Bladewire

Thanks Trump

We're now lower than our high of 26,616 10 months ago. No stable gains for almost a year now

Dow drops more than 500 points today, nosedives losses 5 days in a row

dyna mo

I wonder if the market is also spooked by this hurricane Michael? it's huge. be safe guys!

pimpmaster9000

OP has it all wrong...it is SAVINGS...it is now 1000 cheaper

lots of MAGA!

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onwebcam

It wil likely decline until after elections. Once the uncertainty of Democrats possibly wreaking havoc on everything positive has passed by losing their ass, again, it will rebound.

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beerptrol

Jethro won't be able to cash in that walmart stock to upgrade his single wide to a single wide with a deck

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Robbie

It's mostly tech stocks. According to analysts the market is "nervous" because the Fed is raising the interest rate.
For those people that follow what is really going on in the world...Pres. Trump spoke on this the last 4 or 5 days about his displeasure with the Fed raising interest rates too fast.

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Bladewire

The tarriff war that Trump created has increased the cost of goods 10%-25% which has increased inflation so the FED has to raise the rate quicker to keep up with Trump's bullshit.

Common sense

Under 8 years of Obama the fed raised their rate once.

Under 2 years of Trump the fed has increased their rated 8 times! And you don't think Trump is driving us to a market crash and when it happens you'll blame Democrats and/or Obama, as always.

RedFred

A year ago Trump couldn't shut up about taking credit for the Obama economy and market. Funny he hasn't mentioned the stock market in almost a year. We're seeing the Trump economy in full form.

RedFred

Already making excuses for "the best economy in history".

Couldn't ride that Obama wave forever.

Bladewire

astronaut x

Sure, like what happened in the Obama years right?

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hottoddy

LOL. The market has been soooo overvalued for a loooooong time. More likely, fear that the Democrats might take back the House is setting in. Today was only 3%. The real tank will happen if and when this lovely lady becomes Speaker again.

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directfiesta

I don't undestand .....

All those 'clean' coal jobs and profits should have made miracles !!!!

One Of America's Oldest Coal Companies Just Filed For Bankruptcy

Bladewire

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Bladewire

It's not "Democrats" worried about the economy and sending out the warning signals you simpleton.

onwebcam

This uncertainty is what investors are terrified of

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huey

The sky is falling.

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"They aren't after me, they are AFTER YOU! Im just in their way"
-D.J. Trump

Bladewire

Dow falls 832 points in third-worst day by points in stock markets history

The other two worst point drops in history were back in February where stocks dropped 1,000 points... twice

BaldBastard

Dow stocks that all have a significant presence in China, were among the bigger blue chip losers on Wednesday

let that one sink in, Trump has fucked your trade with China for no other reason that he's tarnished the brand "USA" there, and here, and Canada, and Mexico and anywhere else his sorry ass has turned. He can negotiate any trade deal he wants but it means fuck all if the population of that trading country stops buying American products, simply because they are American made.

1st quarter 2019 all hell breaks loose... with no offshore loot to fudge the books any more and that's if China doesn't fold first, then you have a domino effect bigger than 1924.

trumps a fucking moron and businesses that have expanded on borrowed money are bigger morons when he has inflationary policies in place.

Get out an vote America and minimize the damage.

Bladewire

Just post with one nic asshole you're not fooling anyone

Shedevils

The average middle class consumer has no access to finished American goods in China. A trade deal would move to improve that situation.

I'm wondering if there is more to it than just this and if China will face sanctions over what is going on in Xinjiang. The writing seems to be on the wall for this. See https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...35 f195db09c3

But I know most NPC types will still just see "orange man bad" and not have any knowledge of what is really going on.

Bladewire

Goldman Can't Rule Out U.S. Naming China a Currency Manipulator

The Trump administration is pushing for Cina to be deemed a currency manipulator, which they are.

The problem is Trump is doing the tarriff war and pushing for that at the same time. If they are downgraded to being a currency manipulator at the same time tariffs are going on in the next couple years things will go to shit for everyone.

Also, in Trump's new USMCA deal, for the first time ever used in a trade agreement, a currency manipulation clause, and China has taken notice:

"Chapter 33 addresses countries artificially devaluing their currencies to gain an unfair competitive advantage in international trade. It is the first time such a clause has been included in a major trade agreement.

The clause only applies to the three countries in the USMCA agreement, where there is no controversy on respective exchange rates.

Its inclusion could, however, signal the Trump administration’s intent to include similar wording in other trade deals it is now negotiating with the European Union and Japan, and could form the basis for an argument that it should be the norm for all trade agreements."

Billionaire's in charge don't care it'll just fuck with all the rest of us.

dyna mo

common sense.

and pushing to denuke SK with China's help. I would mention the S. China sea but trump seems to be giving them a free pass there, like Obama did. bad idea

Rochard

Ford Prepares for Mass Layoffs After Losing $1 Billion to Trump's Trade Tariffs, Report Says

Ford Prepares for Layoffs After Tariffs Take $1B Bite, Report Says | Fortune

This is not what winning looks like.

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thommy

is it really that hard to understand?
the us economy is booming while the us is generating higher deficits month after month.

So where does the money that makes the economy boom come from?
Right ! From the banks. It is borrowed money!
The private debt in the USA has grown since Trump to the highest level of all times.

So borrowed money cheers the economy on and this high demand leads to inflation. Inflation MUST be countered by the FED with higher interest rates because otherwise the same thing happens as in Turkey.

The indebted people now have to bear a higher interest burden and in addition the demand for the dollar rises with higher interest rates.

Higher dollar = less exports especially since many emerging countries are indebted in dollars and now also get into the crisis which will lead to unemployment in these countries.
The unemployed, however, buy nothing and import nothing and certainly not from a country whose currency is much too expensive.

Every normal person could have seen and predicted what would have happened here from the very beginning and the "normal" people did the same.
Others seem to become probably only then smart if everything lies in broken pieces.

Trump might know how to prevent paying his own debts back but he has no fucking clue about world economy and how much the USA depends on it.

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GFED

thommy

that´s true but the line was passed when the companies got this nice tax cutt to buy their own stocks back.

what did trump think they are going to do with this money? pay it to the shareholders and they pay private tax on it?
why should they when they can buy shares back and don´t pay any tax ?

was a nice party with borrowed money - now comes the time to pay it back.

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thommy

if i would speak for the democrats I would not touch this president chair now.

economic effects always show up with a time lag. just like trump's glory based on the work of his predecessor, the democrats will have to spoon out his soup in the coming years.

it would be much better if all those who don't understand that could experience under trump where he steered the country.

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RazorSharpe

not idea why I posted that here

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dyna mo

Hah, I just posted earlier today in another thread FANG was way overvalued

beerptrol

Mnuchin: The stock market is the Trump administration's report card

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Bladewire

Yep and Trump will call it fake and blame Democrats while making up a conspiracy to try and not be held accountable.

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Bladewire

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RedFred

$5 submissions

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Bladewire

Interesting

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VRPdommy

I'm not more particularly worried about it any more than I have been for the last year. (think about that)

But if the economy gets hit with 'rapid' rising costs, and it is getting a double whammy from both the tariff war and the cost of energy, it affects spending and the banks will have a new issue with the over extended loans it has made to the fracking industry (among others) as a quick decline or negative growth rate ensues. We can not afford a recession. Slow growth is OK but not in the negative.

Right now, the market is just at the 'discovery phase' of the issues. Many are not sure the depth of the problem. The uncertainty will keep the market from making any major gains from the 100 day moving average for a while until that changes.
probably be up and down in a stale way for the next 90 to 120 days as they find the winners and losers of the current situation. Until/unless new insight can be made.

While it might seem the fed is adding insult to the injury, the alternative is much worse. Your long term growth is always at risk if inflation in the US grows at higher rates than the rest of the world in comparison. Yes that really means wage growth. Not the cost of goods and services. And that is why your buying power continues to go down with time, if you work for a living that is.
So the fed is doing it's job in place of any good political solution.

So are the current economic facts enough to keep the economy from 'overheating' or will it go negative ? that is the question.
The stock market does not like uncertainty.

One could say that that the market is not overvalued, by the means of the huge tax break being realized this year, the valuation ratios improved. But we all know that is not sustainable... or should know.

badgirlfilms

The pain will continue in the stock market

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VRPdommy

...LOL...
It's always about the price of energy. It's just that it takes 6 months to 10 months to measure it depending on how fast it rises. But you can now add this trade war and tariffs to the list. You will be able to measure it in a big way by the mid of 2q 2019. Your just seeing some projections now. Nobody knows the depth of the impact and probably no idea for 6 months.

World economies slow or stop growth over $80 bl... were there...
But a new situation has emerged. A alliance of Saudi and Russian oil forces that tops anything the US can do in being top energy producer and having a influence on production/pricing.
It's called OPEC+
But, something else...
Trump has pissed off the Chinese, so now they will not buy our domestic oil.
That's sure to change the money game next election. Not sure what domestic oil produces will do to get back their $10bl loss. Surely not give money the the guy that helped that along.

Yes, the spread between WTI oil and Brent oil is around $10 a barrel and getting worse. Since Obama lifted the OIL Export restrictions in 2015,
(https://www.investors.com/news/oil-e...eeds-obama-ok/)
it has helped better our trade imbalance with all the crap we get from china. I still did not like it. At least not until we are self sufficient oil producers. They blew smoke and mirrors on that by using the term 'North America' will be self-sufficient producers by 2020. And you bought it !

No matter what the politicians do, if the price of oil hits and maintains $90 bl, the US economy will collapse in less than a year while Russia's & Saudi's economy thrives. That's a lot more mess your tax dollars are going to have to serve those wars in the mid-east. And they are already staging their positions. And guess what... we will not likely be able to borrow from the Chinese to pay for it. You have lower tax collections from the tax breaks.
Hmmmm....

But that has the effect of oil demand dropping, but who will care about that if you can't get a loan from a bank ?
Does anyone see a similarity of 2006/07 ?
And it's not like nobody warned you.... you just would not listen to them 'cause the markets were going up !
Wall Street does not factor this stuff in until the shit hits the fan and it's to late to reverse course. Even 'if' the next congress does what it can to change things, you are in for slow growth for a couple of years as this trickles down. But you won't be able to measure it until well after the next congress takes it's seat.

YEP, Trump has played right into Putin's hands from the tearing up of that treaty with Iran and lowering those oil exports, to a trade tariffs that the RUSSIAN OLIGARCH's profit from by middle manning a bypass of them.

...LOL... GET THE LUBE AND PUCKER UP !

VRPdommy

I think inside traders had access to the data before the rest of us !

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/12/trad...jing-says.html

huey

Bump bump

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opinions are like assholes.................


"They aren't after me, they are AFTER YOU! Im just in their way"
-D.J. Trump

OneHungLo

You'll never see a positive economic thread out of him because he wants America to fail. He gets mad when the market bounces back. He gloats when the market tanks. He clearly doesn't even have 10 bucks in the market.

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Robbie

Bump.
Market goes up. Market goes down. Market goes up.

Only it has now regained ALL of it's losses in record time. lol

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Bladewire

You guys have hit a new low celebrating losing all of the years gains back to January 12th levels.

That's not good economic news you fucking morons

RedFred

And is still lower than it was in January.

OneHungLo

Imagine what the market would be without 7 interest rate hikes and no trade war? Trump is a genius. He passed those tax repatriation and cuts boosted the economy then started a trade war. Smart man doing God's work... The things you wanted (fighting China).

My guess is the trade war will end soon and end in our favor...right around when Trump's about to get elected for his second term. My guess is the market will be over 32k by then. Unfortunately for you you'll still be broke with not a buck in the market.

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“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

― Calvin Coolidge

Bladewire

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directfiesta

First, trade wars are HIS doing .

Now, just imagine if he would have been handed over a recession ( nearly a depression ) , unemployment near 10% ( but as Vendzilla/Robbie stated, more in the 20 % ) , housing market collapse ( I took advantage of that ), 3 car manufacturer on the brink of bankruptcy , still 2 unfunded wars going on, etc .... Just imagine ... how much of a genius ( Stable one ? ) he would have needed to be ....

Meanwhile:

As GOP Campaigns on Tax Cuts, Federal Deficit Jumps 17% to Its Highest Level Since 2012

While GOP Campaigns on Tax Cuts, U.S. Deficit Jumps 17% | Fortune

huey

This Kinda helped Obama

US QE1, QE2, and QE3
Federal Reserve Holdings of Treasury Notes (blue) and Mortgage-Backed Securities (red)

The U.S. Federal Reserve System held between $700 billion and $800 billion of Treasury notes on its balance sheet before the recession. In late November 2008, the Federal Reserve started buying $600 billion in mortgage-backed securities.[60] By March 2009, it held $1.75 trillion of bank debt, mortgage-backed securities, and Treasury notes; this amount reached a peak of $2.1 trillion in June 2010. Further purchases were halted as the economy started to improve, but resumed in August 2010 when the Fed decided the economy was not growing robustly. After the halt in June, holdings started falling naturally as debt matured and were projected to fall to $1.7 trillion by 2012. The Fed's revised goal became to keep holdings at $2.054 trillion. To maintain that level, the Fed bought $30 billion in two- to ten-year Treasury notes every month.[61]

Skip to QE3
Purchases were halted on 29 October 2014[77] after accumulating $4.5 trillion in assets.[

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"They aren't after me, they are AFTER YOU! Im just in their way"
-D.J. Trump

kane

And today Mitch McConnell said the deficit is alarming and they need to look at Social Security and Medicare reform as a means of fixing it. In short, they created the debt now they are blaming Democrats for it and are going to try to use that as an excuse. If they maintain control of both houses after the midterms look for Obamacare to be back on the chopping block along with Social Security and Medicare. Let's also not forget the part of the tax cut that triggers cuts from Medicaid to offset increased debt if we fall below 3% GDP annually.