I have a question regarding Affiliates ?!
 

So let's say a company said, this being a well established company of around 15 years... That if you don't send us any new sales to our network, regardless of how many rebills you have, we will deactivate and delete your account with us (hence losing the rebills)

But as we're telling you in advance we think that's fair... I mean we shouldn't pay you forever if your not sending new sales right...

Does that sound fair to you ? I don't know maybe it's me, but that sounds pretty iffy... I can't even imagine it's legal to some degree, I mean what would the billing company say ?

Maybe I am missing the point, I mean I understand times are changing right, getting harder to make the $$$... but surely it's harder for every one, and we all need to stick together, but maybe I am living in a world of unicorns and rainbows... :Oh crap

That's really fucked up..the rebills should be yours for life.

Pure BS, dick move... fuck those assholes :321GFY

See...
 

See this is what I don't get... it's getting harder and harder to make sales as it is... I do get that an affiliate should be able to send 1 new sale in a 12 month period, but what if they don't... they lose their account, that's crazy right...

The funny thing is we're being made out to be the bad guys cause we're questioning the logic of it... I did say the company can make what ever decision they like, but they can't cry when other people decide they don't want to work with them having terms like that forced upon them... crazy.

We've been involved in paysites and cash programs ourselves, and they haven't worked out how we'd hoped for sure, we had to close some sites and programs in the past, and the company are trying to say that's even worse... that we did these things deliberately to fuck people over ourselves... that's just dumb, couldn't be further from the truth, we were the ones who were hit worse by what happened... but doing something as deliberate as what they are suggesting IMO is way worse... glad I am not the only one :disgust

AFF did a similar thing to me...I was on a 35% for life deal with them, but after my traffic dropped they reduced me to 20%...

"Lifetime" has a different definition when you're dealing with shady fucks. :2 cents:

Dayum...
 

It happened to you :Oh crap The worlds gone crazy when it comes to affiliates nowadays... reducing %'s and talking about deleting accounts... I guess we're launching our new affiliate free site at the wrong time :Oh crap

It's a shit move by shit programs (assuming not in T&Cs prior to signing up), end of. It happens though, so out them for being cunts and move on. I certainly would not send a single further click after ultimatums like that - how can you trust them not to move more goalposts in future.

Well...
 

They haven't made the change yet... they are "considering it" but felt that in letting people know they were doing it made it ok... when I suggested they could do what they want, but I didn't think it was a great move... I got a tirade of abuse, both aimed at me as a person, and my business... I was like WTF I am the bad guy ? :321GFY

That's pretty screwed up.

so. this issue is made by aff?

Same. They actually completely disabled the account that I've had running with them since like 2003ish since I wasn't sending new traffic to cut off my rebills. Saying that my CB ratio was too high. Huh? Obviously if some renewing members charged back the ratio would be high considering I wasn't sending new traffic.

I raised hell and thanks to being well connected on that end of the industry got them to reinstate it. I have not yet checked at what percentage it is though.

Lifetime revenue share should be just that -- regardless if you are actively sending new traffic or not. Ultimately us as affiliates will send our traffic to where we achieve the highest EPCs and if that is not them IMO they have no right to pull the plug on the traffic that you've sent them in the past.

Ya, I finally just put him on my ignore list and in 17 yrs in porn, I've never had anyone on ignore. Between this thread and his past when he said he doesn't need to email affiliates when closing paysites I'm done with it.

And in 2016 I had a sale that got 103 rebills with his site. 2008-2016

Re-bills should be yours for life, this is a shady practice from desperate sponsors!

Sounds like you work for Youtube?

Sorry...
 

Sorry not sure what you mean, what do you mean the issue is made by aff ? No the issue is in my opinion anyways made by the program... The program that is basically saying even if you have loads of rebills, if for some reason you don't send any new sales in a 12 month period we will de activate and delete your account... Think that's pretty straight forward for who is to blame lol...

And...
 

And what I really don't get... is surely it's not legal ? OK legal might be the wrong word, but they bill with CCBill... surely the rules are made by CCBill, it's they who run the affiliate system, and the affiliates sign up to... Surely the individual program cant make those kind of changes... :Oh crap

It's not right at all when that happens, very dirty

That's bad. Imo rip-off. And I know that with very bad converting programs even 1 sale might be a problem, no matter how much traffic you will pump in.
So, if your rebills are worth more than 1 sale, just ask some friend to do 1 sale with your affiliate link and then cancel before next month.. or something within next 12 months.


I think maybe they can move you to like 0,001% revenue, that's equal to nothing. Happened to me with one ccbill program.

A hint who it is.. I'm sure YOU promote them.
https://thumbs.mic.com/ZWIwZWNkOWFhN...jdoYS5naWY.gif

He is the first webmaster i've ever put on my list, best move ever tho :thumbsup

I saw that. :thumbsup

I left the tread then had a shit ton of PM.

I'm already on the new rules, so they must be coming into affect.

Which sponsor?

look at my gif up there.. haha sorry I'm not going to be the one to post their name but that gif gives you the answer :1orglaugh

Thanks, though my brain has currently failed with the hint :helpme :thumbsup

Wait, I think I worked it out, thanks!!

I posted that to make the trolls pissed off at who is in the gif but it's not the who it's what they are doing. :2 cents:

:1orglaugh :thumbsup

I heard that sponsor sells very well

This is a common strategem that shady programs think up in declining years to justify stealing rebills. Happened to me dozens of times. Most programs that do it are gone, aquired, or on dead-hand autopilot within a year. It’s just circling-the-drain desperation theft.

I think he has seen this thread, and he should own up to it, nobody needs to name his name....

... if he really stands by his judgement, he'll post it here, proudly

Thats pretty fucking sleazy. Sorry to hear.

The business is changing and deals that were made in the early years are now obsolete. It's a case of tightening your belt and hanging on by your fingertips for some. Or keep all those outdated deals and going out of business sooner.

You all had a great ride when it was easier, now are the lean years.

Theft is unacceptable in any way, any time, no matter what.

I know who you're talking about and they'll never receive a single click from me from others sharing how shady / strange he is.

Patty Cake? :1orglaugh

Ya got me man lol

I should clarify... in my previous post, AFF = Adult Friend Finder ...

Yep...
 

I agree with JScott that if he decides to move this forward he would indeed post it on GFY... my real beef and why I posted it here, is I was made out to be the bad guy for telling him I didn't think it was the right move... I pointed out other people on the board he posted it on seemed to agree with me...

He pointed out it was only 4 people... saying that on that board that's just about everyone lol... he belittled their opinion and their freesites too... which I think again isn't the greatest PR move ever... funny enough something I am often accused of lol...

So I wanted to get a feel for what the people of GFY thought... and it appears all about from Paul Markham (enough said) every thinks it is a bad move... let's hope that's not what happens...

All this being said... I have made some real bad decisions in my time, I am sure if we're all honest we all have... as any one got it 100% right... ? I used to be real stubborn and had my heart on my sleeve, which usually got me in a whole heap of trouble... but I guess with age I have learned that you have to listen, of course that doesn't mean you always take the advice... but some things are just black and white... :upsidedow

That Being Said...
 

That being said the only name I will know him as now is "CUNT" or maybe "SIR CUNTY" cause never have I heard someone so far up their own ass... belittling other people and their work... honestly the guy is a fucking prize tool...

I guess he feels as he's done so well to keep a 30 year old something model still active on her site, and pretending to be a teen he's achieved some sort of greatness... and can disrespect every one else...

He belittled my attempt to launch a new freesite... saying he couldn't exchange links with it, as it wasn't up to the quality and traffic numbers of his freesites... then had a total meltdown and belittled every thing I have ever done, calling me a bottom feeder and that I had somehow grifted every one in this industry... as I said definitely Sir Cunty... of Cuntalot...

Well, there is a bit of a misrepresentation going on here:)

On a private board with a couple of affiliates who have been around a while, I told them there was a change I was THINKING about and basically wanted to know their thoughts.

I wanted to open a discussion with people that I respected their option. I am curious when can you cut ties with an affiliate? Do you just let them use your content forever, even if they let their site fall to shit and put cam ads all over your content? Do you have to keep them on the pay roll if they say your content "SUCKS" even though you are their number one seller and they are a very small affilate for you?

Do I HAVE to take that abuse?

I mean I am just curious, and yes, I posted it to get them to actually respond. It is very hard to get some of these guys to do any work. So I was a bit cheeky.

That SBJ guy and jScott have NO SALES OR REBILLS for two years now. Am I ripping them off by not wanting to do business with them anymore? I did actually PM jScott to talk to him about this privately and said I wasn't really going to delete him but how can I help him to make some sales. And he IGNORED the PM and came on here and acted like this.

So yeah. I guess this is what it is.

TrashyContent is not an affiliate of mine, he was just upset I called him a bottomfeeder. I mean he is, but just want it to be clear. I ONLY Put him down in the thread but I have no business relationship with him because he has no traffic on his paysites or freesites and never has after 17 years.

Everyone else, though, I was trying to have a discussion.

We were NOT removing anyone's rebills, though we are now cutting ties with a few people for misrepresenting the thread. We do want to renegotiate our TOS with affiliates who no longer update their sites, though. Is that really so bad?

Starting out with a 4 point bulletin of your desired changes that includes.

2) If you make zero new sales in a one-year-period, we reserve the right to delete your affiliate account.

That pretty much ends the discussion right there. That's not even an open discussion about the status of peoples freesites and how they promote you. That's an ultimatum that unless people send you new sales, your going to delete their account along with their rebills.

Hence, the reaction you've received so far.

But there is 10 more pages after that of pure passion. It was nice to see people still cared about leaving up old links. I told everyone who posted I wasn't deleting their accounts yet here we are:) The big bad GFY to misrepresent and shame.

NNMasters

I think if people are going to comment here, they should at least be able to read the original thread. Let them in! Let them in!

I think you are missing a very important thing here.

What you were suggesting isn't acceptable under any circumstances at all and all it has done is given affiliates reason to have pause in your judgement and continuing to promote you. It's not something that we should even be having a discussion about. It's unethical. 10 pages of discussion or whether or not you intend to do it are besides the point.

The fact that you were considering doing that is what has affiliates disturbed.

It's one thing to have your account cancelled and have your money taken away when you don't even know about it. That shit has gone on here for years with the large adult sponsors. It's another thing when somebody tells you straight up to your face that they are considering doing it.

Why can't I vent frustration about how affiliates are using our content on a private board to the affiliates? You guys do not respond to anything unless there is drama! That thread got the most replies in years. It did get some people to work on their sites. You even said it gave you a little spark to do some work.

It is weird to carry over on here when I don't know anyone, but if anyone wants to talk, I'm totally willing. Just to be clear, I made a shitpost on a private affiliate board, and people are misrepresenting it here. I think they should get to read it.

Terms page should cover all this. If when they signed up it was lifetime then it should stay lifetime. If ya buy a car with a 100,000 mile warranty do ya have to buy a new car every year to keep your old 100,000 mile warranty=no. Only reason to terminate someone is if they are using your content in a way not allowed which should also be in your terms. Set your terms and stick with them, if you make term adjustments that should apply to new affiliates and not fuck the old guys. Don't offer lifetime if you don't know the definition of it. If someone knows rebills will evaporate then they might have gone pay per sale. So in your terms put "years from now I may steal your rebills" Hell I've made boatloads of cash with some programs, stopped for year or two and came back when they dropped a new site that I thought matched my sites.


Way to keep it classy, why not just post names and addresses of all your affiliates and their numbers. Proving having a website and an affiliate program doesn't make ya business man with ethics.

If they signed up under lifetime and you're modifying terms to affect their rebills then yes you fall into shady fuck category.

I've never promoted you and based on this thread I would never touch anything you're involved with. :2 cents:

I really don't know what you run, could you let me know so we can be better aquatinted? I'm not sure what is wrong with putting in context the amount of sales/relationships with the people who are bringing this here? They brought a private conversation here.

I do agree about the rebill thing, actually. Probably shouldn't have said that. But I am not sure how to predict in 2001 all the various ways people will misuse the content in the future. And was trying to discuss with them in private my frustrations.

Retroactively modifying terms and cutting off rebills is not acceptable at all. If it was lifetime rebills when they sent the join, it should stay lifetime.

Won't promote this program. These bad apples get a lot of visibility on GFY. However most programs - like 98% - never get mentioned. Because there are no problems with them. There are enough other affiliate programs to choose from.

Well, that is unfortunate. If we would've planned on removing anyone's rebills, we would've just done it and hid out like everyone else does till the heat dies down. JOKING! I would not have made a post to talk to about it.

We have never taken anyone's rebills away and had no intention to.

Laughable...
 

Anthony (Yes I know I used Your Name) I am going to try and be the bigger guy here... If you ever leave porn don't go into PR... The way you speak to people is unacceptable...

So let's analyse things, you made it big with 1 site, and on the back of that success had one hell of a ride, well done you, I am sure the hard work of both yourself and the model attributed to that success... but it seems that you think you can now talk down to people, and yeah by the looks of it especially me :Oh crap

My problem was every time someone tried to engage you in a open discussion about your proposed suggestion, you went off on one... now as a person who wears his heart on his sleeve too I understand that at times ideas seem good... and ego sometimes stand in the way of compromise... but dude, you just shot down every one and their work, even in here your reference to the likes of SJB and JScott continues that craziness...

You shot down Grisey and his work, you got the hump when Spunky made some comments/jokes, and even Phil Flash advised you it was a bad move... every time your reaction was harsh... even if with the bigger players you did seem to try and find some kind of restraint.

You told me my opinion (being a bottom feeder and grifter lol) was worthless, you told me the opinion of the 3 or 4 affiliates on NNMasters was worthless... why the fuck was you discussing it there then ? There's probably no more than 8 active members... and pretty much all of them have told you what a bad idea it is :Oh crap

My intention of posting here was not to expose you, at no stage did I mention you by name or your program and I wouldn't have... I just wanted to see if the general consensus in the industry was relevant, and seeing the only person who thought it was is Paul Markham, that really doesn't bode well for you...

I also told you that it was totally your choice to do as you please with your program, but because I then said people "affiliates" could then also chose to do what they pleased in regards to promoting the program, you went mental... so you want to think of me as the enermy... you want me to be the bad guy in this, ok what ever...

Up until recently I have had no issues with you, and been a fan of Pattycake... I wish I had the success you have... but your right in 17 years I am still fighting hard to make money, lots of sites, lots of programmes, I wish things had gone well, I wish I'd had that one crazy successful site... but judging the way you have reacted and dealt with this issue, maybe it's best I haven't cause I would hate to have that greater than thou attitude :disgust

Good luck with what ever you do... I am sure you will always be way more successful than me... :thumbsup