either. I know neither of them tend to bullshit about things and they are straight shooters.

I would love to see more experiences from other independent pay site owners. Especially those who do not have a stake in promoting the tube model or encouraging other content owners to freely supply their full content to these tube sites. Is there anyone here who was struggling previously who saw this thread and decided to submit some videos and is seeing an amazing return from it with 5-10 sales a day already? Let's hear some experiences. Just make sure to click the first link in my sig at least before you go overboard submitting all your content without running a test. I wouldn't want to be responsible for ruining your business should it not work out after you submit half your member's area and your affiliate sales decline 50% within the next three months.

[porno jew]

except for a few exceptions you are only going to hear from the ones who failed. do you think if someone has found a winning formula they are going to share it and increase their competition and advantage in a very competitive market?

in one sense adult is becoming more like mainstream where it is accepted you don't out your marketing techniques and outing others can get you banned on certain boards.

[signupdamnit]

except for a few exceptions you are only going to hear from the ones who failed. do you think if someone has found a winning formula they are going to share it and increase their competition and advantage in a very competitive market?

in one sense adult is becoming more like mainstream where it is accepted you don't out your marketing techniques and outing others can get you banned on certain boards.

Maybe but Ruseful didn't mind sharing. Neither did Warchild. At the same time there is going to be a little pressure not to say something which goes against the so-called big boys of adult like Manwin. Some people who have not done well might be intimidated into not speaking for fear of some sort of retaliation.

Please though in the interests of science share a bit.

[ThePornTubeGuy]

Ruseful.

I see what you're trying to do here. Trying to get tons of free content on your Tube sites from the sponsors who frequent here. That's not the best approach if your figures are right. Here's a much better and more professional one.

There are 100s of offline DVD companies who are struggling, due to online porn. They never got how to market online. In the past they were scared that coming online would hurt their offline business. Today they have little of that left.

However they do have vast libraries of back catalogue movies of all descriptions. Some in sure fire convertible niches and ranging across all niches. Contact them and do a deal or even buy the online license for their content. Choose what you know will work, edit it the way you know works, promote it the way you know works and get all the traffic coming to your sites.

Hi Paul, Ruseful are just telling you how they are doing it right. Of course they are a big supporter of the tubes, they are owned by me and I was one of the main guys that launched YouPorn and subsequently sold to Manwin last year. I am now part of the exceptional team running PornTube, 4Tube and Fux.

A lot of those DVD companies you talk about already approached me over the years and I already bought their better dvd's. Thats why I know how much of a hassle it is for that whole process to work. It boils down to getting them edited by above standard editors who understand the tube user. Its a major hassle and very time consuming, and its all with older, normally burnt content. For those dvd guys though, I recommend they speak to Stan at Adult Centro, and have their content put online at the Adult Market Place. Thats where a lot of people are buying content right now ;)

For me, and the tubes I am now part of now, (in my signature), its far better for me to educate the content owners via the guide I wrote and from publicising our CPP here on GFY and also at the trade shows where I speak on panels, than go buy dvd's and have that huge overhead of getting them tube ready. The PornTube Content Publishing Platform Guide is the first of its type and has been received really well. When content owners reach out to us, we do actually take the time to help them. We would look at what they have, if they have tried uploading to the tubes before and if so, where they failed. We take a lot into account, and I have vast experiance in this area with the 2,000 sites we handled in the YouPorn program.

If appropriate, we will manage a tube campaign for them, but this involves serious commitment from their side. They need to commit to a certain amount of clips. These need to be tube specific clips and I will have the editors who edit the clips for DaneJones and Lesbea look over these. We will help them with their watermarks, with their promo tools. We then have our contacts at all of the other major tubes prepare for the individual campaign. This involves having them correctly schedule the release of the clips, in certain order, on certain days. We also optimise the banners that you receive under the video players. We help title the clips, suggest keywords and make sure the clips are correctly tagged. This is normally a 60 day process that is provided by PornTube COMPLETELY FREE.

What do we gain? What do all the tubes gain that are contributing to the campaign we are running? A new Content Publisher who we can rely on getting the best possible tube specific longer fulfilling clips to our tubes. Everyone wins.

But as your previous post stated, the content obviously has to be up to a certain standard.

[Robbie]

I'm digging this new vocabulary of giving everything away! LOL!

New word for me "Content Publisher"
Translation: The guy doing all the work to give it away for free to bring in traffic to a tube site and make them a fortune.

Heh-heh-heh

[ilnjscb]

Ruseful.

I see what you're trying to do here. Trying to get tons of free content on your Tube sites from the sponsors who frequent here. That's not the best approach if your figures are right. Here's a much better and more professional one.

There are 100s of offline DVD companies who are struggling, due to online porn. They never got how to market online. In the past they were scared that coming online would hurt their offline business. Today they have little of that left.

However they do have vast libraries of back catalogue movies of all descriptions. Some in sure fire convertible niches and ranging across all niches. Contact them and do a deal or even buy the online license for their content. Choose what you know will work, edit it the way you know works, promote it the way you know works and get all the traffic coming to your sites.



No need to share anything of your powerful resource that you say is doing so well. With stats like these, imagine how much better things would be with more quality content and the added benefit of more content on the Tube and no need to share everything. Of course you can also share it, but no need to.

Paul, I have to say Ruseful came on here and gave us stats and backed it all up. Yes their stuff is good (and so is yours) but what they are doing is real.

I imagine it, like so many things in life, is like a Mexican taco stand. If it has one bulb, and a grimy shitty glass covering, and horrid beige psuedo-meat, you do not buy the tacos. If it mimics in any way decent hygiene and pleasing appearance you may indeed buy from it it despite the fact that it is STILL A MEXICAN TACO STAND.

A more succinct way to say the above is: better products sell better

I'm not sure that will ever change, and I can't see how we pin that on the tubes. It pre-dates them by 11,000 years.

However, the other adage is: Location, Location, Location

Tubes are now the primary point of entry. If you are still selling great soup at the train station you are not getting the right customers for your great soup and you'll eventually fail as a business. You have to move to where the folks who want great soup are, and you have to do it before you lose all your capital.

This is what I'm taking away. You need good product and you need to be where the buyers are. The other day I saw a vending machine selling bottled water right next to a water fountain. Despite the free water, people were still buying branded water. Another day I took the New Jersey Turnpike (toll), it was filled with cars though there are several ways to go around it. I don't know, it happens.

If I could pinpoint why some do and some don't sell, I'd be tooooooootally rich.

I'll tell you, though, I make mediocre content, if even that. So I'll test the top 10 for a few months and let you know.

These tube guys are SMART. The way they write, easily, quickly, and convincingly, without extraneous emotion - the way they execute, their results. Look at Dave at Pimproll. Everyone said, "how can you pay 9.5m for a domain". There are numerous examples of their acumen.

I think they have the foresight to know that if all the content producers die off they'll have nothing. Porn users don't like old shit. They need new content. Porn.com has 95,000 clips. Youporn has 150,000. xHamster has 300,000. Xvideos has an astonishing 850,000 clips. There are maybe 2m clips out there. 75% of them probably blow chunks. 1% might be really good. Nobody can control all 100 million jack offs a day. Like Robbie, they go where their dong tells them. The tube game winners will be the ones who make sure their content guys are happy, and not just a few privileged creators. They are vulnerable to disruption and loyalty is destroyed by a mouse-click. They need good content. Need.

[ThePornTubeGuy]

Paul, I have to say Ruseful came on here and gave us stats and backed it all up. Yes their stuff is good (and so is yours) but what they are doing is real.

I imagine it, like so many things in life, is like a Mexican taco stand. If it has one bulb, and a grimy shitty glass covering, and horrid beige psuedo-meat, you do not buy the tacos. If it mimics in any way decent hygiene and pleasing appearance you may indeed buy from it it despite the fact that it is STILL A MEXICAN TACO STAND.

A more succinct way to say the above is: better products sell better

I'm not sure that will ever change, and I can't see how we pin that on the tubes. It pre-dates them by 11,000 years.

However, the other adage is: Location, Location, Location

Tubes are now the primary point of entry. If you are still selling great soup at the train station you are not getting the right customers for your great soup and you'll eventually fail as a business. You have to move to where the folks who want great soup are, and you have to do it before you lose all your capital.

This is what I'm taking away. You need good product and you need to be where the buyers are. The other day I saw a vending machine selling bottled water right next to a water fountain. Despite the free water, people were still buying branded water. Another day I took the New Jersey Turnpike (toll), it was filled with cars though there are several ways to go around it. I don't know, it happens.

If I could pinpoint why some do and some don't sell, I'd be tooooooootally rich.

I'll tell you, though, I make mediocre content, if even that. So I'll test the top 10 for a few months and let you know.

These tube guys are SMART. The way they write, easily, quickly, and convincingly, without extraneous emotion - the way they execute, their results. Look at Dave at Pimproll. Everyone said, "how can you pay 9.5m for a domain". There are numerous examples of their acumen.

I think they have the foresight to know that if all the content producers die off they'll have nothing. Porn users don't like old shit. They need new content. Porn.com has 95,000 clips. Youporn has 150,000. xHamster has 300,000. Xvideos has an astonishing 850,000 clips. There are maybe 2m clips out there. 75% of them probably blow chunks. 1% might be really good. Nobody can control all 100 million jack offs a day. Like Robbie, they go where their dong tells them. The tube game winners will be the ones who make sure their content guys are happy, and not just a few privileged creators. They are vulnerable to disruption and loyalty is destroyed by a mouse-click. They need good content. Need.

Quite possibly the best post I have read for a very long time.

[Far-L]

I don't see why people feel they have to make nasty personal attacks when discussing this stuff.

I still think based on my own experiences and the numbers I see from others the average paysite can expect about a 1% ctr, 1:2000-1:2500 conversions raw, and under 250,000 tube views per day since the views are said to taper off with time. This would equate to approximately one sale every day or two depending on the exact numbers.

I don't doubt Ruseful's honesty although I do question whether his claim that 95% of the traffic hitting his site is due to tubes is true as he seems to believe it is. I also am skeptical that he has received no special treatment whatsoever given his connection to some of these tube operators. Likewise I don't doubt Robbie or Nautilus's numbers or honesty either. I know neither of them tend to bullshit about things and they are straight shooters.

I would love to see more experiences from other independent pay site owners. Especially those who do not have a stake in promoting the tube model or encouraging other content owners to freely supply their full content to these tube sites. Is there anyone here who was struggling previously who saw this thread and decided to submit some videos and is seeing an amazing return from it with 5-10 sales a day already? Let's hear some experiences. Just make sure to click the first link in my sig at least before you go overboard submitting all your content without running a test. I wouldn't want to be responsible for ruining your business should it not work out after you submit half your member's area and your affiliate sales decline 50% within the next three months.

We started with 1/10,000 to 1/25,000 on the major tubes when we started working them. We split tested the clips, the creatives, the text, every single aspect of each ad zone etc. Now we are consistently under 1/1000 on most, though not all. Do I blame the tube if the ratios are not averaging better? No. We are still trying to find the "recipe" for success on those that don't do as well and feel it is our job to find what works because it is our content and our sites we are trying to sell.

There are some clips that do well across the board. There are some tubes that have great communities to tap into as well. There are some that we still do crappy numbers on although even 1/2500 is still a vast improvement over 1/25000...

Our average retention on those is over 4 months. The type ins are even better for retention. We still juggle the high ctr/shitty conversions vs low ctr/highly branded strong conversions balls, trying always to get better ctr/great conversions - that is where tracking and A/B testing are so critical to success.

Do we have other traffic that converts way better? Sure, we are under 1/30 on the majority of review sites - but no where near the volume of traffic and therefore much less brand exposure so there is always a trade off.

Why doubt Ruseful? He has been very straightforward and it isn't like he is sucking up to anyone for affiliates, and he has been clear that his sites are merit based just like everyone else that submits as well.

Everyone is out there wondering "where are all the whale affiliates?" The major tubes are obviously where the traffic is so what is so bad about working with them as affiliates? I just don't get why people, especially people that used tgps as partners in its heydey, have an issue - people could just as easily jerk off to that content for free as well. (and still do... tgps still send sign ups too last time I looked)

The reason I never had the "they stole my content" issue with tubes is because every tube we ever saw our content on took it down with proper - meaning polite too - notice and were willing to work with us to avoid future issues. That is not "sucking up". That is called doing business.

[Roald]

Many sites are closing cause people are lazy or don't have a clue about what they are doing. For years selling memberships was easy. Now it's not that easy anymore.

Downloading the porntube guide can help you but only if you are willing to work for it. The golden era is not there anymore so we got to step up a little and work for it.

I don't doubt the stats mentioned, I know my brother is working the tubes and he and his company are doing a damn fine job at it.

[Barry-xlovecam]

So, is has détente been reached yet?

The only thing I seriously see coming of this is the further commodizing of the resulting traffic for sale.

[Paul Markham]

Not having to test, compare or measure results properly is just plain stupid.
Regardless of how slim the chance is that you are wrong, is worth testing. It might just make you even more money.

Testing and optimizing should be high priority in any business.

A top expert tests to hone his results. A guy without a clue, is groping around in the dark. Testing will never replace knowledge.

I'm digging this new vocabulary of giving everything away! LOL!

New word for me "Content Publisher"
Translation: The guy doing all the work to give it away for free to bring in traffic to a tube site and make them a fortune.

Heh-heh-heh

Exactly what I thought. ThePornTubeGuy's reply was basically BS. Taking 90% of what online porn producer shoot and teaching them to edit. Is like teaching a kid how to cook a sponge using sawdust. Most online porn producers simply don't have the raw goods. They can only cut a 20 minute scene in half and give a Tube more free porn. Teaching them to edit, take time out to edit and submit to a Tube on a promise of traffic.

The problem with the offline DVD people is they rarely talk deals. They want hard facts. Walk onto a stand at a show an offer them $1,000 a scene for the Internet only rights on content over say 4 years old and a load will snap your hand off. In fact some will give someone 5 scenes for that money. But it requires money up front. A lot know what brokering via content providers makes. In fact offer them online only content in exchange for offline and I got a 1 of mine to 5 of theirs deal. I did that with all the hardcore scenes we shot.

Teaching an in house editor is a lot easier, still it requires money.

I was looking at their stats and reading what they say they're doing. It would seem money isn't the problem. not as cheap as getting others to edit and submit for free though. I turned away from that avenue when I saw their contract.

[signupdamnit]

We started with 1/10,000 to 1/25,000 on the major tubes when we started working them. We split tested the clips, the creatives, the text, every single aspect of each ad zone etc. Now we are consistently under 1/1000 on most, though not all. Do I blame the tube if the ratios are not averaging better? No. We are still trying to find the "recipe" for success on those that don't do as well and feel it is our job to find what works because it is our content and our sites we are trying to sell.

There are some clips that do well across the board. There are some tubes that have great communities to tap into as well. There are some that we still do crappy numbers on although even 1/2500 is still a vast improvement over 1/25000...

Our average retention on those is over 4 months. The type ins are even better for retention. We still juggle the high ctr/shitty conversions vs low ctr/highly branded strong conversions balls, trying always to get better ctr/great conversions - that is where tracking and A/B testing are so critical to success.

Do we have other traffic that converts way better? Sure, we are under 1/30 on the majority of review sites - but no where near the volume of traffic and therefore much less brand exposure so there is always a trade off.

Why doubt Ruseful? He has been very straightforward and it isn't like he is sucking up to anyone for affiliates, and he has been clear that his sites are merit based just like everyone else that submits as well.

Everyone is out there wondering "where are all the whale affiliates?" The major tubes are obviously where the traffic is so what is so bad about working with them as affiliates? I just don't get why people, especially people that used tgps as partners in its heydey, have an issue - people could just as easily jerk off to that content for free as well. (and still do... tgps still send sign ups too last time I looked)

The reason I never had the "they stole my content" issue with tubes is because every tube we ever saw our content on took it down with proper - meaning polite too - notice and were willing to work with us to avoid future issues. That is not "sucking up". That is called doing business.

As I said I don't doubt Ruseful's honesty. I only doubt whether his interpretation of his stats is accurate. Saying that over 95% of the traffic hitting his sites is due to tube campaigns is an extraordinary claim as is a 3% ctr and 1:833 ratio from such tube sites which are loaded with pirated full scenes from every niche.

From the second link in my sig http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportu...ost#Evaluation At times there can be a hidden cost for a given action. If the cost seems negligible at first it might create the illusion that there is no cost to an action which appears to generate a gain. BUT there may actually be a great cost there which you are not considering and which will not become apparent until later down the road. This is a part of Business and Economics 101. I learned it in freshman year.

The first link in my sig breaks this all down ina different way but I will summarize it again. As you give out more content eiter full scene or near full scene the natural consequence is that less people who view the content will end up buying it. (Does anyone dispute this so far?)

There are two primary concerns related to this:

1. Direct marketing effect (Non tube related). As your content becomes more saturated on the large tubes this should decrease your ctr and worsen your conversion ratios to some degree. The effect will likely compound as more of your content is given out freely and time goes on. In this way your existing non-tube campaigns now have a diminishing return. These were sales you would have had before. Now an opportunity cost.

2. Affiliate sales effect (Non tube related, those without full scenes). Just like with #1 the same thing will happen. But in addition to this many of your affiliates will likely see the worsening ctr and conversions rates and will decide to stop promoting you in favor of your competitors who now convert better for them. They gain nothing from your tube campaign. They only lose. I know usually when I see a lot of a sponsor's content all over tubes I pull links because in almost every case their conversions became much worse for me. Worse yet some of your former affiliates will likely eventually be pushed out of business and you will lose some partners. These were people who were pushing you in the past for perhaps years and some may have been fairly reliable partners. One might be tempted to say so what. "Fuck the affiliates" but you don't know what conditions are going to be like one or two years out. Maybe the tubes you rely on will decide to push other sponsors instead. Maybe they will open their own sites and kick you out. Maybe there will be a government crackdown. Maybe as affiliates disappear they become so saturated with competitors that your campaigns will do 1/10th of what they did before. Now what will you do? Submit 10-50 times the content?

If you are smart you will want to make sure these hidden opportunity costs do not exceed any perceived gains from your tube campaigns. Make sure you are aware of and are not underestimating the possible negative effect of throwing out a significant amount of content freely in highly visible places. Ruseful by his own admission claims he basically started with nothing for direct and affiliate sales. He says 95% of the hits to his pages are due to tubes (I find that hard to believe but he seems to really believe this). That's a very different case than an established site which does over a million dollars in sales and has a large affiliate base.

[DamianJ]

A top expert tests to hone his results.

But you've always said testing is a waste of time and you just know if it works or not?

I'm confused about this u-turn Paulie?

[ThePornTubeGuy]

A top expert tests to hone his results. A guy without a clue, is groping around in the dark. Testing will never replace knowledge.



Exactly what I thought. ThePornTubeGuy's reply was basically BS. Taking 90% of what online porn producer shoot and teaching them to edit. Is like teaching a kid how to cook a sponge using sawdust. Most online porn producers simply don't have the raw goods. They can only cut a 20 minute scene in half and give a Tube more free porn. Teaching them to edit, take time out to edit and submit to a Tube on a promise of traffic.

Hi Paul, none of my posts contain the BS you refer too, All I have done is talk facts and looked to help those who want it. I actually have agreed with you in all your posts, specifically re the 90% who produce the sawdust. Even in my last reply to you, I finished with agreeing with you saying: But as your previous post stated, the content obviously has to be up to a certain standard.

So I don't quite know where your little outburst came from

[ThePornTubeGuy]

As I said I don't doubt Ruseful's honesty. I only doubt whether his interpretation of his stats is accurate. Saying that over 95% of the traffic hitting his sites is due to tube campaigns is an extraordinary claim as is a 3% ctr and 1:833 ratio from such tube sites which are loaded with pirated full scenes from every niche.

You'll find that Ruseful is saying that he gets a 1% average CTR from his promotional banners/texts on the tubes he uploads too. The additional 2% is derived from direct type ins from the same exposure on the tubes. This is the 3% traffic he gets, NOT 3% CTR on his promotional banners.

A major factor you may be overlooking is that please don't forget, some smaller tubes (thousands of them) rip the best performing content from the main tubes each and every day, so with strategically placed watermarks, and pre rolls and post rolls on their videos, they actually get significantly more exposure than they can account for. This is a big part of the 2% that they refer too as direct type ins. Hope that clears up where the 3% comes from that they refer too.

[Paul Markham]

A more succinct way to say the above is: better products sell better

I'm not sure that will ever change, and I can't see how we pin that on the tubes. It pre-dates them by 11,000 years.

I was saying that here 10 years ago and that's when the haters started hating. They don't like the truth. The problem is simply budgets. If you can afford it the quality content is there to be had. There are loads of offline shooters who will turn out movies of the quality of Orgasm.xxx. but not for $2,000 a scene. Anyone who wishes to question that need only hit me up on ICQ for a list of shooters.

However, the other adage is: Location, Location, Location

Is a Tube site the best place to sell quality porn today? If so, the money isn't there. Or ThePornTubeGuy wouldn't be asking people who don't have the raw product to edit, to do it for free.

I have been inside a lot of websites shot by people who are lauded here. These guys are simply not good enough. They shoot hardcore dull porn that all blends into one. The scenes all start to look the same and follow the same format time after time. No comedy, no closure, no reason for the fucking, and the girls mouthing the same sound bites over and over again. No matter how clever a person is with the latest equipment, the vital skill in porn isn't camera's, lighting, etc.

It's the shooter seeing the fantasy in his head and getting the model to perform as he needs. We sell fantasy. If we can produce it.

The biggest sex organ is the brain.

It's not "I would fuck her". It's "Would she fuck me?"

[signupdamnit]

You'll find that Ruseful is saying that he gets a 1% average CTR from his promotional banners/texts on the tubes he uploads too. The additional 2% is derived from direct type ins from the same exposure on the tubes. This is the 3% traffic he gets, NOT 3% CTR on his promotional banners.

I understand that. I only went ahead and put the additional type-ins he claimed and figured them in as the ctr to make things simple. One thought if type-ins are really that high as the result of a watermark then affiliates are really getting screwed though, aren't they? 1% actual ctr and 2% type-ins. That would mean the affiliate is getting credit for roughly 33% of the sales they actually drive assuming tracking is otherwise perfect. But I guess this is subject to what you state below when looking at numbers.

A major factor you may be overlooking is that please don't forget, some smaller tubes (thousands of them) rip the best performing content from the main tubes each and every day, so with strategically placed watermarks, and pre rolls and post rolls on their videos, they actually get significantly more exposure than they can account for. This is a big part of the 2% that they refer too as direct type ins. Hope that clears up where the 3% comes from that they refer too.

That is significant. I'm not sure whether it is a pro or con though as this means the majority of those scraper tubes will not be showing the pay site's banners or links as the original tube might. You will be fully relying on the watermark to drive type-ins or perhaps pre or post rolls should they be included somehow on these other sites.

The typical legal tube usually has two banners and a link or two in addition to the existing watermarks. Presumably the effective ctr will be 3-4 times what it would be with tube where you are relying on watermarks to drive traffic. Plus the legal tube likely has a significantly better conversion ratio due to less full scenes. This might tie in with "2. Affiliate sales effect" in my previous post.

[porno jew]

there is some great info in here with real world experience and stats to back it up.

on the other side we have wall of text theorizing on why that can't really be possible.

educational thread for sure. in more ways than one.

[Paul Markham]

Hi Paul, none of my posts contain the BS you refer too, All I have done is talk facts and looked to help those who want it. I actually have agreed with you in all your posts, specifically re the 90% who produce the sawdust. Even in my last reply to you, I finished with agreeing with you saying: But as your previous post stated, the content obviously has to be up to a certain standard.

So I don't quite know where your little outburst came from

Because, I suspect, you will let anyone submit to your tube. Knowing they are not one of the 10%. So you're prepared to take the 90%ers content knowing they won't make the grade.

However with offline DVD producers. You go to the people who can supply the raw product and in niches you need.

There's no shortage of great porn to acquire, just a shortage of people who can afford it.

[DamianJ]

It's not "I would fuck her". It's "Would she fuck me?"

And the answer is always, always no, unless you pay her money.

As you learned from that nasty business with your ex assistant.

[signupdamnit]

there is some great info in here with real world experience and stats to back it up.

on the other side we have wall of text theorizing on why that can't really be possible.

educational thread for sure. in more ways than one.

I've seen both sides provide experiences. Thus far it has seemed about 50-50 as far as experiences go. As I said I would be curious to see what others see. Especially people who are more independent.

[Ruseful]

https://www.youporn.com/watch/770922...-be-porn-star/

This is a FakeAgent clip that we put on YouPorn just today. Its had 350k views already in around 18 hours, very high rated (93%) and has 6 great comments. The clip is 12 minutes 4 seconds long. Has a great pre roll, great post roll and watermarked very well, so it is easily identifiable on the tubes.

http://www.youporn.com/partner/fake-agent/2265/views/
This link will show we had over 80 videos online on YouPorn since mid January and have had around 50million views.

When that clip is ripped from Youporn by users and placed in their profiles on other tubes or ripped by the other tubes, yes, some may remove the watermark, but most do not bother removing the pre roll and post roll parts of the video, so the FakeAgent clip remains branded, and attracts direct type ins.

This traffic is GOLDEN, its affiliate free, but you can't account from where its coming from, but no complaints of course.

[Three.Thousand]

Testing will never replace knowledge.

My testing and tracking will prove what works best. Your knowledge, will only forfeit your right to complain about falling ratios.

[porno jew]

I've seen both sides provide experiences. Thus far it has seemed about 50-50 as far as experiences go. As I said I would be curious to see what others see. Especially people who are more independent.

if someone knows how to work the tubes, tells you exactly how to do it and shows you stats and screenshots to back it up and one still writes wall of texts on why it is not possible i guess there is no hope for some.

adapt or die in it's purest sense.

[Ruseful]

I understand that. I only went ahead and put the additional type-ins he claimed and figured them in as the ctr to make things simple. One thought if type-ins are really that high as the result of a watermark then affiliates are really getting screwed though, aren't they? 1% actual ctr and 2% type-ins. That would mean the affiliate is getting credit for roughly 33% of the sales they actually drive assuming tracking is otherwise perfect. But I guess this is subject to what you state below when looking at numbers.



That is significant. I'm not sure whether it is a pro or con though as this means the majority of those scraper tubes will not be showing the pay site's banners or links as the original tube might. You will be fully relying on the watermark to drive type-ins or perhaps pre or post rolls should they be included somehow on these other sites.

The typical legal tube usually has two banners and a link or two in addition to the existing watermarks. Presumably the effective ctr will be 3-4 times what it would be with tube where you are relying on watermarks to drive traffic. Plus the legal tube likely has a significantly better conversion ratio due to less full scenes. This might tie in with "2. Affiliate sales effect" in my previous post.

Here is a screen grab from GA for the last 30 days on Orgasms.xxx
You'll see the sheer amount of direct type in traffic that I am continually referring too.
Reason for edit was to post the actual image, not just the link

[Trend]

Quite possibly the best post I have read for a very long time.

Off topic but ... Did you guys start out in 2002 with paysites?

[ThePornTubeGuy]

Off topic but ... Did you guys start out in 2002 with paysites?

If you are asking me personally, then no. We started YouPorn late August 2006 and sold in May 2012. I launched my first pay site in July 2011. I own the network that has Casting.xxx and FakeAgent, Lesbea, DaneJones and Orgasms.xxx

I joined the team at Dreamstar Cash in Jan 2012 and we run PornTube, 4Tube and Fux

[DamianJ]

My testing and tracking will prove what works best. Your knowledge, will only forfeit your right to complain about falling ratios.

oh, as they say, snap.

[DamianJ]

Here is a screen grab from GA

Paul doesn't have GA installed. Seriously, he doesn't. Check the source on astral-blue.com

You might want to talk him through the image you posted.

[Far-L]

if someone knows how to work the tubes, tells you exactly how to do it and shows you stats and screenshots to back it up and one still writes wall of texts on why it is not possible i guess there is no hope for some.

adapt or die in it's purest sense.

You can lead a webmaster to traffic but you can't make him think, or so the saying goes...

[Trend]

If you are asking me personally, then no. We started YouPorn late August 2006 and sold in May 2012. I launched my first pay site in July 2011. I own the network that has Casting.xxx and FakeAgent, Lesbea, DaneJones and Orgasms.xxx

I joined the team at Dreamstar Cash in Jan 2012 and we run PornTube, 4Tube and Fux

Gotcha .. I wasn't sure if you were the "owner" of Dreamstar Cash or not. For some reason I thought "Dreamstar Cash" started out with Paysites in 2002-2005-ish.

[signupdamnit]

You can lead a webmaster to traffic but you can't make him think, or so the saying goes...

By all means think for yourself. Don't let someone else think for you and don't forget that little thing we call common sense.

[Far-L]

By all means think for yourself. Don't let someone else think for you and don't forget that little thing we call common sense.

While not entirely Markham rant free, you have still generated the most intelligent debate/discussion on tubes here yet so kudos to you.

[signupdamnit]

If you are asking me personally, then no. We started YouPorn late August 2006 and sold in May 2012. I launched my first pay site in July 2011. I own the network that has Casting.xxx and FakeAgent, Lesbea, DaneJones and Orgasms.xxx

I joined the team at Dreamstar Cash in Jan 2012 and we run PornTube, 4Tube and Fux

So Ruseful is your employee?

[ThePornTubeGuy]

Gotcha .. I wasn't sure if you were the "owner" of Dreamstar Cash or not. For some reason I thought "Dreamstar Cash" started out with Paysites in 2002-2005-ish.

The guy that owns Dreamstar Cash is a young guy known as Coolness69. He started Gals4Free back in the day and then 4Tube and now he has PornTube. We always kept a close eye on him when we had YouPorn and was impressed with what he did. When he approached me to get involved, it was a no brainer. He has everything in place for me to build another YouPorn and thats what excites me, not running my own pay site network, (I have a great CEO to do that . Its an impressive company he has built, you should keep an eye on us!

[ThePornTubeGuy]

So Ruseful is your employee?

No, I own Ruseful and the pay sites. I have a CEO that runs that company. We employ 10 people and growing. We have another editor starting in May for example.

I am now part of PornTube looking to build another YouPorn

Pre starting at YouPorn in 2006, I was a dog breeder.

[ThePornTubeGuy]

While not entirely Markham rant free, you have still generated the most intelligent debate/discussion on tubes here yet so kudos to you.

I second that, well done.

[Robbie]

Not having to test, compare or measure results properly is just plain stupid.
Regardless of how slim the chance is that you are wrong, is worth testing. It might just make you even more money.

Testing and optimizing should be high priority in any business.

I do test things when promoting niches that I'm not an expert at. I'm all for making an extra dollar.

But when it comes to the niches that I AM an expert at? I pretty much know exactly what my target audience wants. I write it, shoot it, produce it, edit it, and even shoot the still pics. Every second of the video is designed to entertain guys who love big titties.

I shoot every video with the trailer in mind. And each of our little productions has a storyline that has a definite beginning, middle, and ending.

That's why the tour sells so good. It IS a tube: http://claudia-marie.com/tour/

That's what I meant about not needing to "test" what I am already really, really good at doing (giving big tit fans what they want).

Now as an affiliate...I'm always willing and able to learn what sells other niches to their potential customers.
But again...I think the guys who truly love what they produce are the experts and know exactly what their audience wants. So I defer to their knowledge.

And that's what I meant about testing and following what my cock tells me.

[Kroy]

I can confirm that the numbers Ruseful and JT (ThePornTubeGuy) offer up here are realistic, and the advice is extremely valuable.
This thread has more useful and actionable information than most anything you have read or will read on GFY or any other board if traffic and growing your brand online is your concern.

[Three.Thousand]

I do test things when promoting niches that I'm not an expert at. I'm all for making an extra dollar.

But when it comes to the niches that I AM an expert at? I pretty much know exactly what my target audience wants. I write it, shoot it, produce it, edit it, and even shoot the still pics. Every second of the video is designed to entertain guys who love big titties.

I shoot every video with the trailer in mind. And each of our little productions has a storyline that has a definite beginning, middle, and ending.

That's why the tour sells so good.

That's what I meant about not needing to "test" what I am already really, really good at doing (giving big tit fans what they want).

Now as an affiliate...I'm always willing and able to learn what sells other niches to their potential customers.
But again...I think the guys who truly love what they produce are the experts and know exactly what their audience wants. So I defer to their knowledge.

And that's what I meant about testing and following what my cock tells me.

No one questioned your content and skills there, but what does your knowledge say about CTA, tour CTR, text elements, colours, layouts of tours, join pages.... all that plus more needs testing, if not, you might be leaving money on the table. Every aspect of the business needs constant attention, not only the product. Optimize product, optimize selling, minimize costs, maximize profit.

[Robbie]

No one questioned your content and skills there, but what does your knowledge say about CTA, tour CTR, text elements, colours, layouts of tours, join pages.... all that plus more needs testing, if not, you might be leaving money on the table. Every aspect of the business needs constant attention, not only the product. Optimize product, optimize selling, minimize costs, maximize profit.

I was the first paysite to have a tube tour. I generally try to stay ahead of the pack in innovation and ideas for marketing. Honestly though...it's way more about what you shoot and knowledge of the niche than it is about colors and layouts.

We all have seen some of the most amateur shitty looking (to us) tours outsell some of the most polished, tested, and analyzed tours.

The key is knowing what your audience is looking for. You could say I've been "testing" that all my life.

[thehand]

Great thread and interesting views on the tubes and the sales a content owner does or does not make.

An intro on my background. My name is JT and I was a founding Partner/Director of YouPorn.com from late 2006 until we sold to Manwin in May 2011. My role was Director of Business Development and I was responsible for monetizing the traffic which we grew to 370m monthly visitors. We grew this traffic via word of mouth by giving a better user experience than your competition, we didn't buy any traffic. That great user experiance was founded primarily on the content. Without great content, the visitors to your tube disappear.

This made us launch the first ever Content Publishing Program in early 2007. We knew from our data that if we promoted the publisher of the video that the user was watching, with an affiliated banner under the video player, that a % of our free users would click through to their website. Then it was down to the sponsor to convert these visitors into paying members. Naughty America and CDGirls were the first publishers to work with us and give us licensed tube clips in return for our traffic. They both recorded in excess of 3,000 new members to their sites that month. Upon sale to Manwin, we handled over 2,000 brands in our YouPorn Content Publishing Program, and we were one of the largest affiliates on the planet.

We had huge amounts of data at our disposal regarding customer behaviour and the types of content they liked and what length of clip this needed to be. We knew that certain clips performed significantly better than others when they contained a beginning, middle and an end to the clip. We had without doubt the most revolutionary algorithms ever used on a tube which enabled us to deliver a "related" and "recommended to you" section (amongst other things) to each and every user. This enabled us to get YouPorn to over 110million daily page impressions and an average time on site per visit of just over 10 minutes. As the recent extremetech article reports, YouPorn accounts for around 2% of the daily internet traffic.

But none of this is possible without the best content. We embarked on a huge content buying spree that started in 2007 and we ended up spending millions of dollars over the years licensing all niches of content to have this edited into tube specific clips and to give this out for free to our users. Of course, we used to release some full scenes too, but mainly, tube specific clips that we had edited. We also worked closely with many of the publishers, advising them on how to edit clips, what length they should be etc etc. Of course, in 2007, we were hard pushed to get 3 min edits from our publishers. We then started pushing for 5 min edits and then 7 min edits. Now the optimum length of a clip to be giving to the tubes is 10 minutes. Those that listen to us, make bank. Look at BackRoomCastingCouch, one of the most successful pay sites ever to utilise the tube traffic. At one point, BackRoomCastingCouch was the 2nd most searched for keyword on YouPorn, and we handled over 650m searches a month!

Fast forward to today and I am doing it all over again at PornTube.com. You will not be surprised to hear that we have built THE BEST Content Publishing Platform in the market place today. We have many features such as multiple upload, upload by CSV, clip scheduler (so YOU remain in control of when your clips go live) and and in depth stats panel for you to see the stats for each individual clip. We have also released a PornTube Content Publishing Program Guide that gives you an insight into the mind of a tube user and "How to sell a membership to someone who consumes porn for free". You can download this by clicking the link in my signature.

We really are here to help you make the most of the millions of eyeballs at your disposal every day, and not just on PornTube. We have embarked on several successful tube campaigns for Content Publishers too, where we work closely with the other major tubes to make sure you are best positioned to expose your brand to millions of users and potential new members each day. So please reach out to us for details.

Directly after the sale of YouPorn, I decided to put everything I preached into practice, so, for the record, I also own the production company Really Useful Ltd. I have the sites Orgasms.xxx (launched 7 months ago) Casting.xxx (8 months ago) DaneJones.com FakeAgent.com and Lesbea.com (all 3 months ago) with a further 6 sites currently in production, with a whole network of sites planned for 2013 onwards. All content is exclusive to my network, we shoot all content ourselves and have an in house team of some of the best editors in the game. We have even just hired someone who's sole purpose is to upload our content to the tubes, all day, every day.

90% of my traffic is tube related (click thrus and the "golden" direct type ins) and I am doing on average 200-220 new sign ups/rebills a day and growing each month. With CCBill (main biller) I have an average transaction value of $31 USD (I do not run $1 promos) and under 0.3% CB ratio. Not surprisingly, the average length of my tube specific edited clips are 10 mins, they have a beginning, middle and an ending, and we put our newest and best content online. Quite simply, we can not shoot content quick enough to put it on the tubes for free. We are also nailing it on the VOD's too.

So, you can see that I come from both sides of the industry and have considerable experience with both. Please download the PornTube Content Publishing Platform Guide to find out more. (and to find out how you can get ALL of your traffic from PornTube affiliate link free, meaning you keep 100% of all the sales we make for you!).

Please shoot me an email: tim at vivid.com

[Robbie]

You know what? It's been a while since I tried out Pornhub and found it sucked.

ThePornTubeGuy...I'm going to give it a shot and see if what you are saying is true.

[Far-L]

I was the first paysite to have a tube tour. I generally try to stay ahead of the pack in innovation and ideas for marketing. Honestly though...it's way more about what you shoot and knowledge of the niche than it is about colors and layouts.

We all have seen some of the most amateur shitty looking (to us) tours outsell some of the most polished, tested, and analyzed tours.

The key is knowing what your audience is looking for. You could say I've been "testing" that all my life.

Our testing shows that the craptastically amateurish ugly ass graphic works one place but the polished amateur (one that you and I would probably both agree looks not even amateur) works in another. There is no rhyme or reason to it and hunches about what or why have only been like pissing off a windy balcony with a blindfold on to try and hit the toilet bowl 40 floors below.

Only testing, testing, testing can help in circumstances like that. With all due respect, I don't care how good anyone's hunches, instincts, knowledge, experience is - that is only going to become evident through thourough testing.

[Paul Markham]

https://www.youporn.com/watch/770922...-be-porn-star/

This is a FakeAgent clip that we put on YouPorn just today. Its had 350k views already in around 18 hours, very high rated (93%) and has 6 great comments. The clip is 12 minutes 4 seconds long. Has a great pre roll, great post roll and watermarked very well, so it is easily identifiable on the tubes.

http://www.youporn.com/partner/fake-agent/2265/views/
This link will show we had over 80 videos online on YouPorn since mid January and have had around 50million views.

When that clip is ripped from Youporn by users and placed in their profiles on other tubes or ripped by the other tubes, yes, some may remove the watermark, but most do not bother removing the pre roll and post roll parts of the video, so the FakeAgent clip remains branded, and attracts direct type ins.

This traffic is GOLDEN, its affiliate free, but you can't account from where its coming from, but no complaints of course.

This is 10%ers content. Anyone with this type of content and the ability to copy you can do the same as you. Then they can post their results and I will not be in the least surprised if they match or even exceed yours.

there is some great info in here with real world experience and stats to back it up.

on the other side we have wall of text theorizing on why that can't really be possible.

educational thread for sure. in more ways than one.

I'm not theorising. I'm backing up what Ruseful is saying and offering a few ideas. The education is clear. If you have the right content you can duplicate these results. Do you have this level content to hand?

If you don't, hit me up and I will tell you how to get it for free and not from a sponsor. Content you will own the license for.

I've seen both sides provide experiences. Thus far it has seemed about 50-50 as far as experiences go. As I said I would be curious to see what others see. Especially people who are more independent.

Agreed. It would be great if Tim 2 Vivid, Jel, PJ, DamianJ with the 3wayscash content, etc. Were to do exactly the same and post the results. Getting people or the level of Bluebird, Evil Angel, VCA, Caballero, etc. and posting their results would be absolute gold.

Anyone who wants to know how to legally acquire good level content free can hit me up. I'm not talking Rev Share. Straight deal

You can lead a webmaster to traffic but you can't make him think, or so the saying goes...

You can lead a surfer to content but you can't make him buy, or so history tells us...........

[ThePornTubeGuy]

I can confirm that the numbers Ruseful and JT (ThePornTubeGuy) offer up here are realistic, and the advice is extremely valuable.
This thread has more useful and actionable information than most anything you have read or will read on GFY or any other board if traffic and growing your brand online is your concern.

Thanks Kroy. You guys nailed it from the very first BackRoomCastingCouch video you edited for the tubes. Kudos to you man.

[ThePornTubeGuy]

You know what? It's been a while since I tried out Pornhub and found it sucked.

ThePornTubeGuy...I'm going to give it a shot and see if what you are saying is true.

Hey Robbie, hit me up at jt at porntube dot com and we'll help you every step of the way with a managed tube campaign.

[ThePornTubeGuy]

You know what? It's been a while since I tried out Pornhub and found it sucked.

ThePornTubeGuy...I'm going to give it a shot and see if what you are saying is true.

A quick note: A managed campaign involves putting you on all of the major tubes. Thats a big part of a successful tube experience for any brand, not picking just 2 or 3 tubes, you are likely to fail! You need to be on a lot of tubes!! I have pulled all the major tubes together on this and we all work like a dream with a PornTube Managed Campaign.

email jt at PornTube for details!!