Yeah yeah, and if you're hungry enough, you're damn right you're gonna steal food to keep your family fed. I've heard all the justifications for breaking the law, I should've stuck to my "it's not worth it" from the start of the thread.

I'm not arguing for one political party or the other. If people of any political flavor are elected in good faith and then break a law, they should have to deal with the consequences. Now, feel free to make the sentence lenient if there was actually a reasonable reason for breaking that law. But if someone does the crime, they need to do the time.

But I don't give one shit about "we are at war" yada yada. Laws are laws, and if that makes me a pussy man in your eyes, well, I'll just have to figure out some to get over that. Let me think about it for a sec.

You completely missed part of the points I was making... How is it we are on this retarded anti-torture band wagon when our soldiers are killing them as fast or wherever they can find them.

Last time I checked murder was illegal too. But it is a war and certain concessions get made. And from everything that has come out I don't exactly see anything heinous in their methods. It isn't like we are electrocuting them, or pulling teeth or fingernails out, or cutting off body parts, etc.

At least if they are being tortured they still get to breathe and live.

Your right on... I went in 1987 to the C-Level High Risk course..As you said that is just a small part of what is done... :thumbsup

No, that is outsourced to Egypt, Morocco, Afghanistan ..... or done in your black sites ....


***** Rendition ******

Some of you people have no fucking idea what you are talking about.. You sit behind your little computers and complain about those of us who are out there keeping your fat lazy stupid ass safe here in America.. The thing that gets my blood boiling is when people talk about things they know nothing about.. Don't get me wrong I do respect your right to express your concerns and views after all this is America..I am not saying I am proud of some of the things that I have done to people we have captured but when you must have information to save American lives I will do and have done ANYTHING to get that out of them..Then most of the time they get to meet their god a few minutes later...

You would have been high in the food chain of the Nazis ....

AIRBORNE :thumbsup

"All The Way" "RLTW" :thumbsup:thumbsup and a Z snap....LOL

thats the first i have heard of this theory , interesting..


probably something so dangerous some of them are now working on golf courses in the bahamas. Thats generally what i do with high value detainees. I beat the shit out of them then send them to work on a golf course in the bahamas.


exactly, if the information was a matter of life or death why are they detaining them for year with no charges !!



:thumbsup another good theory !! can i quote that last part to you ?


i hope nobody's kids get kidnapped :) so should everyone. But haphazardly beating the shit out of people prob won't help things either.. Thats why we have laws and procedures, if they aren't fast enough or aren't working , fix them. Its ridiculous to break the law to enforce the law, we know that doesn't work. It sure hasn't so far..

Yep.

When I was in the Marines, straight up infantry, when "captured" as a "POW" by the other team, we were treated like POWS. This meant spending a lot of time on our knees, hands tied behind our back, and a sack over our heads - all of this outside in 110 degree weather. Their job was to break us, and our job was to resist. Any time we resisted, it meant a swift boot to the back. It's pretty fucking painful when your on your knees, hands tied behind your back, can't see, and someone kicks you over. And over and over again.

It is my understanding that the Attorney General has begun an investigation to determine if any laws were broken...maybe you can assist him and identify for him what specific law/laws were broken.

STFU youself - "theking" is a notorious liar. He makes up shit on a daily basic to try and induce the selfimage he holds of himself, onto others. And when he wants to back up his own lies, he quotes back to his previous lies.

So REALLY - STFU

Like I asked you "When did you go to the course?" I don't care two shits if he is as you say "a liar" He is right about the course instruction...I know firsthand...You however do not know what you are talking about so.....FUCK YOU!.... :321GFY

STFU moron. He looked it up on google. Anyone who watch TV these days know SOME of what SERE training includes. Even christopher hitchens tested it. The fact is, you idiots have - so far - only listed those parts the press hade discussed. None of you have mentioned those NOT disclosed to the press. So take your idiotic Internet HE-Man rhetoric and shove it

We dont call it SERE here in Europe, So I did not take the course. Even if we did, I would not have to go through it, because I did not fly combat missions. During my time in the US, we dident have to go through it either, because we were not a part of the US airforce.

Hey dickhead, the SERE C-Level course that I went to, some parts are classified..As I said He may have looked it up on the internet, I don't care...I just don't like people like you talking about things you don't know anything about...Your funny... :321GFY

definitely a lot of hate and fear in this thread...

Where did I say I was a Expert on SERE training? show me where I said that ? PLEASE!!!

What I said was "theking" is full of shit. I dont give a rats ass about what you think of me. It dont take a doctore to tell if a leg have been sowed on backwards

the worst part of these discussions is the misleading use of the word "torture" - a word which is associated with physical mutilation and extreme pain - being used to describe sleep deprivation or prolonged periods of standing or whatever.

a close second is the fact that everyone wants to decry all these methods of getting valuable intelligence information - yet no one has a solution. no one can present an alternative. i suppose we are all to believe that we can just ask Osama Bin Ladens second in command where he is and he'll just volunteer that information right? I suppose we can capture a bunch of islamic extremists with known ties to past terrorist attacks and just hang out wiht them and make friends with them and get them to roll over on everyone they know, every organization, every person of importance, every place where they train and every future planned attack they are aware of... since "torture doesn't work" - i guess we'll have to just give them fruit baskets and roses and hope for the best.

even dumber is a bunch of people denouncing "torture" as "not working" - when its clearly not done for fun.

a bunch of retarded fucking idiots denouncing methods for getting time sensitive information from people as "not working" but of course not ONE SINGLE PERSON has ever thought to ask

"wait a minute, what information was gathered this way"

"how do we honestly measure the pluses and minuses of each technique"

"how many lives were saved"

"how many known terrorist leaders were captured as a result.

"how many attacks were disrupted as a result"

and why? because you don't fucking care about safety and security and the issues. you don't care about the violent/volatile world world around you, filled with people who want to murder you and your family because you don't pray 5 times a day to allah. these people are coming for you all over the globe. they are killing you. and what do you propose to do about it? nothing. you object to everything. you are just a ultra liberal left wing pussy living in a utopia that only exists in your mind... and in a fantasy world where the worlds most violent psychopaths, murderers, terrorists and brutal dictators "just need to be understood" ... and you're so fucking out of touch with reality, you think you're the only one that truly "gets it"

in the meantime, people are out there working FOR YOU. trying to PROTECT YOU. they are doing it in a world FULL of threats to YOU. a world full of people who continually openly declare their intention to KILL YOU.

and what is your response to them? "you're an asshole, fuck off"

what is your solution?

do nothing. cripple all law enforcement. tie everyones hands and prosecute everyone for crimes if you think they kept a known mass murderer up for 20 hours or more.

brilliant.

thank you for making the world more dangerous.

Are you fucking kidding me? people debate those topics day in an day out. Do you live in a cave next to the local Taliban leader or what?

really? they debate effective methods? seriously? all i hear is about what "CAN'T" or SHOULDN'T or SHOULDN'T HAVE been done. or what WAS over the line. All i hear is people bitching about water boarding and so on. all i hear are vicious accusations of horrible behavior and violations of human rights. i don't hear anything about solutions.

i've never heard anyone say "oh hey, this is the most effective way to extract time sensitive information from a suspect... which is why ALL these other methods are unnecessary"

i guessed i missed the part where all these viable and effective alternatives were offered up.

i just keep hearing a bunch of pussies bitch and moan about someones rights while they watch bombs in open air markets get detonated across the globe.

I think he means by any who are captured. and I happen to agree in this case. When they cut the guys head off on video I think it was time to stop the milk and cookies torture.

yes - as I said, have you been living under a rock?

Even the NY Times have published articels about the lack of result. Torture (or enhanced interrogation as I'm sure you want to call it) have not provided one single bit of usefull information.

Quite opposit. It have given a lot of "false negatives" or whatever you want to call it, when the prisoners (ohh, I forgot, they ar not prosoners - they are "detainees" because prisoners have rights) are forced to give out false information to stop the torture.

Even Dick Cheney had to admit, that the info they got from Abu Zubaydah was BEFORE the torture. Anything he said during the torture was bullshit and totally unusable information

+ . CIA peoples own words:
Quote:

During his interrogation under harsher techniques Abu Zubaydah confessed to a universe of alleged plots and plans, none of them have ever been corroborated or substantiated. A former intelligence official stated "[w]e spent millions of dollars chasing false alarms,"[3][57] and "sent hundreds of CIA and FBI investigators scurrying in pursuit of phantoms."

that's funny... when Obama launched his little torture attack and Cheny responded... he challenged the president to release what information was gained from the waterboarding or other "enhanced interrogation techniques"... which of course, they won't... because that doesn't serve their purpose and the info is classified so the accused cant' defend themselves anyway.


basically you're delusional thinking has reduced you to the position that the CIA and other nations intelligence agencies have no idea how to interrogate people and get information and they are totally ineffective.

of course, you don't have concrete facts because its all classified information, but you're pretty sure that's the case... which means that all intelligence agencies are just dumb and have no idea how to do their jobs... but you of course, the idiot slob on a porn forum does know how to interrogate Al Queda leadership with great results.

if only all these trained professionals would just listen to YOU and benefit from your vast experience and extensive knowledge on the subject. Or maybe the problem is that the CIA just doesn't read the NY Times.

retard

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

big fucking deal. why would that be different if he wasn't being pressured? you think he would just open up his heart and soul? how is this different from every other day in the CIA/FBI? you think intelligence is a perfect world full of perfect information?


exceptions to the rule, do not disprove the rule itself.

how much actionable intelligence was acquired? you don't know. how effective on the whole have these programs been? you don't know.. how many lives were saved as a result of these techniques? you don't know. how many terrorist plots were disrupted and prevented as a result of these techniques? you don't know.

how many attacks have there been in the USA post 911 - we know. ZERO

..and you are calling ME "delusional"? Read the facts moron, instead of beliving everything Fox tells you.

3 days ago, they started to release those docs
https://www.cia.gov/news-information...practices.html

Again - you are must have been living in a cave, or you are simpy just stupid.

FACT: Torture dont work. The only thing that works in Intelligence. Those are not my words, but the words out of agencies like CIA and FBI.

and you are the moron that belive you were saved because you tortured the detainees.

Read the FACTS. CIA and FBI said they GOT NO INFO FROM TORTURE

no my words - their words

you're right. i saw the big bold headline in the CIA doc that says "we don't know what we're doing.. but fat pornographers do and practices that have survived for 1000's of years don't work".

the stupidity of that view defies description.

"intelligence" is what works? where does this "intelligence" come from? from magical midgets riding unicorns in the sky? couldn't be that a large part of that intelligence comes from captured enemies who are pressured to talk?


:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

no - im quoting them dumbass. Their words; NONE, ZERO, NADA factual information came from torture. Not my words - THEIR WORDS

What part of "THEIR WORDS" dont you understand?

you're quoting them? you posted a link to a website. what part did you quote that said that "NO INFORMATION was obtained"

oh... you didn't. you couldn't.
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

yes I did:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...032802066.html

Every single POW that was tortured in Vietnam...that survived being tortured...gave the enemy what they wanted...which was to make propaganda videos...and sign propaganda statements...this according to Senator McCain...who stated that he was not a hero...only those few that died without complying were heroes. So torture does work.

Of course they were actually tortured...not the weak methods that have been in the news that are being called...by some...to be torture. As I have stated...the thousands of military people...including myself...that have been through SERE have had the same methods and worse used upon us.

I hope you reported this to the ACLU!!

Wikipedia is the closest thing you ever got to combat, so STFU

You have a brain defect .... or just plain stupid. A thread is spoiled from the moment you touch your keyboard :2 cents:

look you fucking retard. believe it or not... more than one person in the history of the CIA has been captured/arrested/detained and interrogated.

you are talking about ONE quote about ONE person and ONE set of events/circumstances and using the word "ALL" and "EVERY" and "NEVER" to imply the CIA said something they didn't about general practices as they applied to 1000's of interrogations.

dipshit.

sleep well pussy. don't worry. someone is out there getting their hands dirty to protect your retarded ass no matter how you feel about it... just as there are people out there planning to kill you and everyone you know because you don't share the same religious beliefs they do.

says the guy who is thoroughly obsessed with bashing another country and can't say anything without sounding like a broken record

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

it was ONE example. You asked for a link, and I gave you one.
Its not like you will change your mind even if I posted 10 links.

Your friend Cheney is pissed that Obama will look in to the facts. I am not a Obama fan, but I am glad that they will look in to the FACTS, to see how many lies Cheney came up with

In my twelve years with the 82nd Airborne Division...I participated in Operation Urgent Fury...Operation Just Cause...was among the very first of 2500 troops sent to Saudi Arabia...during Operation Desert Shield...and Operation Desert Storm...which is where my military career ended. As for you trolls that are soothsayers (ignorant fruitcakes) I don't really give a damn Charlotte...what you believe or think.

you said (among other things) "FACT: Torture dont work. The only thing that works in Intelligence. Those are not my words, but the words out of agencies like CIA and FBI."

and similar remarks and used one case as an example where you believe it supports your point. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean it doesn't work and the CIA is certainly not telling you that or admitting to that as you are suggesting.

the CIA/FBI have NOT adopted the official position that enhanced interrogation techniques "don't work" ... only you have.

I was with the Green Beret special unit batallion commando airborne tactic specialist unit batallion. Yeah it was real hush hush. I was Agent Orange. That was my name, Agent Orange. Specialist Agent Orange, that was me.

Human waste.

I am not against torturing scumbags , the problem is, it turns out that alot of the people captured as scumbags turned out not to be scumbags.. This kind of mistake breeds the violence we are trying to stop.

The problem is when we bypass the laws, theres a reason why they are there, some people need to think about that and how we got here, not by bypassing them.

Posting gory pictures is idiotic to support your cause , especially when your side has been responsible for most of the gore..

It is my understanding that the Attorney General has begun an investigation to determine if any laws were broken...maybe you can assist him and identify for him what specific law/laws were broken.

Pleasurepays is drinking the coolaid by the gallon..

Even after it was exposed that Cheney and co. used torture to get the answers they wanted , to justify war, to link Alqaeda and Saddam... An iraq war later, a million+ Iraqi deaths, thousands of american soldiers dead... Suckers ask for more!! Keep us safe!!! And gullibly believe that their leaders do all of this for them, to keep them safe... lol.. PNAC, educate yourself.. But the joke is that half a million illegals come across the unprotected south border every year..:1orglaugh yeah, terrorists would never think of entering there right?

So then the liars tell the population that torture prevented terrorist attacks... but who would believe liars?

we were talking about american military treatment not "suitable methods of interogation".

As far as i am aware we never detained the people responsible for the berg beheading. I am also unaware of any milk and cookies torture..

Let me ask you this.. Have terrible murders always taken place ? like 20 years ago , 50 years ago ?

So why would our methods need to change to become unlawfull in order to stop unlawfullness ?

The problem is when you circumvent the laws that protect us, with the goal of protecting us..

I am all for torture, boil their balls in oil , screwdriver through the skull, but lets do it legally and properly so as not to torture innocent people.

If theres a reason to torture someone then it needs to be brought before a judge in the open so we all know who is being tortured and why.

You gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette......


http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/1...669_MEDIUM.jpg

After seeing that one guy get his head sawed off.....fuck em...fuck em hard and slow

hmm lets see , an illegal detention center , with people being held and tortured for years with no charges.. some are sooo dangerous they now work on public golf courses ..

hmm can't see anything illegal about that lol

So after timothy mcveigh blew up 19 children and 150 adult, its OK to shoot people that were in the army?

You saying or thinking that something is illegal...does not make it illegal now does it? The people have been held without charges because of challenges made in the Supreme Court...as you should know the wheels of justice turn slowly. Educate me and provide me with the source of your information that people have been tortured for years.

As I said the Attorney General has begun an investigation to determine IF any laws have been broken...help him out and provide him with the specific laws that you think have been violated.