Designers - Read This Tip!!!!
 

When you send a PSD to your client, DON'T rasterize the text and DO send us ALL the fonts you used in the design. This way we can make changes to the text as we need, and that you probably fucked up in the first place.

We do not want to chase you down to ask for a new PSD, ask for fonts or anything else. We have money to make, not time to waste. :2 cents:

If you are not currently providing your PSDs to your client like this with the fonts included, you suck and your client is talking about you and behind your back.

Agree 1000% - searching for fonts is a PITA!

oooo and how about this one

DON'T send the design in freakin pdf format!

i always have them send it in PSD because i will want to make promo out of it, and 9 out of 10 times will have to fix something they messed up.

yup, thats the way it should be

I do too, however a local designer still to this day refuses to send me the psd for a site :mad:

You meant to say "a local designer that I won't use anymore" didn't you?

haha yes, actually i'd take it a step further than that.

"a local designer that I will NEVER use again and will NEVER recommend them to anyone"

:thumbsup

Fonts Included!!! :]

Some designers don't even give PSDs :)

fonts here too! :thumbsup

ive been on the other side before providing.


I also fix things clients dont like. I dont want them unsatisfied... or as you say, talking behind my back :winkwink:

Geesh..who do you guys use?
I always send my psd's, along with the fonts.
Any dumbass should know that.

I don't worry about sending fonts out because I only use COMIC SANS.

The reason a lot of designers don't send the .psd is because they don't want you to see how little they know about Photoshop.

The way a designer uses layers, layer masks, clipping masks, adjustment layers, layer groups, renames their layers, etc says everything you need to know about their skill level.

Theres nothing like trying to fix the mistakes in a .psd with 70 layers (20 of which are completely unnecessary) all with their default layer names.

On a side note, has anyone else started using Fireworks CS3 for mocking up their sites instead of Photoshop?

Some of my fonts cost me over $200 each, why the fuck should I give them to the client for free? If a client signed off on a design, and it has a spelling error, that's their fault. Change orders = more money for designer.

what annoys me most is 1000 layers that aren't organized and color coded.

You don't own the psd, the designer has no obligation to send this to you at all unless you've made prior arrangements. I usually do to adult clients because ya'all expect the world for a dime, but I never give mainstream clients psd's and they almost NEVER ask.

If your design has errors that aren't based on misinformation you gave them in the first place, then its their job to fix it and give you the final files as requested.

DWB, from your negative attitude towards all designers (the statement 'that you probably fucked up in the first place' shows you have a pretty low opinion of designers) I'd imagine your a pretty challenging client!

This might help :-)
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=700443

I should hope that most don't. Contrary to popular belief on this board, you do not own the design, the desginer does. You are paying to use it. If you paying me to design a webpage, a webpage is what you get. Why would I give you the PSD file so you can then take it and make Business Cards, T-shirts, or whatever? Those all cost extra.

Also, make sure you don't forget the drop shadow.

very true.. when clients ask me for psd i usually send fonts although 95% of them don't ask it.

agree 100% with you on that

1) EVERYONE here knows its common practice that the webmaster owns the psd... and is going to constantly modify/change it

2) EVERYONE knows that mainstream idiots are suckers that can't wait to get ripped off by designers, consultants, shitty software packages etc all sold for 10 times or more what its worth.

3) EVERYONE knows that the favorite scam of mainstream design is to own the psds so the customer has to come back to them and pay them like a total fucking moron 50.00-100.00/hr to make any ridiculous change... not to mention having to wait.

4) just like with your websites/members, you often exhibit this weird contempt for your customers.

5) customers are speaking. why argue with them? He's 100% right. everyone HATES paying for work and getting a psd with endless layers that aren't used, that are unorganized, no fonts etc.

Are you Kidding ?

thats total bs. all that matters is whats agreed to. i have never done anything with a designer where i was not upfront about the fact that i wanted to own all work and have the psd's... even in mainstream for print work and i have never had a designer tell me no.

Nope, why would I kid? I don't give files period. You want the fonts, go buy them. You want to know how I did a design, go to design school. When a plumber fixes your pipes, do you ask him to leave his tools for you to make some changes if you want?

I have never done a design job where a contract wasn't signed with usage rights included in the agreement. I have neve made a change without a change order signed, I have never started a job without an estimate sign. So what's your point? Just because you deal with subpar designers who do what needs to be done in order to get the job, doesn't mean that what they do is correct.

The only idiot is a client who pays in full before they sign off on the work. If you're stupid enough to do that, then you'll eventually get burned.

Edit: On the "never haves" I have done those things, learned from the mistake, and will never do it again, is what I mean.

So when i shoot a model, instead of me paying her, she should be paying me for the use of my camera equipment on her ?

What a load of bullshit

Depends on what you are shooting her for. If you are shooting her for her, then yes she should pay you. If she is modelling for you, then you should pay her. What either of those two have to do with graphic design, I have no idea.

Why do you think she signs a model release??? You think if she didn't sign that, you could use the photos for whatever you wanted?

my point was pretty simple... i think you know what it is, even if you want to pretend you don't... that its totally commonplace in adult for the webmaster to own the work. calling every designer in porn "subpar" is a bit of a reach.

"paying in full" at any point, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the MASSIVE inconvenience of being expected to go back to that designer just because you need to make some changes... and him wanting 50.00 to 100.00 an hour to make them ... IF/WHEN he has time.

If I am not paid, I am going to make changes in order to get paid. But, if the changes come after you have signed off on the design, they will cost you. So it has everything to do with it. If picking up your phone, writing an email, using your fax machine, or, god forbid, ICQ is an inconvience for you, then you should probably spend less time posting on GFY.

Didn't call any designer subpar, just seems like maybe you have worked with a few.

aico has a point. I always delivered PSDs, no prob about that, and you want fonts? hey, there you have. But at some point, I started buying fonts and provided them with special mention that those fonts were purchased so don't re-distribute them. Then somebody (won't give names) gave these fonts to outsourced companies and they redistribute them all around the interweb, which is plain moronic, if you have something original, take care of it and don't give stuff that makes the difference unless you want to risk other sites looking like yours. Long story short, unless they're extremely good clients, if I use purchased fonts, you'll need to pay for them same as I did. That way you'll appreciate the value of what you have a little more. For the record, good fonts can cost up to 500 dollars for a font family (the ones distributed from me costed $249 applied to a $450 design)

another thing: do you really think you pay for "photoshop knowledge"? Let's take this: have Bruno Dickman, Mike Wylde and some of those outsourcing companies designers (no offense just giving an example, my excuses to the GOOD outsourced designers). They all know how to use Photoshop with higher or lower levels of expertise. Then, most serious programs will choose Mike W or Bruno (or me! :winkwink: ) over an outsourcing company. Why? Because you pay for CREATIVITY, MARKETING KNOWLEDGE, PROFESSIONALITY, EXPERIENCE, KNOW HOW. Not for someone using a cracked photoshop version who, at best, can copy other site or just work on other people's PSD. Honestly, sometimes I get pissed when I see how my design elements are used by these outsourcing companies (not their fault, of course) and more when they destroy what I did with some effort (and this time it's their fault based on lack of expertise or simply slacking). Not to mention the free Photoshop techniques and tutorials they're getting by simply check my layers.

and btw, mainstream design is not overpriced, outsourcing companies made the design biz came to outrageously low prices. In mainstream you can take 1-3 months for a project and it will come out great and you'll be paid for all that time. In adult, you need to have ideas and make the designs "for yesterday" and it's not unusual you don't get paid or you're paid 1 to 6 months later

anyway, there's a side for every story, and there are good designers as well as crappy designers (same happens with every profession or activity).

i can't believe your clueless remarks. its an inconvenience to a market of people who own and operate websites and have a working knowledge of html and photoshop and are working on their own sites daily. why you wouldn't get that.. is totally beyond me and explains why everyone has no idea that you do adult designs.

pretending that its a normal thing to do in adult is absurd, flat out wrong and completely deslusional. its not. never has been. webmasters always want the psd's and get them.

OOPS!... sorry Mike Wylde... didn't know you posted on gfy under "aico"

my bad
:(

Here ya go, here is a standard Design Agreement from AIGA, it's about oooh, 40 some pages...
http://www.aiga.org/resources/conten..._agreement.pdf

LMAO I would NEVER do ANY design in Adult. Too cheap.

HEY GFY DO NOT USE ME FOR DESIGN, I WON'T EVEN CONSIDER THE JOB IF IT'S ADULT OR COMES FROM GFY.

marketing and self promotion is definitely not your strong point... and given the contrast of your elitist statements and position and the fact that i have seen you say some pretty absurd things about photoshop, i would guess that design isn't either.

maybe you can "wow" us all with some links to your top notch work? you know, the type of work that you would never do for adult because adult is "too cheap"

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Interesting.. I know a webmaster who loves that font... :helpme

In a real design firm. You have

1. The Top Dog ... lead designer. He probably has an extensive portfolio and has years of experience.( he doesn't even know how to use photoshop ) HE IS A DESIGNER ...

2. The graphic artists. Making the lead designers vision come to life. They probably have years of experience and a degree that specializes in a specific aspect of the design industry.
3. There is always a window of time to make changes.

Nobody does jack swiss shit without it being signed off in writing. You are also usually not talking about $20 dollar logos ...

Then you have freelance designers ... if you don't have a portfolio to backup your skills... you probably aren't signing contracts and your working for guys like the OP that think your shit anyway...

If you are worth two shits and have a strong portfolio all this crap is agreed to upfront and is a NON ISSUE ( your probably getting $$$ too )...

then you have adult...
:warning so the moral of this story is ... specialize in being a designer for the adult industry. You will become $$$ and famous !

Ya, I am gonna link to my work from GFY. No thanks, I have nothing to prove. You want PSD Files with Fonts, use "designers" who use fonts they downloaded of internet free font sites, it's no sweat of my back. My point is that you shouldn't expect it, cuz it is not normal design business to do it that way. Maybe it is in Adult, who knows, but not for me.

yeah jackass... everytime i use dickmans, insaneadultcreations or anyone else... they are just "designers" who don't have their shit together. thats why they have to work you into their schedule... because there is just no shortage of idiots in this biz that have been doing it for almost 10 years now that still have no clue about design, what they want, implementation and modifications.

the whole point of everything i said is that it IS normal in adult and its NOT normal in mainstream.

i personally don't believe you know anything about photoshop... maybe thats why you need mainstream.

What does photoshop, and my knowledge of it, have to do with providing files and fonts? You sound a little insecure. Been a member of NAPP for over 10 years now. So, I think I know a thing or two about Photoshop, but, what's that got to do with anything?

Is there anyone here who is really trying to say that adult and mainstream work the same?

Holy fuck I wish I could charge the adult guys what mainstream people charge for hosting. I'd be sitting in a wheelchair with rims made of gold and diamond studs.

Well, I don't do adult design (thank god), so my thoughts and OPINIONS come from mainstream thinking. Aparently, hearing other people's OPINIONS gets the panties in a bunch for 1 or 2 people who get red in the face and resort to name calling if someone doesn't think the same as them.

Read Harvey's post ... he makes the point pretty well. & maybe you won't dismiss his opinion because of a predisposed negative view.

Adult clients want a week's worth of work for the price of a carton of milk and expect to then be able to take the designers work and pass it onto other designers to work from. I will not give a client a psd if I have any idea that they might take it to an outsource firm, not because I want to charge them for updates but because why should another designer get the path to how I came up with a design & then sell it onto their other clients?

Yeah there's the creative ego side of it, but there's also a need to protect our concepts to a certain extent or we'd be doing our service for free.

I agree with you about needing the psd if you are someone who can make promo tools, updates etc without going back & paying high rates for it each time which is why I provide psd's if asked, but do you understand Harvey's point about the legal ownership of fonts used? This is why some designers rasterize text ... its not necessarily a case of a crap designer as it is a case of you not owning the license to use that font outside of the design provided.

Well, you're speaking from a totally different perspective of what this particular market is expecting.

What kind of response would Charlton Heston get speaking at a Michael Moore rally?

I figured this would be the right place to insert this so... If I do any work for anybody, and you want the PSDs, Fonts, Etc. No problem, just communicate that with me and you got it!!! From my point of view, you pay for it, so if you want it, just let me know. :)

Checking aico off my list of designers to use.

I have yet to see a font worth $200 on any one of your portfolios. :2 cents:


Agreed.

I'm not that challenging, but there are a few things that really get under my skin when dealing with a designer. This of course is one of them.

9 out of 10 times a fuck up would come from them flattening text so I can't change anything, or flattening layers so I'm stuck with what they did and can't separate something if a change is ever needed.

Maybe some clients are OK with taking exactly what is given to them, but by doing that they are trusting that the designer knows their business better than they do, and that's just shouldn't be the case. I prefer to be able to change the designs as I see fit. For one, it allows me to sign off on a design and allows the designer to move on. Second, we should all be able to make changes to text to the designs.

BTW... would like to add this project was a non-adult site for a shoe company.

Well then I do take back my original statement, because quite honestly when it comes to adult I don't really want to deal with it once I've sent it through & i've done all of my job right! A dream client is one who is happy to take it further.

I've seen many designers work in this style, and I agree its sloppy & also quite unnecessary with current versions of photoshop & text effects. But we aren't all sloppy useless idiots who can't get it right the first time :winkwink:

Agree 100%. I dont use designers that wont give me the psd and fonts along with the design. I dont care if the font costs 1000$. Use another font then. I just want the stuff to edit myself. Because I KNOW for sure that all of the designers wont be her in a year or two. I have already made that mistake.