It's harder to shoot porn today than it was back in the old days. - Page 15 - GoFuckYourself.com

Anthony · 03-18-2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I didn't deliver any spin. Dude, I live in a 5600 sq. foot house in Las Vegas that I just bought in 2008. I'm living VERY well thank you.

I made plenty of money for both myself and others. And you are dead wrong about TGP's

As I said earlier...I have respect for you as a photographer. And I won't show you any disrespect in any other way. But I think you're ignorant of what I do as an affiliate.

You keep saying that TGP's did this and tgp's did that. But you're dead wrong.

First off...most "tgp" sites that came around after the year 2000 weren't even "real" tgps. They were circle jerk scripts.

There were and are only a handful of REAL tgps. Yes, there are countless thousands of sites running a script. But only a handful of us real guys who had honest traffic.

As for "living in the past"...I'm not sure where you came up with that. I am only pointing out to you that we did not steal anything and we always made a LOT of money with all of our partners. I'm definitely not trying to claim that my tgp's have big traffic anymore. That's all over at Pornhub now. And who can blame the surfers? They have a choice of looking at galleries and reading my blog and then buying a membership OR seeing everything for free.

I can't compete against that. But I still make more money as an affiliate with my tgp's than most of the people (including you) in this thread. And by not "living in the past" I make 5 times that amount of money on Claudia-Marie's site.

That's not hype. I've shown people my stats both in private and right here on GFY a couple of times as well. I have nothing to hide and always welcome competition (unlike all the "mystery millionaires" here on GFY who can't tell you what their site is or what they actually do because someone will "steal" it)

I know you think you have it all figured out and that tubes were just a natural evolution of TGP's.

NO! They aren't. Illegit tubes have "user upload" which equals stolen content and are not designed to sell paysite memberships.

My tgp's on the other hand have NO stolen content and are designed totally to sell memberships.
It's not even the same business model...much less a tube "perfecting" anything.

We didn't "give away" free porn. We use promo tools given to us. I already explained to you a while back that there is a "sweet spot".

You are talking in theory on this subject...but I'm telling you as an expert who does it for a living. A hosted gallery with 12 pictures or 4 30 second clips will outsell any softcore advertising that you can think of. Day in and day out.

But NO advertising, soft or hard, works when the entire members areas of the sites you are trying to sell are being given away for free.

And again..NO... TGP's running galleries did not destroy magazines and DVD sales.

The convenience and privacy of the internet did that.

If ALL free porn on the internet was gone right now...and all you could do was buy a membership to a paysite online to see porn...Magazines and DVD sales would still be in the shitter and paysite sales would skyrocket.

It's not hosted galleries that killed us. That made incredible money for everybody for over 10 years online. That only stopped when illegit tubes like Pornhub (and of course bit torrent and file sharing sites) exploded and just started openly stealing everyone's content and hiding behind the DMCA law.

I know you don't believe me. But then again...selling porn online wasn't your expertise. It's mine. And I won't argue with you about a proper Fstop even though I do shoot a nice pic every once in a while.

I consider you to be more an expert and one thing I know is that when I meet someone who knows more than I do on a particular subject...I'm gonna listen. You should do the same.

Well done Robbie. Excellent read.

Agent 488 · 03-18-2011, 04:25 PM

cliff notes?

Mutt · 03-18-2011, 04:36 PM

amazing - a bunch of you clowns have managed to make Paul look like one of the more reasonable and intelligent people in the industry.

Robbie's the most on point in this thread, then Paul.

i was going to point fingers at the ass kissers in this thread but i thought better of it - everybody needs to make a living, what Brazzers and others have done to the industry is a done deal, for now anyway. i hate what they've done and Nathan's attitude but if I could get sales from his tube sites I'd take them. if there had been a concerted effort to battle the illegal tube sites and the file sharing operators i'd have supported it with money and whatever else needed but that never happened. I'd sue because I do believe that with any porn tube site that the veil of 'safe harbor protection' would be ripped to shreds quickly but everybody tells me that a lawsuit would cost upwards of 1 million dollars. I don't have that kind of money.

HarryMuff · 03-18-2011, 04:47 PM

Links Pulled.

Jim_Gunn · 03-18-2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

amazing - a bunch of you clowns have managed to make Paul look like one of the more reasonable and intelligent people in the industry.

Robbie's the most on point in this thread, then Paul.

i was going to point fingers at the ass kissers in this thread but i thought better of it - everybody needs to make a living, what Brazzers and others have done to the industry is a done deal, for now anyway. i hate what they've done and Nathan's attitude but if I could get sales from his tube sites I'd take them. if there had been a concerted effort to battle the illegal tube sites and the file sharing operators i'd have supported it with money and whatever else needed but that never happened. I'd sue because I do believe that with any porn tube site that the veil of 'safe harbor protection' would be ripped to shreds quickly but everybody tells me that a lawsuit would cost upwards of 1 million dollars. I don't have that kind of money.

As always Mutt, your analysis is pretty much on point, for better or for worse.

BVF · 03-18-2011, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReggieDurango

SORRY Guys, I am NOT trying to thread jack this AWESOME thread...

Then SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Robbie · 03-18-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVF

Then SHUT THE FUCK UP!

I'm so glad I put that guy on "ignore"
And so glad I never put you on it BVF

Paul Markham · 03-19-2011, 12:59 AM

I reviewed one of Reggie scenes and sent it to him. He agreed I could post it.

http://www.porn.com/porn-video/faye-...ani-95836.html

It start out nice, then it kind of gets too long

Some of the focusing is off and the fast cutting is making me dizzy, slow down.

Too close to the girls so they're bobbing in and out of focus.

OK the comedy is far too long. You have to understand the market that buys porn. The vast majority are guys who are afraid to ask a

girl in a bar, if she would like a drink. So girls lead porn scenes with the guy being pulled into it. This scenario is just off

putting and with the bad acting not getting my interest.

You're standing far too close to the people so you have a problem with their movements and focusing. Stand back and get all the

players in on the action. Try giving general directions of how the scenario works and see if the models have the brains to ad lib it.

If not shoot it in longer segments and give them instructions as you go along.

ACTION

The red head is giving the guy a BJ and her hair is over her face and his cock hiding the action. My first GF loved to give me BJs and

I knew I was in for one when she tied her hair back, in a scene with the girls leading they can do this.

Pussy cat in the room, get him out before the fucking starts.

At 11;20 the guy looks bored.!!!!!!

The blond girls character is plain annoying me.

24 minutes in and we're still on the BJ. This whole scene is far too long.

I don't know if the phone ringing was real or staged, but it could of been used so much better.
A dirty phone call while she's being fucked would of been awesome.

If the girl is on the guy on a sofa start with reverse cowgirl so we can see her face.

After 26 minutes I had seen enough.

The shooting is bad, angles poor, focusing terrible. What F stop were you shooting at?
The whole setting is too bland, too many pastel colors.

For me the scene doesn't work.

If you have 2 girls and 1 guy there are better scenarios.
1 girl is horny to fuck in front of her friend, who joins in the give a BJ
2 girls tease the guy into the action.
1 girl says her boyfriend is always telling her she gives lousy head and asks the other girl to teach her.
1 girl comes in to find the other 2 fucking. And joins in.
The guy comes in to see the 2 girls fucking. And joins in.
The guy is caught jerking off by his GF and her friend and they finish him off.
Etc. Etc. Etc.

The plots are endless, but it's always better if the girls lead the guy.
Setting the blond up as a bitch doesn't work unless she gets taught not to be a bitch.
Men who buy porn are scared of these girls.

The like the docile, compliant, willing, sex mad, instigators to make up for their lack of balls to ask a girl out on a date.

Paul Markham · 03-19-2011, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

amazing - a bunch of you clowns have managed to make Paul look like one of the more reasonable and intelligent people in the industry.

Robbie's the most on point in this thread, then Paul.

i was going to point fingers at the ass kissers in this thread but i thought better of it - everybody needs to make a living, what Brazzers and others have done to the industry is a done deal, for now anyway. i hate what they've done and Nathan's attitude but if I could get sales from his tube sites I'd take them. if there had been a concerted effort to battle the illegal tube sites and the file sharing operators i'd have supported it with money and whatever else needed but that never happened. I'd sue because I do believe that with any porn tube site that the veil of 'safe harbor protection' would be ripped to shreds quickly but everybody tells me that a lawsuit would cost upwards of 1 million dollars. I don't have that kind of money.

Thanks for the compliment.

Tubes are here to stay, so is file sharing. Unless we have massive Government intervention and it's enforced.

The industry seems powerless to fight them in anyway so they keep doing what they have been doing for the last 15 years. Filling sites with the same kind of content and hoping if they throw enough traffic at it somebody will buy. Yes there own stats are showing them that every month they need more traffic to achieve the same number of sign ups.

I suspect even Manwin's sites are the same. Fabian will say differently and a few sponsor will chime in how well they're doing ad some will boast to doing even better today. But without massive traffic increases I don't see how. And that still means ratios are dropping.

I saw the damage free content was doing to the other sides of the industry and now it's doing the same to this side of the industry. And there's no way out of it. Without a lot of very stringent laws that no one would welcome.

Except for a few for a little while. By raising the level of what's inside the site rather than raising the level of what's outside the site. Some will have a longer career in porn than others. Eventually for the vast majority of consumers porn will be accepted as a free product and the willingness to pay will be a thing of the past for most of them. A few will, but what will it fund and what will they demand?

The problem is with the cost of maintaining what's outside the site, few can afford to raise the level of their members areas. Manwin can and doesn't. Brazzers is all right content but by no means great. Some of the scenes don't deserve hosting space and should be deleted with no loss at all. Mofos content is very poor and there are no excuses. The mistakes are elementary and easily avoided. The problem is the "contract" shooters don't have someone over their heads kicking butt and teaching them.

DamianJ · 03-19-2011, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

. I'd sue because I do believe that with any porn tube site that the veil of 'safe harbor protection' would be ripped to shreds quickly but everybody tells me that a lawsuit would cost upwards of 1 million dollars. I don't have that kind of money.

Shame silly old Viacom employed such shitty lawyers in their case against YouTube, eh?

Paul Markham · 03-19-2011, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Shame silly old Viacom employed such shitty lawyers in their case against YouTube, eh?

We agree on something.

The idea of spending even $10,000 to sue a pirate site is stupid. Because eventually it will need to be repeated over and over and over again. Suing one and winning doesn't stop others filling the gap. That's if the porn company wins.

What would be the outcome of a successful case? That the site no longer hosts a particular companies porn or stops hosting any porn? Unless proof comes out they are breaking the law in some way, then it's just one brand of porn. With so much porn the same the whole thing is pointless.

And what if the whole thing works like a dream and all pirated porn is shut down?

Surfers flood to the free Tube with the most legal content on. Well enough of them to make the whole exercise pointless for the industry.

Only those with something truly unique and individual will get any benefit. And they're on the fringes of the industry, because when something becomes that unique and individual it can lose a lot of it's appeal. Unless the quality of the porn is so high and mainstream it still has wide appeal.

Cherry7 · 03-19-2011, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I didn't deliver any spin. Dude, I live in a 5600 sq. foot house in Las Vegas that I just bought in 2008. I'm living VERY well thank you.

. You should do the same.

Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading your post, on the point and interesting.

ReggieDurango · 03-19-2011, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVF

Then SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Continue provoking me, BVF... please

ReggieDurango · 03-19-2011, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I reviewed one of Reggie scenes and sent it to him. He agreed I could post it.

http://www.porn.com/porn-video/faye-...ani-95836.html

It start out nice, then it kind of gets too long

Some of the focusing is off and the fast cutting is making me dizzy, slow down.

Too close to the girls so they're bobbing in and out of focus.

OK the comedy is far too long. You have to understand the market that buys porn. The vast majority are guys who are afraid to ask a

girl in a bar, if she would like a drink. So girls lead porn scenes with the guy being pulled into it. This scenario is just off

putting and with the bad acting not getting my interest.

You're standing far too close to the people so you have a problem with their movements and focusing. Stand back and get all the

players in on the action. Try giving general directions of how the scenario works and see if the models have the brains to ad lib it.

If not shoot it in longer segments and give them instructions as you go along.

ACTION

The red head is giving the guy a BJ and her hair is over her face and his cock hiding the action. My first GF loved to give me BJs and

I knew I was in for one when she tied her hair back, in a scene with the girls leading they can do this.

Pussy cat in the room, get him out before the fucking starts.

At 11;20 the guy looks bored.!!!!!!

The blond girls character is plain annoying me.

24 minutes in and we're still on the BJ. This whole scene is far too long.

I don't know if the phone ringing was real or staged, but it could of been used so much better.
A dirty phone call while she's being fucked would of been awesome.

If the girl is on the guy on a sofa start with reverse cowgirl so we can see her face.

After 26 minutes I had seen enough.

The shooting is bad, angles poor, focusing terrible. What F stop were you shooting at?
The whole setting is too bland, too many pastel colors.

For me the scene doesn't work.

If you have 2 girls and 1 guy there are better scenarios.
1 girl is horny to fuck in front of her friend, who joins in the give a BJ
2 girls tease the guy into the action.
1 girl says her boyfriend is always telling her she gives lousy head and asks the other girl to teach her.
1 girl comes in to find the other 2 fucking. And joins in.
The guy comes in to see the 2 girls fucking. And joins in.
The guy is caught jerking off by his GF and her friend and they finish him off.
Etc. Etc. Etc.

The plots are endless, but it's always better if the girls lead the guy.
Setting the blond up as a bitch doesn't work unless she gets taught not to be a bitch.
Men who buy porn are scared of these girls.

The like the docile, compliant, willing, sex mad, instigators to make up for their lack of balls to ask a girl out on a date.

Thanks for doing the review Paul! Somehow, deep-down, I guess I knew that you'd be the first one to actually WATCH and respond to my content!
BUT, PAUL, as JustDave alluded, discussion of my content is STRICTLY prohibited in this thread! So, STOP TRYING TO THREAD-JACK YOUR OWN THREAD, PAUL!

HAHA.

Paul, please re-post your impressive review in THIS thread:
https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1014170&page=2

This is NOT thread-jacking, you morons, this is thread-annexing

Paul Markham · 03-19-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I didn't deliver any spin. Dude, I live in a 5600 sq. foot house in Las Vegas that I just bought in 2008. I'm living VERY well thank you.

I made plenty of money for both myself and others. And you are dead wrong about TGP's

As I said earlier...I have respect for you as a photographer. And I won't show you any disrespect in any other way. But I think you're ignorant of what I do as an affiliate.

You keep saying that TGP's did this and tgp's did that. But you're dead wrong.

Not going to quote the whole thing because it's been read.

You missed my point by a mile.

It is. The business plan of the Adult Internet was to give away as much free porn as possible and spend as much as possible doing it. Those doing it called it marketing.

Over the years surfers were taught that porn is free and paying for it isn't necessary.

In the beginning they were 10 softcore small images and at most 4 10 second clips. As the leap frogging continued the decent TGP sites wouldn't accept these kind of galleries, always looking for more and more to keep surfing numbers high. A lot of people were screaming that too much free HC was hurting sales. But TGP sites made the rules.

Who says none of the content was stolen?

We were constantly chasing affiliates of certain sites who had Carte Blanche to use anything they wanted. AFF were one of the worse.

Tubes are just an extension of this trend. Crying that they are illegal is pointless. If they remove content on receipt of a DMCA they're legal. Unless you have proof of anything else. Which to date no one has come up with. User Uploads are legal. Uploading content not owned by the uploader isn't. So go sue those uploaders.

Yes they use gaps in the law. But as the majority of online porn workers want an unregulated Internet. They want less laws governing porn. Crying it's illegal is kind of about face.

It is what it is. Live with it. And yes you live in the past like I do. We both would like to it like it was 5-6 years ago. But crying about what is, is about the extent of what most here do.

***********************

ReggieDurango posted it for you.

Agent 488 · 03-19-2011, 09:55 AM

ReggieDurango enough with the thread jacks. you have been warned as per gfy rule 13 subsection 4.

Paul Markham · 03-19-2011, 11:16 AM

While TGP site owners and affiliates were earning so much money. I wonder if any of them stopped to think of the long term consequences? Includes sponsors as well.

By far and away the biggest cost to a site was promoting it. Rev share starting at 50%, PS at $25. Plus affiliates demanded every tool possible, all the content possible, hosting, banners, support and higher payments if they passed certain figures. I have been asked for exorbitant amounts for a sign up. Plus every thing done for the affiliate.

Decent TGPs, not the cycle jerks that pissed off surfers seriously looking to buy, wanted paying for top spots, banners and then partner accounts.

And then there was promotion to get affiliates, all cost money.

All this cost money and no one bothered where it came from so long as it came. Some didn't even bother if the customer got ripped off, stolen from or just sold a bad site. All that mattered was the money.

So where was it found?

Hosting - No, that's pretty well fixed depending on the BW and in the early days a significant cost.

CC Processing - No again fixed according to turn over.

Programming, design, are one off.

Admin - Yes some worked from their bedrooms and acted like big shots. In truth they weren't.

Content - YES. The cost of what the surfer was buying was cut to the bone. ATK, Karups, Mayers money and many more thought $300 to $400 a full solo girl scene outright was top dollar.

Lesbian scenes were a bit better at $1,000-$1,200 a scene. No where compares with what a lesbian set is really worth.

HC was anything from $1,000 to $2,000. Again doesn't compare with what it could be worth.

And then there were the people who thought all it took to shoot porn was a camera and lights.

The consequences are plain to see. Affiliates are pricing themselves out of the market. The sites are full of the same dull content and the surfer thinks Porn Tubes are better than paysites.

Anyone who spoke up and said the content is crap, me, was told to STFU because I didn't know what I was talking about.

Tubes are better than paysites because they meet consumers needs better than paysites. Crying about them being illegal is useless. They are not until convicted in a court and even if one was. The surfers would move th\o the next free Tube site. Because they think they're better than paysites. Free is only part of the problem.

The lousiest excuse in selling is "No one buying today. It is easily answered with, that's because no one is really selling. Loading free sites with free porn is the lowest form of selling.

And to sell a repeat buy product the product has to be worth it. Many are not and the consumer knows it.

A few sites do stand out. I'm talking about in general.

Robbie · 03-19-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It is. The business plan of the Adult Internet was to give away as much free porn as possible and spend as much as possible doing it. Those doing it called it marketing.

Over the years surfers were taught that porn is free and paying for it isn't necessary.

In the beginning they were 10 softcore small images and at most 4 10 second clips. As the leap frogging continued the decent TGP sites wouldn't accept these kind of galleries, always looking for more and more to keep surfing numbers high. A lot of people were screaming that too much free HC was hurting sales. But TGP sites made the rules.

Who says none of the content was stolen?

Didn't quote your whole post either...just the part you are incorrect about.

The business plan of the Adult Internet was to make money. And we did. It's not what you are saying at all. I didn't "give away" anything. I used marketing tools and made sales like crazy.

That is NOT a failed plan. That was a VERY VERY SUCCESSFUL business model.
And no, in the beginning it wasn't softcore images. It was hardcore right out the gate.

I remember going on the tour of the Wetlands site. And that was without a doubt the biggest porn site on the internet back in the early days of the web. And even though I was on a 28.8 k modem connection...I wanted to wait that 5 minutes it took to see that picture of the black guy fucking that redhead on the tour.

It was hardcore from the get go for the successful pay sites and the successful free sites. Paul...I'm not in it to give away stolen porn to sell dating. I'm in to show samples to sell paysites.

It has nothing to do with "leapfrogging" on my part.

You are 100% correct about tubes and bittorrents and file sharing sites. But they are NOT the same business model.
They are not designed to sell paysite memberships. Matter of fact they are designed to DESTROY them. They steal content and sell everything but porn.

Please don't compare what I do to what they do. It's two completely different things. An illegit tube like Pornhub is NOT an evolutionary progression of a real TGP. It's a new animal with a completely different income stream.

The only thing that ties it to porn is that it uses porn to sell products. But it ain't selling porn.

I'm in the business of selling porn. They are not. They see stolen porn as a draw to create at traffic source that they can monetize in an ever decreasing way.

I see porn galleries as a way to present a sample of what's inside a members area to sell a membership (which works great...until the tube site gives away the entire members area)

As far as living in the past goes...I do keep my tgp's running. I work on them every day.

When the new copyright laws DO come and what Pornhub and file sharing sites and bit torrents are doing right now becomes illegal...my tgp's MAY become monsters again. If that happens I'll be ready.

In the meantime...I was the first paysite to actually use the technology and take a tube script and hack it up into the actual tour and members area (yeah, everybody else is doing it NOW...but we did it almost 3 years ago) and I was one of the first to protect my content and keep the majority of it off the pirate sites and watched our sales & rebills rise while everyone else has watched their income fall.

Just because I'm trying to explain to you that REAL tgp's were/are great marketing and have nothing in common with a site like Pornhub doesn't mean I haven't been on the cutting edge of what I do. No need to try and insult me over and over.

I pride myself on working hard and staying ahead of the game. I think I'm pretty good at that...and I have to say that to have you tell me I'm "living in the past", when I've been busting ass to stay ahead of everyone as best I can...kinda hurts.

I think you should save that kind of thing for people who deserve it. Neither I, nor any of the people that I consider to be my true peers are the cause of what's happening today.

Some of the guys I see with high traffic tube sites now...are the same old guys who were scamming and running circle jerks back in 2000. Same guys, same bullshit. I never considered them to be in the same business as me back then, and I don't consider them to be now.

Agent 488 · 03-19-2011, 11:27 AM

paul the march towards "free" on the internet has nothing to do with the porn industry. there are much larger issues at play here. so instead of writing some long dreary essay post no one will read or do another wolf howling at the moon puzzle read about the founders and history of the internet.

you are better selling cabbages in the village square if you can't grasp and profit from "free" in the internet.

03-19-2011, 11:35 AM

Whats the latest ?

ReggieDurango · 03-19-2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

ReggieDurango enough with the thread jacks. you have been warned as per gfy rule 13 subsection 4.

Are you fucking kidding me?
If so, kudos to you, fine comedian!
If not, WTF? Who runs GFY? Eric? Can we ban this fool FINALLY? He didn't break any rules - he's just got an IQ below 30, so not fit to post here with the rest of the humans.

Kiopa_Matt · 03-19-2011, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The consequences are plain to see.

That you forgot to adapt to the evolving market?

Seriously, blaming market conditions is one of the worst things you could do as a business owner. To a point it's fine, but you're crossing the line.

ReggieDurango · 03-19-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent 488 View Post
ReggieDurango enough with the thread jacks. you have been warned as per gfy rule 13 subsection 4.

Wait, wait just a minute, there IS NO GFY RULE 13 SUBSECTION 4!?! !!! Agent 488, you've been clowning me the WHOLE time?!? HAHAHAHAHA

Fellow digital-thesbian? friend? ...brother?

Doubt it, you're still a dick!!!

INever · 03-19-2011, 01:48 PM

There's a thread running that brings up the point that GOOGLE excludes pirate results from its mainstream movie/film searches. https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1014681

That's because Hollywood is organized and they made GOOGLE an offer they could not refuse.

Either adult is NOT organized and that's why GOOGLE results for porn movies/films/sites are consistently pirate sites now.

Or, the GOOGLE search results are an engine of "policy" designed to destroy the adult business by flooding the market.

Agent 488 · 03-19-2011, 01:50 PM

the person who started that thread is confused on how google works and ranks. thete is no such thing going on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by INever

There's a thread running that brings up the point that GOOGLE excludes pirate results from its mainstream movie/film searches.

That's because Hollywood is organized and they made GOOGLE an offer they could not refuse.

Either adult is NOT organized and that's why GOOGLE results for porn movies/films/sites are consistently pirate sites now.

Or, the GOOGLE search results are an engine of "policy" designed to destroy the adult business by flooding the market.

ReggieDurango · 03-19-2011, 04:06 PM

Stop thread-jacking Agent 488

Paul Markham · 03-20-2011, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt

That you forgot to adapt to the evolving market?

Seriously, blaming market conditions is one of the worst things you could do as a business owner. To a point it's fine, but you're crossing the line.

Another one who can't see the point.

So here it is.

The cost of promoting sites was far far too high. The cost of filling the sites (what the customer paid for) was far far too low.

The consequences of that was sites were full of crap to poor content. Some shot by shooters whose content in the glory days, not today, wouldn't sell 10 times @ $50 a scene non exclusive. Shooters who didn't have a snow balls chance in hell of selling a set to a magazine non exclusive for $1,000. Let alone selling it over ad over again and making 3 times that.

Then there were people who thought all it needed was a camera and naked people to shoot porn. Maybe it does, but not GOOD porn.

This meant the entry level to open a site was about the lowest thing in the business. Even DVTimes manages it. So a saturation of sites all competing for the same customers and the only way to get them was to give affiliates every tool in the box.

Which meant 10,000s of affiliates. From Robbie making a sign up every second to DVTimes. Again all competing for the same customers.

And the only way most knew how to compete was to load the site Internet with more free content. And load their sites with more crap content.

So in the end it was too many people chasing too few customers who were getting fewer and fewer.

Then Tubes hit the game and the idea of giving away free content to get a sign up per 1,000 surfers came to fruition. And people blame the fact that they have user uploaded content and call it illegal. Well that's a red herring. The truth is even if by some fluke they had to remove all unlicensed content, PornHub and a small number of porn Tubes would still be where they are today. BECAUSE the cost of content is so low they can afford to buy enough to keep their traffic.

And their traffic prefers free Tubes to paysites, for more reasons than the free part. If you can't sell porn for $1 a day, or lower, something is wrong. Could it possible be your sites aren't worth $1 a day and you haven't evolved and adapted?

Basically the online porn industry lowered the bar so low it saturated itself and not with customers. It's saturated with suppliers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt

That you forgot to adapt to the evolving market?

Seriously, blaming market conditions is one of the worst things you could do as a business owner. To a point it's fine, but you're crossing the line.

Funny post. I've adapted to the changing markets far more than anyone here.

Started selling photos via mail order.
Then sold sets to magazines and via brokers, which we still do.
Then sold videos mail order.
Then sold videos to large video companies, Met Homegrown long long ago, didn't do a deal as we couldn't agree on price.
Then went to full time magazine shooter and selling HC to video distributors.
Then sold via brokers on the Internet, like Scarlett.
Then opened a content store.
Then opened another one to cover a different market.
Then sold to mobile phone companies.
Then opened a paysite and then another one full of content I shot in the 80s and 90s.

Now adapted to what I expect to be my last move. Sitting back and sad that this industry is where it is today, it's helplessness in the face of a threat lack on innovation and adaptation.

Adaptation Adult Internet style = Keep up with the new trends in giving away free porn. As cameras improve by the latest one.

Otherwise what does adaptation online mean?

Quote:

Or, the GOOGLE search results are an engine of "policy" designed to destroy the adult business by flooding the market.

Its making porn more viewed than it ever was. Just less profitable. Don't forget Traffic is King.

Paul Markham · 03-20-2011, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altwebdesign

Whats the latest ?

Either Fabian has changed his mind or he's on holiday. He's been very absent for a few days.

plsureking · 03-20-2011, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Another one who can't see the point.

sooner or later you should probably realize that if no one agrees with you then maybe you are the one that's wrong. as Robbie pointed out, you are an expert in ONE field of this industry. that's it!

i am not an expert (or even a novice) in content production but i can whip your ass in development and marketing. stick to what you know. on the other stuff, stfu.

ps. post my site copy again. it was great for sales.

pss. hope all is well in cz.

DamianJ · 03-20-2011, 05:56 AM

I just love how now Paul is so tangled up in his own trolling all he can do is repeat the incorrect things he has said, that people have proven to be incorrect, in bold.

I KNOW YOU HAVE SHOWN ME TO BE TOTALLY WRONG, I AM IGNORING YOUR POINT AND REPEATING MYSELF, BUT IN BOLD.

Genius debating.

Maybe he'll put people on ignore too, and copy the Robbie style of discussion.

Robbie "Point"
Someone "Counterpoint"
Robbie "FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING RETARD YOU'RE ON IGNORE"

Awesome.

Paul Markham · 03-20-2011, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plsureking

sooner or later you should probably realize that if no one agrees with you then maybe you are the one that's wrong. as Robbie pointed out, you are an expert in ONE field of this industry. that's it!

i am not an expert (or even a novice) in content production but i can whip your ass in development and marketing. stick to what you know. on the other stuff, stfu.

ps. post my site copy again. it was great for sales.

pss. hope all is well in cz.

No one agrees because they all went down the same road. Getting them to admit it isn't working today is a long shot. Even when it obviously isn't.

The number of customers isn't infinite. Especially when the main way of billing them is via credit cards. So the more people dipping into the trough of customers the less there is to share.

Once Tubes hit the market it was again obvious traffic wasn't king, sign ups were and then content because traffic will go to where the most content is and the best selection of it is. To achieve that in the world post Tubes the adult Internet has to completely re-think it's strategy. Yet it hasn't it keeps going down the same route.

So getting people to admit it isn't working is hopeless. They would rather use red herrings like illegal and stolen. When it's painfully obvious THE ONLY REASON TUBES EXIST AND TAKE THE TRAFFIC is because customers prefer them and the cost of BW makes it affordable.

My fields of expertise are Fashion Design, Selling, porn and BUSINESS. As I've been self employed for 22 years and run a business as a sideline for 33 years. This is without the years I had a market stall and was self employed. That was way back.

There are many better porn shooters than me, but they lacked the skills to run a business and didn't make the money I made.

Your expertise in marketing is telling newbies it's easy to open a paysite and once they do it, they will make money.

Actually debate what I said and don't just come up with empty statements. Tell me why it's still working. Why making opening a paysite and making money is easy. Why making the entry level to opening a paysite is the best route. Why making it easy to be an affiliate is the best route. Why throwing 100,000s of images and minutes at surfers for free is good marketing. For the business not for the few.

DamianJ · 03-20-2011, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The number of customers isn't infinite.

True. It's growing massively everyday.

justinsain · 03-20-2011, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

.......The number of customers isn't infinite. Especially when the main way of billing them is via credit cards. So the more people dipping into the trough of customers the less there is to share......

While today there may be a finite number of customers available there will always be new ones coming to the internet or coming of age where they are able purchase porn. It's the same as adult models. Today there are only a finite number of models doing porn but there will always be more coming of age.

Now for a few questions.

You seem to point the finger at everyone else as screwing up. Do you consider yourself as one that made the same mistakes?

With YOUR paysite did you get to the point where you were GIVING your members daily updates?

Did you do the FREE three day trial membership deal GIVING your paysite members a FREE look at your content?

Did you GIVE at least a 50-50 split to your affiliates and GIVE too much content to them to promote with?

How can you tell everyone that they have the same old content that's been done over and over creating a saturated market and diss photographers for shooting exclusive when YOUR business is selling the SAME photo and video packages OVER and OVER?

If money is the measurement you use to determine success or failure, how can you sit here and tell people like Robbie and Fabian they are doing it wrong when they have made and CONTINUE to make far more money than you?

Looking forward to your answers

2intense · 03-20-2011, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm so glad I put that guy on "ignore"
And so glad I never put you on it BVF

Kiopa_Matt · 03-20-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Another one who can't see the point.

No, I see the point. My point though is, you're only measure of success seems to be the QUALITY of porn produced, and that's it. You don't seem to think outside of that, which is a bad way to go about things, especially in an online world that drastically changes almost every year. That, and you're a producer, so you see porn films very differently than some guy jerking off to his computer.

Maybe you can make good coin without the highest quality porn that can be shot. Who would have thought...

justinsain · 03-20-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt

No, I see the point. My point though is, you're only measure of success seems to be the QUALITY of porn produced, and that's it. You don't seem to think outside of that, which is a bad way to go about things, especially in an online world that drastically changes almost every year. That, and you're a producer, so you see porn films very differently than some guy jerking off to his computer.

Maybe you can make good coin without the highest quality porn that can be shot. Who would have thought...

That's what I don't get.

A few posts above he goes on about his vast business experience but he doesn't seem to grasp the fact that the most important factor in running a business is that you turn a profit. You don't need the very best content paid for at the highest price to be profitable. You can buy or create some average content and still turn a profit.

You can buy cheap content and spend a lot of money selling it but as long as you turn a profit you're successful. It's about what's in your budget and how you spread and spend it accordingly.

I've read through this entire thread and it's apparent to me that the root of his rantings is based on two things. The fact that two very unfortunate things happened that forced him into retirement which would be hard for anyone to face and deal with. The fact that in his prime his work commanded top dollar but has been significantly devalued today because of the internet.

Two things that completely changed his familiar and comfortable life. It's more than enough to make one bitter or bat shit crazy and I've found myself in the same position but under different circumstances. I liked reading this thread but now it's just painful to hear him go on and on not knowing where his place is. I hope he finds it. I'm still looking for mine

plsureking · 03-20-2011, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

No one agrees... So getting people to admit it isn't working is hopeless... There are many better porn shooters than me.

the only way to debate you is to use your words because that's the only words you read.

again putting words in my mouth. i tell my customers that it is easy to open a paysite using PornCMS. i never tell them it is easy to make money. fucking quote me you old has-been.

i tell my customers that the real work is AFTER you open the paysite. i have many current customers making a profit. i am sorry your piece of shit site with decade old content is not making $10k+ a month. maybe you should hire Damian and start making a living instead of telling everybody how smart you are. the only thing that matters at the end of the day is if you survive. you will be a ghost in 2 years. i will be here for another 20. so fuck you.

tell me i'm wrong. its expected.

Paul Markham · 03-20-2011, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinsain

While today there may be a finite number of customers available there will always be new ones coming to the internet or coming of age where they are able purchase porn. It's the same as adult models. Today there are only a finite number of models doing porn but there will always be more coming of age.

Good luck selling porn to 18 year olds. LOL

Quote:

You seem to point the finger at everyone else as screwing up. Do you consider yourself as one that made the same mistakes?

Not with saturating my main markets. If we found a top girl we shot her 10 times max. So the 10 sets were great sellers. Shooting the same girl 20 times wouldn't necessarily make twice the money. Like doubling the number of DVDs on a shelf or porn sites or affiliates. Unless it's in a market/niche that's starved of dvds, sites or affiliates.

Quote:

With YOUR paysite did you get to the point where you were GIVING your members daily updates?

We started out with that and then went to rotating content. The magazines were our bread and butter and when the demand of them tailed off we slowed down shooting. We do have 2,500 + sets and 1,000 + videos

Quote:

Did you do the FREE three day trial membership deal GIVING your paysite members a FREE look at your content?

No we do better than that. We allow them to see what they're buying before they enter any info in. http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com/members_tour/index.php Surfers are educated today and know a lot of 3 days trials or just a con, free or paid. A LOT of our income comes from people signing up for just 3 days over and over and over again.

Quote:

Did you GIVE at least a 50-50 split to your affiliates and GIVE too much content to them to promote with?

Yes, guilty as charged. Otherwise I wouldn't have any affiliates as it was the route we all HAd to go down. Because that's the way everyone else did it.

Quote:

How can you tell everyone that they have the same old content that's been done over and over creating a saturated market and diss photographers for shooting exclusive when YOUR business is selling the SAME photo and video packages OVER and OVER?

Because we made a lot more money than they did. Either they're bad at marketing, business or shooting. Or like working for a smaller living.

Quote:

If money is the measurement you use to determine success or failure, how can you sit here and tell people like Robbie and Fabian they are doing it wrong when they have made and CONTINUE to make far more money than you?

Because as a shooter I made more than any other shooter only here. By selling my content over and over and over again. I have no real knowledge of what Robbie makes. But know when I see something that raise my eyebrows. A sign up every second as an affilite would make him the richest man on porn by now. He would of been earning $54,000 a hour @ 60 x 60 x $15 = $54,000

$1,296,000 a day.

$473,040,000 a year.

Even at 1 a minute he would of been on close to $8 million a year. I would say probably a lot lower than he says. Unless he's sitting on a beach in the Bahamas posting for the fun of it. No he's still having to work hard with a site of CM fucking people.

As for Fabian, I have no idea of what he earns. And that's one of the problems with Manwin. It's shrouded in mystery.

All I do know is Lensman sold his entire business, during the good years, for $9 million. Not a great deal of money in the porn business and nothing like a great deal of money in the real business world. And everyone here envied him. Like he had won the lottery.

It was a nice figure to be sure, but not a really big sum like many here think.

Today, which is what pays the bills. No one would buy it for 1/10 of that.

I always question whether I would of been better off opening a paysite earlier and throwing more resources at it. I always come up with the same questions.

What effect would it have on our current sources of income?
Did I know enough about online paysites and affiliates?
Would we fail like I saw so many fail?

Do you remember all the sites that didn't make it or scraped a living? I do, I met some of them at shows. It's not as easy as plsureking makes out. I wasn't some green newbie thinking porn was an easy game.

It was a gamble and we took it in about 2005 and it's done all right, but nothing like the content stores or sales to magazines.

Paul Markham · 03-20-2011, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinsain

That's what I don't get.

A few posts above he goes on about his vast business experience but he doesn't seem to grasp the fact that the most important factor in running a business is that you turn a profit. You don't need the very best content paid for at the highest price to be profitable. You can buy or create some average content and still turn a profit.

You can buy cheap content and spend a lot of money selling it but as long as you turn a profit you're successful. It's about what's in your budget and how you spread and spend it accordingly.

I've read through this entire thread and it's apparent to me that the root of his rantings is based on two things. The fact that two very unfortunate things happened that forced him into retirement which would be hard for anyone to face and deal with. The fact that in his prime his work commanded top dollar but has been significantly devalued today because of the internet.

Two things that completely changed his familiar and comfortable life. It's more than enough to make one bitter or bat shit crazy and I've found myself in the same position but under different circumstances. I liked reading this thread but now it's just painful to hear him go on and on not knowing where his place is. I hope he finds it. I'm still looking for mine

You missed my point.

It was easy to get some average content and then throw a lot of traffic at it.

IT ISN'T TODAY. THE GAME HAS CHANGED.

Adapt to 2011. Average content is free on loads of Tubes. Average content means low retention. Average content means fewer customers returning. Average content means the surfer looking to buy KNOWS it's average and everywhere, so lees people clicking on a link or type in. Average content means your site is one of 100s if not 1,000s.

All this means average content needs a lot of very expensive and good marketing to achieve decent results.

You've obviously not read my threads and posts for the last 10 years. My message has been constant. Got nothing to do with being retired and no longer able to earn what we earned in 2005/6 my best years ever in business. Along with a lot of others.

Eva's accident and my cancer didn't force us into retirement. The demise of most magazines, the shit money paid for content AND the fact we made enough money to be ABLE to retire in comfort made the decision for us. You can keep working away, I'm off to watch TV.

Paul Markham · 03-20-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plsureking

the only way to debate you is to use your words because that's the only words you read.

again putting words in my mouth. i tell my customers that it is easy to open a paysite using PornCMS. i never tell them it is easy to make money. fucking quote me you old has-been.

i tell my customers that the real work is AFTER you open the paysite. i have many current customers making a profit. i am sorry your piece of shit site with decade old content is not making $10k+ a month. maybe you should hire Damian and start making a living instead of telling everybody how smart you are. the only thing that matters at the end of the day is if you survive. you will be a ghost in 2 years. i will be here for another 20. so fuck you.

tell me i'm wrong. its expected.

Quote:

1. Signup for a Porn CMS account
2. Configure your site settings
3. Upload or Import your Content
4. Sign up for a paysite billing account
5. Go live and make money!

You should tell them a bit clearer then.

$10,000 a month

Seriously you clown. That's kind of the level of this business. Someone is boasting he has some clients who barely make 6 figures a year. You condemn yourself if you think %120k is a lot of money.

We had days we made that money and not the odd day either. Today we're not. But we still make enough to be able to laugh at you. Keep working on the newbies.

I may close everything down in 2 years. I've had clowns like you telling me that for the last 10 years. You will be here because you HAVE to. I'm here because I WANT to.

Or do you think this is great marketing?

As for Damian.

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

This clown of a marketer is clueless.

Robbie · 03-20-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I have no real knowledge of what Robbie makes. But know when I see something that raise my eyebrows. A sign up every second as an affilite would make him the richest man on porn by now. He would of been earning $54,000 a hour @ 60 x 60 x $15 = $54,000

$1,296,000 a day.

$473,040,000 a year.

Even at 1 a minute he would of been on close to $8 million a year. I would say probably a lot lower than he says. Unless he's sitting on a beach in the Bahamas posting for the fun of it. No he's still having to work hard with a site of CM fucking people.

Paul why are you trying to screw with me? I never said I made a sale every second. I never said I made a sale every minute.

I said we had a running joke that everytime I blinked my eyes I was making money. It was a joke Paul. A company joke. "Hey I just blinked my eyes and made a dollar!"

I have done nothing but pay you the respect you deserve for your craft...and yet you try to belittle me in post after post by misquoting me and ridiculing me. I DO work hard. I ALWAYS have worked hard. I LOVE working hard. I can barely stand to take a vacation and must have a laptop with me to work while on "vacation" because I love what I do.

I never plan on "retiring" ever. I have been in the entertainment business since I was 8 years old (1969) playing guitar around the country. And whether it was playing in a band around the world as an adult, working in a male strip show, working professional wrestling shows, choreographing and putting together shows for female feature dancing, selling porn, or creating porn...I LOVE being in the entertainment business and have found that the same basic premise works for all of it.

I'm glad you were able to retire and are happy with that. We are different personality types. That's all.

As far as how much money I made as an affiliate...I have posted my stats many times on here. At my height as an affiliate in 2007 I was making an average of $90,000 a month on my TGP's.

Now in 2011 with the pirate sites at full strength...my income as an affiliate averages around $25,000 a month. A HUGE drop. I can't force people to buy memberships when they have left my freesites in droves to see EVERYTHING for free on Pornhub.

So I keep them running because...well, they still make 25 grand a month.

CM's paysite is my new money machine. And it allows me to wait out this entire mess until new copyright laws come into effect.

DamianJ · 03-20-2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

As for Damian.

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

This clown of a marketer is clueless.

So a market growing 448% is, er, bad?

I have no idea why posting a link to a page that confirms my earlier post makes me clownesque though? Do explain your genius for the dim-witted.

Or do you jus' be trollin? ;) ;) ;)

PS Great work being so rude to Robbie. His buttons are easier to push than yours! Should carry the thread on for a while. I suggest you get Will or Gideon involved next week to continue your massively brilliant spam.

justinsain · 03-20-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You missed my point....

Eva's accident and my cancer didn't force us into retirement. The demise of most magazines, the shit money paid for content AND the fact we made enough money to be ABLE to retire in comfort made the decision for us. You can keep working away, I'm off to watch TV.

It's hard to believe after reading the following quotes which you made previously in this thread that you retired ONLY because you weren't getting paid what you felt was just. Now ask yourself, were you ready and willing to retire in the days BEFORE your major setbacks or after them when you didn't have a choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

As I said if anyone pays me $3,000 for a set I will come back to shooting. I wish more would, I won't be invalid for ever I hope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I'm looking forward to shooting it actually. I'm doing more for my satisfaction than anything else. It will be nice to see after the last 2.5 years of events if I can shoot again.
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

This piece of broke shit has made a nice living for the last 2.5 years without doing any shooting or much work. Eva sends a few emails every month to content store customers and affiliates. And will continue to. Most of other shooters only, wouldn't last that long. Mainly because they give everything or nearly everything away. Not bad for a piece of shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

l.
Yes I lost my hunger for shooting scenes for $500 a throw. Or BG for $3,000. Give me $3,000 for solo and see me lick my lips and give up the retired life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

My job is "Photographer and Managing Director" from that I'm officially invalided.
Doing a few updates on the site isn't real work. Posting is a hobby. Retired officially isn't my title. Retired from real work is just a term for a person who does very little.

Eva is not sole owner and runner of the company. It takes her a few hours a week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

My job is photographer and managing director. I'm physically unable to do them as I need to sleep during the day. I'm willing to give Fabian a shot at doing a video for him. Will be interesting to see what I can do.

Sorry typed it wrong. Eva is NOW sole owner of the company. My mistake, keep flaming instead of debating the subject. That's will solve everything.

Need to get moving on this as I can only manage a few hours a day without a nap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

As for being better now, no way physically. I'm 3 years out of shooting, invalid and no where near what I was physically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Fabian's called me out to get some Bro points. He didn't think it through. He didn't think I'm not well enough to shoot it properly.

I said I would come back if somebody would pay $3,000 for a set.

To come out of retirement I need more than 1 scene.

plsureking · 03-20-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You should tell them a bit clearer then.

$10,000 a month

you are so irrelevant. so someone that pays $45 a month for their website plus some content is a clown for making over $9k in profit?

man you make my points for me.

plsureking · 03-20-2011, 11:29 AM

lol also funny - everybody in this thread that disagrees with grandpa markham is a clown. keep calling us clowns. you'll be dead soon.

The Porn Nerd · 03-20-2011, 12:06 PM

So where do we get the traffic today then?

Agent 488 · 03-20-2011, 12:10 PM

we all need to chip in for a wolf howling at the moon puzzle for the old man before he has a stroke and is unable to grace us with his mad shot framing skills.

Paul Markham · 03-20-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I disagree. It was selling like hotcakes. I was literally watching sales happen every couple of seconds. We had a joke in my offices that every time we blinked our eyes we made more money.

I don't think it was a "migration of buyers from mainstream porn to online porn". I think it was a GIANT increase in people able to buy porn at all. They couldn't "migrate" because they had never had the opportunity to buy porn before.

Sorry it was every couple of seconds. I got that wrong.

This is what I read Robbie, sorry if I mistook you saw for you believed.

I thought it was you saw it on your stats, not you believed it was happening.

You don't think it was a migration.

I know it was. Because I was talking to the other sides of the industry ho saw the migration. IN THE ACTUAL FIGURES. But I guess you thinking it makes it right.

Quote:

So a market growing 448% is, er, bad?

I have no idea why posting a link to a page that confirms my earlier post makes me clownesque though? Do explain your genius for the dim-witted.

Or do you jus' be trollin? ;) ;) ;)

PS Great work being so rude to Robbie. His buttons are easier to push than yours! Should carry the thread on for a while. I suggest you get Will or Gideon involved next week to continue your massively brilliant spam.

So here's the explanation. Go back and look at the core markets. US, Canada, Europe to get a better picture of the increase that matters. Some of the regions with massive increase are hard to bill.

Then think of the size of the adult online industry in 2000. Was it 1/3 of what it is today. Were there a lot fewer Sites, Affiliates and sponsors then?

Now factor in the massive amount of traffic going to Tubes and you can see there are too many people trying to feed out of a decreasing trough.

You claim to be in marketing and that flew over your head. People who can't buy, don't want to buy and won't buy are a very small market. The core of our income comes from a small sector of that increase.

Try reading a book on Demographics if you want to be in marketing.

Quote:

It's hard to believe after reading the following quotes which you made previously in this thread that you retired ONLY because you weren't getting paid what you felt was just. Now ask yourself, were you ready and willing to retire in the days BEFORE your major setbacks or after them when you didn't have a choice.

During our setbacks 2 of our major clients stopped buying. Both magazine clients. So we stopped producing.

Now it's only $9k profit a month.

Can you imagine the server they get for $45 a month and it looking after 450 members a month and all the free traffic. And how much did they spend on content?

Paul Markham · 03-20-2011, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

So where do we get the traffic today then?

Surfers would never look for porn if they didn't have 10,000s of people giving it away for free.

Traffic isn't king. Sign ups are, getting traffic is the easy part. Getting it to your site is the hard part. Why?

Because 100,000 other people are trying to do the same. Take out 90,000 of them and the number of surfers remains the same. (My figures are to show the point.)

The business is saturated with people scraping a living.

********************************************

Most of you make a living by being affiliates. Most of you find it tough because there's too much free stuff, too much crap, too little quality and sign ups/retention sucks.

My point is by making the inside of a site better the sign ups/retention will increase. The better it is, has a direct effect on earnings.

It's not rocket science.

While the vast number of people in this business are complaining of falling sales. I've come up with a possible solution for those who can afford it. Won't work for ever but it might work for a few for a while. And keep them making money, might even increase their earnings. No one wishes to discuss or even debate it. They just flame and scream.

Why won't upping the quality of the product mean it won't make more sales? Please answer this.

Kiopa_Matt · 03-20-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Why won't upping the quality of the product mean it won't make more sales? Please answer this.

Because nobody believes tripling their production budget for the same amount of sets is going to increase their sales by 300%+

03-18-2011, 04:36 PM	#703
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	amazing - a bunch of you clowns have managed to make Paul look like one of the more reasonable and intelligent people in the industry. Robbie's the most on point in this thread, then Paul. i was going to point fingers at the ass kissers in this thread but i thought better of it - everybody needs to make a living, what Brazzers and others have done to the industry is a done deal, for now anyway. i hate what they've done and Nathan's attitude but if I could get sales from his tube sites I'd take them. if there had been a concerted effort to battle the illegal tube sites and the file sharing operators i'd have supported it with money and whatever else needed but that never happened. I'd sue because I do believe that with any porn tube site that the veil of 'safe harbor protection' would be ripped to shreds quickly but everybody tells me that a lawsuit would cost upwards of 1 million dollars. I don't have that kind of money. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

03-19-2011, 12:59 AM	#708
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	I reviewed one of Reggie scenes and sent it to him. He agreed I could post it. http://www.porn.com/porn-video/faye-...ani-95836.html It start out nice, then it kind of gets too long Some of the focusing is off and the fast cutting is making me dizzy, slow down. Too close to the girls so they're bobbing in and out of focus. OK the comedy is far too long. You have to understand the market that buys porn. The vast majority are guys who are afraid to ask a girl in a bar, if she would like a drink. So girls lead porn scenes with the guy being pulled into it. This scenario is just off putting and with the bad acting not getting my interest. You're standing far too close to the people so you have a problem with their movements and focusing. Stand back and get all the players in on the action. Try giving general directions of how the scenario works and see if the models have the brains to ad lib it. If not shoot it in longer segments and give them instructions as you go along. ACTION The red head is giving the guy a BJ and her hair is over her face and his cock hiding the action. My first GF loved to give me BJs and I knew I was in for one when she tied her hair back, in a scene with the girls leading they can do this. Pussy cat in the room, get him out before the fucking starts. At 11;20 the guy looks bored.!!!!!! The blond girls character is plain annoying me. 24 minutes in and we're still on the BJ. This whole scene is far too long. I don't know if the phone ringing was real or staged, but it could of been used so much better. A dirty phone call while she's being fucked would of been awesome. If the girl is on the guy on a sofa start with reverse cowgirl so we can see her face. After 26 minutes I had seen enough. The shooting is bad, angles poor, focusing terrible. What F stop were you shooting at? The whole setting is too bland, too many pastel colors. For me the scene doesn't work. If you have 2 girls and 1 guy there are better scenarios. 1 girl is horny to fuck in front of her friend, who joins in the give a BJ 2 girls tease the guy into the action. 1 girl says her boyfriend is always telling her she gives lousy head and asks the other girl to teach her. 1 girl comes in to find the other 2 fucking. And joins in. The guy comes in to see the 2 girls fucking. And joins in. The guy is caught jerking off by his GF and her friend and they finish him off. Etc. Etc. Etc. The plots are endless, but it's always better if the girls lead the guy. Setting the blond up as a bitch doesn't work unless she gets taught not to be a bitch. Men who buy porn are scared of these girls. The like the docile, compliant, willing, sex mad, instigators to make up for their lack of balls to ask a girl out on a date. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

03-19-2011, 11:16 AM	#717
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	While TGP site owners and affiliates were earning so much money. I wonder if any of them stopped to think of the long term consequences? Includes sponsors as well. By far and away the biggest cost to a site was promoting it. Rev share starting at 50%, PS at $25. Plus affiliates demanded every tool possible, all the content possible, hosting, banners, support and higher payments if they passed certain figures. I have been asked for exorbitant amounts for a sign up. Plus every thing done for the affiliate. Decent TGPs, not the cycle jerks that pissed off surfers seriously looking to buy, wanted paying for top spots, banners and then partner accounts. And then there was promotion to get affiliates, all cost money. All this cost money and no one bothered where it came from so long as it came. Some didn't even bother if the customer got ripped off, stolen from or just sold a bad site. All that mattered was the money. So where was it found? Hosting - No, that's pretty well fixed depending on the BW and in the early days a significant cost. CC Processing - No again fixed according to turn over. Programming, design, are one off. Admin - Yes some worked from their bedrooms and acted like big shots. In truth they weren't. Content - YES. The cost of what the surfer was buying was cut to the bone. ATK, Karups, Mayers money and many more thought $300 to $400 a full solo girl scene outright was top dollar. Lesbian scenes were a bit better at $1,000-$1,200 a scene. No where compares with what a lesbian set is really worth. HC was anything from $1,000 to $2,000. Again doesn't compare with what it could be worth. And then there were the people who thought all it took to shoot porn was a camera and lights. The consequences are plain to see. Affiliates are pricing themselves out of the market. The sites are full of the same dull content and the surfer thinks Porn Tubes are better than paysites. Anyone who spoke up and said the content is crap, me, was told to STFU because I didn't know what I was talking about. Tubes are better than paysites because they meet consumers needs better than paysites. Crying about them being illegal is useless. They are not until convicted in a court and even if one was. The surfers would move th\o the next free Tube site. Because they think they're better than paysites. Free is only part of the problem. The lousiest excuse in selling is "No one buying today. It is easily answered with, that's because no one is really selling. Loading free sites with free porn is the lowest form of selling. And to sell a repeat buy product the product has to be worth it. Many are not and the consumer knows it. A few sites do stand out. I'm talking about in general. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

03-19-2011, 01:32 PM	#723
ReggieDurango Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: California Posts: 4,750	don't make fun of format, fucks Quote: Originally Posted by Agent 488 View Post ReggieDurango enough with the thread jacks. you have been warned as per gfy rule 13 subsection 4. Wait, wait just a minute, there IS NO GFY RULE 13 SUBSECTION 4!?! !!! Agent 488, you've been clowning me the WHOLE time?!? HAHAHAHAHA Fellow digital-thesbian? friend? ...brother? Doubt it, you're still a dick!!! Last edited by ReggieDurango; 03-19-2011 at 01:33 PM.. Reason: now don't be a pussy too

03-19-2011, 01:48 PM	#724
INever Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: .......in a niche, in orbit...... Posts: 3,272	There's a thread running that brings up the point that GOOGLE excludes pirate results from its mainstream movie/film searches. https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1014681 That's because Hollywood is organized and they made GOOGLE an offer they could not refuse. Either adult is NOT organized and that's why GOOGLE results for porn movies/films/sites are consistently pirate sites now. Or, the GOOGLE search results are an engine of "policy" designed to destroy the adult business by flooding the market. __________________ Investment advisory sponsor:50% comm. Minimum $788 payout/join. I love Camdough

03-18-2011, 04:25 PM	#702
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	cliff notes?

03-18-2011, 04:47 PM	#704
HarryMuff Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 271	Links Pulled.

03-19-2011, 09:55 AM	#716
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	ReggieDurango enough with the thread jacks. you have been warned as per gfy rule 13 subsection 4.

03-19-2011, 11:27 AM	#719
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	paul the march towards "free" on the internet has nothing to do with the porn industry. there are much larger issues at play here. so instead of writing some long dreary essay post no one will read or do another wolf howling at the moon puzzle read about the founders and history of the internet. you are better selling cabbages in the village square if you can't grasp and profit from "free" in the internet.

03-19-2011, 11:35 AM	#720
Altwebdesign Guest Posts: n/a	Whats the latest ?

03-19-2011, 04:06 PM	#726
ReggieDurango Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: California Posts: 4,750	Stop thread-jacking Agent 488

03-20-2011, 05:56 AM	#730
DamianJ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land Posts: 15,808	I just love how now Paul is so tangled up in his own trolling all he can do is repeat the incorrect things he has said, that people have proven to be incorrect, in bold. I KNOW YOU HAVE SHOWN ME TO BE TOTALLY WRONG, I AM IGNORING YOUR POINT AND REPEATING MYSELF, BUT IN BOLD. Genius debating. Maybe he'll put people on ignore too, and copy the Robbie style of discussion. Robbie "Point" Someone "Counterpoint" Robbie "FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING RETARD YOU'RE ON IGNORE" Awesome.

03-20-2011, 11:29 AM	#745
plsureking bored Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Metaverse Posts: 4,675	lol also funny - everybody in this thread that disagrees with grandpa markham is a clown. keep calling us clowns. you'll be dead soon. __________________ #

03-20-2011, 12:06 PM	#746
The Porn Nerd Living The Dream Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Inside a Monitor Posts: 19,171	So where do we get the traffic today then? __________________ My Affiliate Programs: Porn Nerd Cash \| Porn Showcase \| Aggressive Gold (Coming Soon) Over 90 paysites to promote! ICQ: 579915163 Skype: peabodymedia

03-20-2011, 12:10 PM	#747
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	we all need to chip in for a wolf howling at the moon puzzle for the old man before he has a stroke and is unable to grace us with his mad shot framing skills.