pimpmaster9000

yes but you WANT it and the proof is in the pudding

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Bladewire

Sometimes we sacrifice our wants so we can get what we need.

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thommy

of course you need it.

and you do not only need the cheap good from there you need buying power IN china to sell them goods.

just one example: how many jobs do you think depend in BOEING alone on china?
china is their biggest customer.

and many parts in this planes are made in china because they are easy to make and don´t need expensive experts to produce them.

so now take the china imports aways from there and you have 2 effects.

1. china will lose buying power and they will not order planes from BOEING because of...

2. the planes there are too expensive because low skilled work is done by high paid specialists.

away from the chinese also other countries will not buy an overpriced plane because the material from the seats have been produced in USA to a much higher price.

so you definitely need them - same as we all need them.

the rise of the world economy after 2009 was 1 to 1 connected to the growth of china and a few other "cheap" countries.

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Bladewire

Your error is thinking China is the only country that makes cheap goods.

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pimpmaster9000

no you are greedy capitalists who sell each other out for money...you and only you moved to china for the cheap labor...you and only you stand in line to buy cheap china shit...the proof is in the pudding

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thommy

of course it is not only the only country but it would take decades for every other country to build the infrastructure that is necessary.

china have all of that.
they have airports and harbours and the logistic in the country to send a good fast and cheap from one place to the other. they have the banking system to make payments and much much more.

out of that china is already in all those countries.
they own factories, streets, harbours, airports, planes and the complete logistic in the most of the asian countries.
most third world countries do not even have the banking system what is obligate for international trade.

so if you look deeper in that you should understand that it is much more as what you see on the first view.

all economists in the whole world agrees that the entire global economy and the entire global economic system will collapse if China goes bankrupt.
the consequences would be felt for over 100 years.

and even if it would be restored after 100 years it is under the same signs. no matter if the country is china again or india or whatever is called.

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Bladewire

You give China too much credit

China needs to be knocked down a few pegs and I'm willing to sacrifice to make that happen as are most Americans.

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pimpmaster9000

well your economy is saved then...so are your exports...europeans are standing in line to buy even more expensive american good that do not sell in europe anyway

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VRPdommy

While everyone seems to know the economy needs reasonable priced energy to move,
you sure wouldn't notice that by the actions of it's leaders.

The price of oil is high and about to break the economy worldwide. Saudi and Russia has manipulated the pricing and Russia is not OPEC despite what trump says about it.
The US has a 'all time record production' this year, so there is no shortage of it. Supply demand is suppose to be driving the market, or so the free market folks tell you.
They are only free to manipulate, no rules or regulations.

The HUGE trade imbalance the US has with China is offset with oil exports to China.
So, without it, it would be worse and probably will soon be reported as much worse as the trade war with them has diverted much their contract purchases to Russia/Saudi despite the now $10bl cheaper WTI oil price. How good is that for jobs and your taxes... it's a triple whammy.
Without manipulation, the price of Brent oil would be bouncing between $52 & & $62 bl.

Everyone in the US bitches about cheap subsidized imports and forget that we subsidize more stuff than they do most times. I can hardly blame the Canadians for trying to protect their farmers.

And we are now doing it at even higher levels with the new methanol standard, your tax dollars are paying for production of methanol from corn. the most inefficient way of making it. So, you are subsidizing fuel at the same time since they even get tax breaks for doing it. Whereas we also have have tariff's on sugar imports. Been there for over 5 decades.

Wouldn't it make sense to take the tariffs off of sugar (used as a domestic price support) and extend loans and some initial taxbreaks to the sugar cane producers to make methanol.
Making it from corn adds to food prices since most processed food contains much corn and corn byproducts and everything is sweetened with corn syrup now.

But the US taxpayer is paying for the subsidy in their taxes and the higher food prices.
Just ask Brazil, they did it with sugar cane as E85 fuel and now export oil to China.
Every American produced auto is E85 compatible since 1997. i have to travel 30 miles to get it where I am and have used it to notice little to no difference.
Forces have stopped the tract we were on over 20 years ago. The goal was to be much less dependent on imported oil.
If not for other issues there including corruption, Brazil would be a very rich nation now.
Sound familiar ?
So why do the leaders support the doing of making energy more expensive until it clips the economy and cry foul.

the US energy policy is driven by payola and politics. Smoke screen all the way.

In some way, I strongly wish the price of oil was 'over $100 bl'.
Because it would force everyone to use alt methods and break this insider power that is so affecting all parts of our self governance and innocent people worldwide.
Mush less reason for many of the armed conflicts you pay for in dollars and blood.
And you wonder why we have a immigration problem...

Sorry to wish for what seems as a bad thing but I see no other way to bump this power machine from politics. Self-destruction seems 'JUST'

BTW... where are all those coal jobs that were promised ? West Virginia bought it hook line and sinker. All those 'red tape job killing regulations' have been removed some time ago.
Forget ?

The Saudi's will get away with it. You Need Them... Can't you see that.
Don't like it... Change it ! It's a matter of demanding a real comprehensive energy policy.
You can not get what you do not ask for.

thommy

so you are willing to suffer 100 years with the knowledge that "the fix" will lead to a similar problem. and this problem you want to fix again this way?

and when are the times for a generation that will not suffer ? (not mentioned that you would not be in such a generation).

to really understand a situation means to take away every personal feeling and observe it logic and neutral. after that you will see that even your personal feeling has changed.

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pimpmaster9000

ok shit just got serious:

Jared Kushner said on Monday he had urged Saudi Arabia's crown prince to be transparent about the killing of Jamal Khashoggi,

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dyna mo

Thommy, cheap labor is not a economic speciality and certainly not mutually exclusive to China. In fact many countries are copying China already on that and beating them. Millions of jobs have and are moving out of China.

_Richard_

kinda surprising he has said anything

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pimpmaster9000

no the oil is just a small part of it...the war dollar gives americans the ability to dump their inflation on the weak and take their resources for printed money...

example: can I buy YOUR house for printed out of thin air "crucifissio dollars"? no? but can I buy it if I put a gun to your head and there is no police you can call? YES!

the USA can not afford peace...forcing people to take the war dollar keeps its price artificially high, with an artificial high price americans have artificial purchasing power abroad where they buy resources for pennies, then they export and are "competitive"...the local US economy stays "Strong" and everybody else gets modern debt slavery...

america will not stop until somebody forces them to stop...there is no nice and conventional and democratic way to do this...americans will never change or give up their standard of living and there will be violent opposition to this...

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VRPdommy

I will agree to the fact that the Dollar has been backed by the price of oil since we went off the gold standard and traded for imported oil in terms of dollars just after that fact.
But it did have a stabilizing effect on the plus side of things.

And...
Every nation we have had issues with have promoted finding a alternative to the dollar in terms of oil trade to lower our influence that brings with it.

and yes, real property value here is really based from that oil. And so purchasing power and screwed investment ratios.

It has been clear to me for over 20 years that the smartest guys on wall street can not fix these issues but that has not stopped them from trying LOL.
As Greenspan said a long time ago, if the system fails, there is always BARTER system.
And I have never doubted it would fail. just when ?

But I think you put to much weight on how much buying power is reduced when the price is low. We just had a couple of years of low prices and all I seen was a reduction of growth in the deficit. The US still has to import oil to supply it's needs and much of it comes from Canada before OPEC. Everyone needs the same expensive energy to mine/move/make/deliver products (a multiplying effect for some). It only pays if you have it in the country you need it in. It keeps your money from moving somewhere else reducing your tax base and money supply.

When the fed talks about inflation, it is never about the cost of goods and services, but the value of wages. The American worker and consumer has been taking it in the chin ever since our money has been back by oil. So it is happening, but not at a rate that anyone seems to bring alarms that it should and is how they are getting away with it.

They seem to have a goal of keeping 'real wages' here from little growth as possible while the rest of the world wages grows at faster rates till there is some sort of balance.
I doubt they will ever find that point. The greedy will not allow for it.

The writing has been on the wall, but it is interesting to see it play out. The greedy expose themselves.

pimpmaster9000

OK the USA is now revoking the visas of the fall guys...this will teach the saudis!

they may also put in sanctions against the fall guys

that will teach them!

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pimpmaster9000

Officials in Saudi Arabia summoned Salah Khashoggi, the eldest son of the late journalist Jamal Khashoggi, to a palace in Riyadh on Tuesday, where he posed for photos with King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

While the Saudis claim that the son “expressed ... great thanks to the Saudi King and Crown Prince for their condolences,” the pictures suggest otherwise

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