thommy

correct - but my point was that there WOULD be still MORE for pornsites within that big market place if they would simply have the options for selling it the way mediabuyers need it. possibly that 1% instead on 0,01% of bought ads would point to pornsites and make some sales and that would be HUGE money.

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fuzebox

Words to live by Paul

Adult content is a commodity.

Paul Markham

Not everyone can be the TV network, more people have to be the TV show to make the network possible. Same with an agent.

The debate is over does selling porn makes more money than advertising on free porn sites. If it did PH wouldn't sell an ad free option, they would make more money keeping people on the free version. Apps that are downloaded for free, wouldn't have a paid ad free option.

Will the 500,000 viewers pay for porn? No and no one is expecting them to. Will they pay for gas, cigarettes, alcohol, cars, etc? Yes, but none of those advertise on porn sites despite how genius the professional marketers are the surfer is always in control. If that's all it took, ratios would be higher than they are and prices as well.

Will they pay for porn? You can't claim only free porn will get so many, then claim it's the power of professional marketers to make them buy what's given away for free.

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Paul Markham

Precisely. A commodity that would make more money if it were sold and not given away for free.

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Paul Markham

Today the cost of BW and hosting makes it possible to give away recorded porn to attract billions of viewers, to sell to a tiny fraction. No matter how good the professional marketers claim to be.

If we make more money from advertising, we would have been giving porn away before BW dropped. Who cares about the cost of BW, if advertising is more profitable!!!!

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Sly

How much money have you guys made so far arguing about whether or not money can be made?

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PR_Glen

there is probably 2 million different books on business and marketing out there right now and you pretty much summed them all up with this great sentence right there.. haha

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Struggle4Bucks

Paul puts all other debaters on his ignore list and then calls it: “the debate is over”.

Nah nah na naaaaah nah

Hilarious, ignorant, annoying, grumpy old fuck.

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Paul Markham

I don't need to make money, I'm retired and can afford to do this.

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Paul Markham

So why aren't all the copycat tubes making money?

Before then it was the copycat paysites that failed.

To be a success you have to find 100,000 videos for a good tube. You have to have the skills set to find good models, film them properly, fund the production, then launch a site.

Of course it does depend what is a persons idea of making money.

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Paul Markham

The value of Thommy's side is shown here.

So great professional marketers only make 1-30,000 to 1-50,000 viewers buy something and he thinks it proves him right.

That only applied to TV in the pre streaming days. Even today you can't give away free what you're advertising. Cars aren't free to advertise cars, beer isn't free to advertise beer, little samples are but all you can consume isn't.

Maybe when mainstream starts advertising on porn sites the revenue will by high enough to pay to create content, run the company and pay any price for BW. I'm not so sure because the ratios on convincing someone who is jerking off to buy a car, beer, etc are pretty low if you've only got him for 30 minutes with his dick in his hand. No matter how good the professional marketers are.

Magazines didn't put adverts in the middle of the porn sets for the same reason. A man with a dick in his hand isn't the reading ads.

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thommy

paul please learn first the difference between

1. visitors
2. page views
3. content views incomplete
4. content views complete
5. ad-impressions
6. ad clicks on fake ads
7. ad clicks on serious ads

if you got at least this few basics sorted out come back and start again.

for now you do not even know what you are talking about as you do not understand the anything about internet marketing. you do not even understand the numbers you are talking about.

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thommy

i understand - with £168.60 pension per week there is not much you can do cheaper as to troll a forum and tell everybody that you was the one that made it in the good times.

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klinton

well I seriously dont know what the argument and long discussion is about.
its like two sides that dont want to understand each other.
To resume:
Are porn paysites sales down comparing to what they were years, decades ago? yes.
are signup ratios to paysites also down? yes.
does it have something with "free porn" and tubes? yes.

can you make money if you have traffic? yes.
do tubes have lots of traffic? yes.

end of discussion...

Jel

Paul's threads are pretty much always like those trick questions there are multiple answers to, where group a tells group b that they are 100% wrong, group b does the same to group C who arrived at a different but factually correct answer, and so on.

Slight difference being paul is usually answering a different question than he asked, or responding to things that weren't put forward by others, or simply taking a quote out of context and explaining in multiple paragraphs where everyone else who answered correctly went wrong. By the end it's just a giant clusterfuck of different subject matters and crossed wires where most people leave the others to it.

thommy

his problem is that he compares apples with santa clause.

he talks about numbers that he does not understand and that are completely out of context.

he missmatch views, visitors, unique visitors and content views and throws numbers around where he do not even know what they represent.

it is impossible to explain a bloody amateur with the logic of a lemming what is going on in this market - he does not even understand the language of this market.

i know i should not answer anymore - actually nobody should answer him anymore - maybe he gives up to write bullshit, when he find out that really NOBODY takes him serious. but i have a bullshit allergy and always when i read bullshit my fingers start to type.

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fuzebox

I thought we were answering this question? No idea how this derailed into a "blame the tubes" thread in fucking 2019...

Edit: I just reread this and noticed "nothing but the skills it took in 2000-2009"

Sly

It's been "I blame the tubes for why I can't make any money" for the last 10-15 years.

Why should today be any different? :-)

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Paul Markham

That wasn't what the discussion was about.

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Paul Markham

The question I asked is in the thread title. It should shed light and be helpful to any one starting out or newish in pushing porn. Thommy derailed it with his continual rant we make more money today from advertising on porn sites than ever before. I wouldn't let him get away with that stupidity.

Then you chimed in with your 2 penneth.

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Paul Markham

Blame Thommy for that.

With some help from me.

So far we've only had one reply from anyone who started recently and he's pretty quiet about how he did it. Generally speaking I think it's possible to this today with a lot of hard work because it's a flooded small pool populated with some very big fish.

Big tubes have to soak up at least 80% of the porn traffic, leaving the 20% to people who have been in the game for a very long time. But with hard work I think it's doable. But the lack of response shows that the people doing it aren't on GFY, or not sharing any advice.

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thommy

means you do not want to accept the truth right?

alone exoclick pays near to 100 million every year to their publishers.

tell me the name of the member program that EVER was even in the near to that?

in your "good old times" the whole porn-industry was not bigger than that.

and here i am talking about ONE ad-network.
now add all the other really big ones to that and than add the smaller ones like us and than add those thousands of offer networks where a webmaster can find 100 thousand of offers to promote directly. if you are done with that add the revenue of all this big amateursites and camsites that are mostly get their traffic from affiliate webmasters and if you not wake up yet - go and fuck yourself !

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Paul Markham

thommy
This message is hidden because thommy is on your ignore list.

You're wasting your time Thommy. Which is good.

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thommy

don´t worry - i do not write to you.
i just want to prevent that you infect someone with your dumbness

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Klen

Keep in mind how programs usually had 50/50 share while ad networks usually have 80/20 share in terms of commission.

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thommy

i keep that in mind - the size of a market is what comes out AT THE END from the buyers wallet.

this 100 million are not the market size - this is just the money spend for promoting this sales - nobody would spend it if there would not be a profit on top. and THIS is the market size and it is MUCH bigger than just the ad-money.

today we are not even able to know the size of this market because there are so many overlaps. if today a computer game is advertised and sold on a tube, then the revenue is generated ON A PORNSITE but flows into a company that sells games. so this revenue is divided into 2 completely different industries

in the good old days you could say that relatively exactly, because you only had to know the numbers of the biller (there weren't many of them) and extrapolate them.
around the year 2001/2002 the worldwide turnover generated with porn in the internet was less than one billion

the next fat fish came in with mobile subscriptions.
the sales which ran here in the years 2006-2012 amounted to approximately 4 billion annually - thus already that was 4 times larger than the entire porn business - it was however here only about a few above without pictures and 60 seconds softcore videos.

i estimate the worldwide market today around 12-15 billion per year. i only add the generated sales of the clear porn products like membersites, amateur sites, camsites to the share of the advertising costs for porn-foreign products. the biggest part is the dating industry, which spends alone about 2 billion in advertising on adult sites.

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Paul Markham

Thommy is trying to argue that before Tubes existed 90% of the world had no porn and if Tubes disappeared the 90% wouldn't buy porn they would just stop watching.

But also maintains because of professional marketers, he can sell porn to them. But not able to sell porn on any other level. To 1 in 50,000 views.

He also pulls figures out of his ass to prove himself right.

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elliso

Big thx to thommmy ;)

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The Porn Nerd

Thommy: do you think an affiliate today, with a budget, could make six figures a year buying ads and directing them to porn-related products (like dick pills, dating, cams, etc) displayed on white label landing pages?

I ask because I am thinking of allocating a budget for this very purpose BUT if the affiliate game there is anything like the paysite one - where it's better to be the Owner than the Affiliate - then I'd be out. No way I am going to create a dick pill product! Haha!

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thommy

if he can not do six figures per year he should not touch it.

i knowa few one-man shows making 6-figures per month - and i do not talk about revenue i talk about profit.

but these guys are really really skilled and have a huge knowledge.
don´t underestimate it.
the knowledge in this part of the biz can fill a few libraries.

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12clicks

odd, I can't do any of this and my idea of making money isn't something you'd be remotely familiar with.

The Porn Nerd

Yes ok but are you saying the ONLY way a "one man show" can make six figs+ a year (not a month) is with huge knowledge and to be really, really skilled?

Because that is my impression: those who can make money do so BIG TIME otherwise it's go home. Making a decent six figure yearly net is not really an option. It's either be skilled and kill it or go broke trying.

And what about white labels? I heard they get penalized by Google.

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fuzebox

Summed it up

If you can put together a profitable campaign, you have to scale it as high as possible. it's tricky and a lot of work so why would you half ass the volume once you've built something that works? Campaigns don't last.

Paul Markham

You're thinking small scale. If it makes a profit the amount a person spends is dictated by the market size. But you compete with everyone else. Your spend could be $30,000 a month or day. The only limit is how much can you buy, handle and do you make a profit.

The skills involved aren't rocket science, you need to able to design good ads, recognise good products and read stats. Why would a company allow you to have a White Label when they can do it for themselves? As you said it's better to be an owner than an affiliate.

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Paul Markham

You're right I wouldn't know where to start. Roofing isn't my game.

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thommy

I am always astonished that someone who has no clue from nothing can give advise in media buying - wich is one of the most complicated parts of the whole biz.

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Mickey_

Paul, taking a dump on people that actually make money in this industry is perhaps not the best strategy. You're lost in a hundred mostly wrong theories with precisely zero data, up-to-date know-how or case studies to back them up with. Please stop wasting everybody's time as theirs may be more pricey than yours. Turn off the computer, go outside or find new hobbies. Everyone will be happier. Why would you waste the second most carefree time of your life with such nonsense?

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thommy

in media buying the most valuable you can have is the information you got with the money you have lost.

actually there are very very few buyers that do not lose in the start.

from all i can see it is that 80% of the newbies are failing because they think like paul.
mostly they try too much and don´t have or don´t know how to use a tracking system.

the very best way to start it is with one or 2 banners and one or 2 landingpages and collect data.

i'll calculate how many possibilities there are here alone. in the statistics there is a case number of 600 where you reach information with a high probability

so you should now assume that you would need 2x2x600 clicks to get information. WRONG !
because if we take the 3 basedevices desktop, mobilephone and tablet alone then it's already 3x2x2x600.

if you advertise with this kamapgne in a network where 1000 spots are available, the number increases to 1000x3x2x2x600. but here we haven't gone deep yet - no OS, no browser and no country or language included - every additional value creates a new multiplier.

and here the clickid comes in.

if you would like to evaluate this case number 600 with the above mentioned variants for positive values (i.e. signups or sales), you would actually have to reach 600 signups or sales of each variant in order to get information. with the clickid, the far larger number is evaluated - namely the number of those who did not buy and who are not visible in any sales statistics.

if you send 600 clicks via a certain banner on a certain spot to a certain landingpage and a signup would take place so this one signup tells you nothing but the data of the 599 who did not buy tell you something because they have a common denominator.
in the first case you have ONE information - with clickid you have 600 and get 600 times more and faster data with less effort.

this game goes even further, because modern trackers evaluate this data with artificial intelligence and one click does not go to a standard landingpage but to a specific landingpage if it came from a certain device, a certain os, a certain banner and a certain spot.
with this kind of optimization, traffic is not divided into good and bad, but pot and lid are found for each resulting combination.

and of course the promotional material play a very big role here.
i have seen few or no banners somewhere in use where you can see that they were made by someone who knows the graphic laws of advertising.
who observes the golden ratio, readability, reading flow, typography, free spaces and colour signals or simply knows the rules of male colour blindness (under which 15% of all men suffer) and does not use such colour combinations.

and this is only the introduction to a book that has hundreds if not thousands of volumes and in which we learn new things every day.

depend how individual they are done. i see a lot of whitelabels in google. but trafficbuys are not SEO work. it does not even mean that you make a sale over one landingpage but many.

a trafficbuyer does not care google - he buys the traffic from those that care.

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12clicks

from reading through your nonsense its clear you don't know anything about this business either..........

thommy

the fact that there was a time when paul made a bit money proves how easy this biz have been when only amateurs where competing with each other.
paul can´t be succesful in anything when he have to compete with professionals.

just reading this shit is a comedy. that reads like it was written by someone you've locked in a dark basement for all his life without a window, a book, a phone or a TV.
i'm often not quite sure if he's just kidding us and laughing his ass off about the rubbish he's writing in here or if he's really serious about it all

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Paul Markham

Are you saying I was wrong and you don't need to "you need to able to design good ads, recognise good products and read stats" or that you can add something more?

I know someone who buys traffic, or should I say places ads on sites, day in and day out. The best way is to target the ads by collecting the data from the surfers. Porn can't do that because the only ads it displays most of the time are porn ads. Advertising jerk off material to men jerking off to free porn isn't the richest return. Because once sated their desire to pay diminishes.

If you know better post the info.

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Paul Markham

So post info on what you do now. Apart from roofing.

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thommy

i really don´t know why you do not believe what EVERYBODY here is telling you: that you are stupid like fuck.

you know someone that buys traffic? oh great I know someone that speaks chinese !
and i know someone that knows someone that speaks marsian.

if you are angry with your life and how things went for you you should not be angry with the ones that don´t want to step down to your amateur crying level.

it is a fact and everybody knows it that you have no clue about nothing. and no matter how many people tell you facts you will ignore them because it hurts you that you are not smart enough to understand how things are working this days.

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Paul Markham

How much time did you waste reading and replying to this thread?

Thommy has wasted the most time so like me he has it to waste.

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thommy

means: we need something like a markham-blocker for not wasting time to find out that you are writing bullshit the whole day long.

I am not sure if you WANT that people read your crap or if you write it to force them blocking you....

if you have any brain cells left and still are interested to know how this biz is going along, than use them to read. learn and understand. but stop telling us you can't cross the ocean anymore because the rowing slaves are dead.

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