Model's ID .... worthless?? - GoFuckYourself.com

xxxdesign-net · 02-11-2003, 11:39 AM

I recently bought some content... but the provider didnt want to give me a copy of the model's ID for privacy reasons, etc...

But when you think about it... unless you get the original.... scan copy, or photocopy are pretty much worthless....
There's nothing easier then to modify the birth date in photoshop then scan it....

So you might buy some content thinking that the girl is 18, it says so on her ID.... while in fact... she only was 17....

gothweb · 02-11-2003, 11:40 AM

Sure is hard to work with people you don't trust.

AaronM · 02-11-2003, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net
I recently bought some content... but the provider didnt want to give me a copy of the model's ID for privacy reasons, etc...

But when you think about it... unless you get the original.... scan copy, or photocopy are pretty much worthless....
There's nothing easier then to modify the birth date in photoshop then scan it....

So you might buy some content thinking that the girl is 18, it says so on her ID.... while in fact... she only was 17....

Exactly.

We just had a conversation about this the other day that you may want to review.

http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...hreadid=106258

Ross · 02-11-2003, 11:46 AM

Seems strange to me as to why someone would keep some important info like that from you.........

AaronM · 02-11-2003, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ross
Seems strange to me as to why someone would keep some important info like that from you.........

Did you see the thread last week where the webmaster posted the girls ID in his gallery?

Go read the other thread I mentioned.

machineg · 02-11-2003, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

Did you see the thread last week where the webmaster posted the girls ID in his gallery?

Go read the other thread I mentioned.

you aren't joking are you ?
( Ill read the other thread now )

I would fucking kill someone if stephs ID was floating around .

Ross · 02-11-2003, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

Did you see the thread last week where the webmaster posted the girls ID in his gallery?

Go read the other thread I mentioned.

sorry no I didn't read it

url please?

SquarePants · 02-11-2003, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

Exactly.

We just had a conversation about this the other day that you may want to review.

http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...hreadid=106258

Thanks!

Great thread. But still sounds like this is all new territory in regard to what a person should expect or will get when purchasing content.

xxxdesign-net · 02-11-2003, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

Did you see the thread last week where the webmaster posted the girls ID in his gallery?

Go read the other thread I mentioned.

Yes thanks, interesting thread....
Also, I talked about modifying the birth date... But I Could EASILY make a completely bogus ID card of any girl with a photo (facing the camera, white background)...(but even the background color could be modified....)
And of course, is there something easier to fake then a photocopy of a model release....

So the bottom line is... model IDs , release... not worth much... Trust in your content provider is everything... and if he goes out of business... I would suggest to take off questionable photos of your site....

But by the way.... If I buy a stolen car.... without knowing it... will I be accused of theft...? Nope.... they will seize my car.... but no criminal charge will be brought against me....
If I have absolutely no way of knowing whether that girl is 17 or 18.... because IDs can be falsified.... why would I suddenly be considered a criminal....???

AaronM · 02-11-2003, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by machineg

you aren't joking are you ?
( Ill read the other thread now )

I would fucking kill someone if stephs ID was floating around .

No joke.

http://www5.smutserver.com/teen/beth.../index157.html

Ross · 02-11-2003, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

No joke.

http://www5.smutserver.com/teen/beth.../index157.html

Fuck my bad!

oh well I take back what I said earlier then!

AaronM · 02-11-2003, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xxxdesign-net

Yes thanks, interesting thread....
Also, I talked about modifying the birth date... But I Could EASILY make a completely bogus ID card of any girl with a photo (facing the camera, white background)...(but even the background color could be modified....)
And of course, is there something easier to fake then a photocopy of a model release....

So the bottom line is... model IDs , release... not worth much... Trust in your content provider is everything... and if he goes out of business... I would suggest to take off questionable photos of your site....

But by the way.... If I buy a stolen car.... without knowing it... will I be accused of theft...? Nope.... they will seize my car.... but no criminal charge will be brought against me....
If I have absolutely no way of knowing whether that girl is 17 or 18.... because IDs can be falsified.... why would I suddenly be considered a criminal....???

You raise some very valid points and I agree with all of them.

The answer to your last question is coveed in the other thread. You are not responsible and would not be considered a criminal under current law....However....As you also mention...If you question her age, take it down.

Also, if you provider is in the US then I would go after him. If he closes his doors that is fine but he still needs to maintain his records for 5 years.

Kimmykim · 02-11-2003, 12:27 PM

If you are buying content from people you suspect to be committing criminal fraud, that would pose the question of why are you buying from them?

I think your fears are a bit unfounded.

Claudia · 02-11-2003, 12:29 PM

Why don't you ask the content provider for a letter which he declares to you that all models are over 18 at the time of the shoot and that he is willing to show the models records in case any governmental institution requires the papers.

(sorry for my bad english) but I have been given statements like that to tv people who also wanted ID's..

I did not want to give those out because I did not want others to have our models contact info...

They agreed to it....

Just a thought...

AaronM · 02-11-2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
If you are buying content from people you suspect to be committing criminal fraud, that would pose the question of why are you buying from them?

I think your fears are a bit unfounded.

Amen.

Give me a hug Kimmy. I need one.

AaronM · 02-11-2003, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Claudia
Why don't you ask the content provider for a letter which he declares to you that all models are over 18 at the time of the shoot and that he is willing to show the models records in case any governmental institution requires the papers.

(sorry for my bad english) but I have been given statements like that to tv people who also wanted ID's..

I did not want to give those out because I did not want others to have our models contact info...

They agreed to it....

Just a thought...

Ummmm...It's called a license agreement and it is standard with any reputable content provider.

SquarePants · 02-11-2003, 12:59 PM

So AaronM, what is the best thing to ask for if you are a content buyer in the US.

Should we have certian expectaions on what comes with the content. Better question, in your opnion, what should we get to CYA?? (serious question)

goBigtime · 02-11-2003, 01:10 PM

I think the content providers should have enough sense to black out or censor certain information on ID's & model releases (like lic#, phone/address etc) but should expect to give this information to their clients to have on file -- in the event they are someday unreachable.

As I recall, Matrix Content gives clients model ID's (properly censored of course) and I think copies of the release form... not sure on that.

This is better for the clients than to have to say to the feds: "We bought our content from XYZ Content... their offices are at this location".. because if the feds can't get ahold of XYZ Content... YOU, the client that got "caught" using the questionable content , still has a problem.

Now on the other hand,

I think the client should have enough sense not to release, let alone make WEB ACCESSABLE, model ID's or release forms or any other bit of information that should never see the light of day to anyone other than law enforcement.

I'm sure that what I just said is pretty much how those other threads would be summed up.

Kimmykim · 02-11-2003, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

Amen.

Give me a hug Kimmy. I need one.

Consider yourself hugged. There are legal issues involved here that I can't see but the most stupid trying to circumvent.

Juicy D. Links · 02-11-2003, 01:38 PM

I love looking at these skanks id's . They look totally different than when they get blasted with jizz.

And second if the guy wont let you get ID then it might hurt you if they are underage..something to think about

UncleJimmy · 02-11-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by goBigtime
....As I recall, Matrix Content gives clients model ID's (properly censored of course) and I think copies of the release form... not sure on that....

Yes they do, however, the only 'information' requirement by 2257 that they unfortunately blank off the ID is the model's real, full name, and no inclusion of any possible stage names or nick names...

AaronM · 02-11-2003, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SquarePants
So AaronM, what is the best thing to ask for if you are a content buyer in the US.

Should we have certian expectaions on what comes with the content. Better question, in your opnion, what should we get to CYA?? (serious question)

The only thing you need to CYA is for the license agreement to clearly define who the custodian of records is. If you want additional comfort then request the ID of the model as well. The model release is designed to protect the photographer and allow the resale or publication of the images by the producer. Again, this is a liability that the producer assumes just like age documentation.

A content provider should be responsible for providing more than just the images. Their job is also to provide records to the proper authorities if/when requested. This is solely their responsibility and should be considered part of the overall service to their clients.

I have spent a lot of money on attorneys fees in order to have my documents drawn up and a complete file system layed out for me. If you want to be really technical, having a single copy of the 2257 docs does not make you compliant with the law anyway....especially when most people are stating that name and address info be omitted.

"Sec. 2257. Record keeping requirements

Paragraph B:

(b) Any person to whom subsection (a) applies shall, with respect to every performer portrayed in a visual depiction of actual sexually explicit conduct -
(1) ascertain, by examination of an identification document
containing such information, the performer's name and date of
birth, and require the performer to provide such other indicia of
his or her identity as may be prescribed by regulations;
(2) ascertain any name, other than the performer's present and correct name, ever used by the performer including maiden name, alias, nickname, stage, or professional name; and
(3) record in the records required by subsection (a) the
information required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection
and such other identifying information as may be prescribed by
regulation. "

What that means....the bold part specifically....Is that you are required by law to not only have their real name but also ANY other names they have gone by. Even if the real name is not blocked out, you are still not compliant in most cases because you 1: have not examined the original document yourself, and 2: You do not know what other names she may have gone by.

AaronM · 02-11-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UncleJimmy

Yes they do, however, the only 'information' requirement by 2257 that they unfortunately blank off the ID is the model's real, full name, and no inclusion of any possible stage names or nick names...

I should have read this before my last reply.

You are absolutely correct.

SquarePants · 02-11-2003, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM

The only thing you need to CYA is for the license agreement to clearly define who the custodian of records is. If you want additional comfort then request the ID of the model as well. The model release is designed to protect the photographer and allow the resale or publication of the images by the producer. Again, this is a liability that the producer assumes just like age documentation.

A content provider should be responsible for providing more than just the images. Their job is also to provide records to the proper authorities if/when requested. This is solely their responsibility and should be considered part of the overall service to their clients.

I have spent a lot of money on attorneys fees in order to have my documents drawn up and a complete file system layed out for me. If you want to be really technical, having a single copy of the 2257 docs does not make you compliant with the law anyway....especially when most people are stating that name and address info be omitted.

"Sec. 2257. Record keeping requirements

Paragraph B:

(b) Any person to whom subsection (a) applies shall, with respect to every performer portrayed in a visual depiction of actual sexually explicit conduct -
(1) ascertain, by examination of an identification document
containing such information, the performer's name and date of
birth, and require the performer to provide such other indicia of
his or her identity as may be prescribed by regulations;
(2) ascertain any name, other than the performer's present and correct name, ever used by the performer including maiden name, alias, nickname, stage, or professional name; and
(3) record in the records required by subsection (a) the
information required by paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection
and such other identifying information as may be prescribed by
regulation. "

What that means....the bold part specifically....Is that you are required by law to not only have their real name but also ANY other names they have gone by. Even if the real name is not blocked out, you are still not compliant in most cases because you 1: have not examined the original document yourself, and 2: You do not know what other names she may have gone by.

Thanks!

AOLGuy · 02-11-2003, 04:24 PM

I use a carbon dating system on my model's vaginas.

Hasn't failed me yet.

Plugger · 02-11-2003, 04:57 PM

We are so paranoid about this, we video tape the whole examination of the ID. I even make statement to the camera that "to the best of my knowledege I examines what appears to be a vailid ID", name the type, number, expiration date and the birthdate. on the ID. We also require 2 IDs. We have the model state her age and that her ID is not fake. We also have her fill out a form and sign it, etc. We even have them sign the photocopy of the ID, then we make copies and file them in 2 different offices.

Overkill, probably, but at least I sleep well at night and don't worry about going to jail . . .

HeadPimp · 02-11-2003, 05:53 PM

The paranoia is running strong these days isn't it...?

I really wonder at times if it is actually possible to be 100% legally covered.. No wait, I know it isn't. At least not in this business.
Someone can always starts something, call their attorny general and get him on your ass, or something.

Get reasonable documentation, work with reputable people and use some reason. I think the the phrase is 'due dilligence'.

02-11-2003, 11:39 AM	#1
xxxdesign-net My hips don't lie Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 10,129	Model's ID .... worthless?? I recently bought some content... but the provider didnt want to give me a copy of the model's ID for privacy reasons, etc... But when you think about it... unless you get the original.... scan copy, or photocopy are pretty much worthless.... There's nothing easier then to modify the birth date in photoshop then scan it.... So you might buy some content thinking that the girl is 18, it says so on her ID.... while in fact... she only was 17....

02-11-2003, 11:40 AM	#2
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	Sure is hard to work with people you don't trust. __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

02-11-2003, 01:10 PM	#18
goBigtime Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,761	I think the content providers should have enough sense to black out or censor certain information on ID's & model releases (like lic#, phone/address etc) but should expect to give this information to their clients to have on file -- in the event they are someday unreachable. As I recall, Matrix Content gives clients model ID's (properly censored of course) and I think copies of the release form... not sure on that. This is better for the clients than to have to say to the feds: "We bought our content from XYZ Content... their offices are at this location".. because if the feds can't get ahold of XYZ Content... YOU, the client that got "caught" using the questionable content , still has a problem. Now on the other hand, I think the client should have enough sense not to release, let alone make WEB ACCESSABLE, model ID's or release forms or any other bit of information that should never see the light of day to anyone other than law enforcement. I'm sure that what I just said is pretty much how those other threads would be summed up. Last edited by goBigtime; 02-11-2003 at 01:12 PM..

02-11-2003, 11:46 AM	#4
Ross Ik ben een aap Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Traffic Force Towers, Canada! Posts: 18,874	Seems strange to me as to why someone would keep some important info like that from you.........

02-11-2003, 12:27 PM	#13
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	If you are buying content from people you suspect to be committing criminal fraud, that would pose the question of why are you buying from them? I think your fears are a bit unfounded.

02-11-2003, 12:29 PM	#14
Claudia Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: amsterdam Posts: 12	Why don't you ask the content provider for a letter which he declares to you that all models are over 18 at the time of the shoot and that he is willing to show the models records in case any governmental institution requires the papers. (sorry for my bad english) but I have been given statements like that to tv people who also wanted ID's.. I did not want to give those out because I did not want others to have our models contact info... They agreed to it.... Just a thought...

02-11-2003, 12:59 PM	#17
SquarePants Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 408	So AaronM, what is the best thing to ask for if you are a content buyer in the US. Should we have certian expectaions on what comes with the content. Better question, in your opnion, what should we get to CYA?? (serious question)

02-11-2003, 01:38 PM	#20
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	I love looking at these skanks id's . They look totally different than when they get blasted with jizz. And second if the guy wont let you get ID then it might hurt you if they are underage..something to think about

02-11-2003, 04:24 PM	#25
AOLGuy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 1,261	I use a carbon dating system on my model's vaginas. Hasn't failed me yet.

02-11-2003, 04:57 PM	#26
Plugger Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: North Coast Posts: 592	We are so paranoid about this, we video tape the whole examination of the ID. I even make statement to the camera that "to the best of my knowledege I examines what appears to be a vailid ID", name the type, number, expiration date and the birthdate. on the ID. We also require 2 IDs. We have the model state her age and that her ID is not fake. We also have her fill out a form and sign it, etc. We even have them sign the photocopy of the ID, then we make copies and file them in 2 different offices. Overkill, probably, but at least I sleep well at night and don't worry about going to jail . . .

02-11-2003, 05:53 PM	#27
HeadPimp Bad Mo-Fo Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,772	The paranoia is running strong these days isn't it...? I really wonder at times if it is actually possible to be 100% legally covered.. No wait, I know it isn't. At least not in this business. Someone can always starts something, call their attorny general and get him on your ass, or something. Get reasonable documentation, work with reputable people and use some reason. I think the the phrase is 'due dilligence'.