You are a bald faces liar and a bad one at that. So is it the Democratic party line to spin this POS bill as a Bush originated bill? :1orglaugh :1orglaugh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...lative_history

Wow, no matter how much they get fuck in the ass, Obama apologists will always stand by to bow down to him and dip their noses deep inside his ass.

I'm not a Democrat, I'm not registered as one and I didn't vote for Obama. Ass hat.

What part of "It would have happened either way" confuses you? It doesn't mean Bush wrote the fucking thing.

1. George W. Bush is not the President, your excuses are over.
2. It is 2009 and Obama Hussein Barack is the current President of the United States.
3. The guys in the white suits should arrive to pick you up soon you kook.

Are you bipolar or something? :1orglaugh

1) GW Bush was pres - so you need to remember almost every major fuck-up was directly caused by "HIS ACTIONS."

2) At least I don't need to school you on that.

3) Wow - White suit guys round 2 - I welcome it.

You are clearly too fucking stupid to have a conversation with and clearly you can't read for shit.

I promise you a McCain stimulus bill would have looked VERY different.
I do believe a Clinton stimulus bill would also have been very different.

You dont get it, the bill you are thinking of that Congress passed during the Bush administration was completely separate.

Obama's bill was written by, voted for, and pushed on the American people by the Obama administration and the Democrats in the senate and congress. You own this bill buddy, and your party will live and die by it.

At least we got that clarified.

:1orglaugh

Of course they can, but you want to compare 8 years to 2 months?

Sorry I only read FACTS buddy not bullshit. Try researching before opening your mouth.
Hoorah motherfucker.

Again for the moron that can't read - I didn't vote for him and he isn't in my party.

But you are for damn sure wrong on this Bill. This bill was being drafted (at this size) under Bush. The difference is where the Money went - But that is 100% expected and changes 100% of the time under every president - bailout or not. So that factor - is pointless. A few goodies did get added in - however goodies got taken out too.

A bailout, of this size, would have happened 100% either way - without question. The republicans are pissed because the money didn't go to PAY for wallstreet again so they can all get padded accounts - rather a massive amount - actually went into America.

Yeah - That's why Republicans and people like you are "really" pissed - you don't want to help American(S) - You only care about yourself - you're scum.. straight up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...lative_history

As my Negus Obama would say "You got served, beatch!" :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Hey stoopid... did you read that Wiki article?

"Based largely on broad proposals made by President Obama"

Based largely on broad proposals.... Wait, you mean he didn't come up with the entire thing all by himself? Fucking crazy! I wonder where he got allllllll that info so fast.

Take your meds brotha that bipolar is kicking in again. :1orglaugh

Am I to understand that you feel this "stimulus" plan is a good idea?

how do you "horde" money?

you are saying "rich people" put money under their pillows?

rich people invest money. they buy investment instruments. they put their money in banks which in turn loan you that money to buy a car. they buy cars and planes and boats. they invest in new business.

where is it you think these poor people are spending money? at poor people businesses buying .10 shirts and socks? of course not, they are buying tvs, mobile phones, designer jeans, gold teeth and 24" wheels from rich people who actually create those companies and products, which then creates jobs, which then puts money in peoples pockets to spend it on retarded shit like people in this country LOVE to do.

how the fuck can someone who is over the age of 10 say "the rich horde money"

here's a hint for you.. the economy and the financial markets are not a zero sum system. wealth is created. economies grow. you can't "horde" money unless you are putting it in a vault and pulling it out of the system.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

In fairness, under Bush there were massive tax cuts and benefits for the wealthy. Everyone was told it would trickle down, create jobs, and so on. Look where we are right now.

i have no interest in debating the finer points of economics. if you look at the net effect of the tax cuts and federal revenue, it grew. "tax cuts" have nothing to do with the housing market crash, with two wars etc

If it has nothing to do with the current problems, how is it going to fix it? It couldn't help avoid it apparently.

Yes lets recap where we are right now...

Mortgage defaults have caused banks to freeze credit lines so they can horde what cash they have to protect their businesses from failing.

The mortgages are in default because Americans have irresponsibly over extended themselves on credit.

The mortgages existed in the first place due to low interest rates(set by the Fed) and lower acceptance thresholds(set by banks and brokers).

Seems to me we have several guilty parties and not a single one of them are the "wealthy".

1. Lower to middle class Americans buying homes they cant afford.
2. Banks and brokers(who as a whole cant be defined as "the rich") overextended credit.
3. The federal government(specifically the Federal Reserve) lowering interest rates to dangerous levels.

This crisis was not caused by "jobs" or "wealthy" individuals, it was caused by systematic abuses by many levels of the wealth chain.

To simply say "tax cuts for the rich caused this" would be false and simplistic.

again... two wars, reshaping the government, the housing crash etc. you are talking about problems much larger than growing tax revenue to the federal government by XX%

if you can't look at the economic problems within the proper context and within the context of all the variables and factors... then its a pointless discussion

Bush didn't cause the an economy to crash
Obama isn't going to cause it to recover

A president is representative of one branch of 3 branches of government.. they're not gods.

We have to go through these cycles because the political system, by design, caves to short term thinking... and no one can just let things run its course and no one wants to accept that contraction comes with expansion and everyone thinks that you can grow an economy at a nice pace and never see contraction. doesn't happen. won't happen. can't happen.

So here we are. a huge clusterfuck and more of the same idiots (both parties) acting like they can play god with the economy because they don't understand the economy or money or wealth creation or job creation or owning a business or starting and growing a business or anything else that has to do with the real world.

If everyone had all the answers and they were undeniable fact... there wouldn't be "economic theory" - there would be "economic facts".. and we wouldn't even be having these debates in spite of the fact that what we are seeing today is pretty much business as usual in the economic world. 20 years of the fastest growth in the global economy ever... and it contracts at the end... before growing again. all government needs to do is get out of the way, stop trying to confiscate and redistribute peoples money and let the markets work. saying "free markets" caused the situation today is dumb. it has to happen. it is exactly what is supposed to happen. its exactly what has always happened and will continue to happen... growth, some contraction (in proportion to growth) .. .followed by recovery and a long period of growth. business as usual.

:1orglaugh

No, not really at all. A couple of parts are fine, but overall I know it's bullshit. However - I agree 'more' with this bailout - than I did with the direct Bank and Crap market bailouts that Bush pushed through. And the American people clearly agree with me on that.

I have already done my research to know the bill really isn't full of fat, I'm allowed to disagree with some parts and I know some will fat to it, but understand that other Americans agree with those parts and don't agree with mine. And I expect and understand that money would move around, like it always has with any president - so padding the pockets is of course, going to happen.


In general though, I do think the free market is 'some what' failed, I do know for a fact greed in 'all markets' caused this and the fact that it's open and not regulated help make sure this problem could never be corrected. - So overall what Obama is doing - I'm so far fine with since I know the old way - failed.

"Based largely on broad proposals made by President Obama"
"Anyway... Most of the bill WAS lifted off the Desk of Bush."

Those are my quotes, just making sure you can understand what I'm going to type..


Again, where do you think Obama "got" the information? So, if Obama takes the information from Bush - then proposes information "largely" but not "fully" based on "his ideas" - then it means he got the information from another source, modified it, and added in a few goodies for him....

That doesn't mean he copied "exactly" what Bush wrote... Got that Capt Stupid?

"Bailouts that Bush pushed through"

really?

you mean the entire government wasn't almost 100% uninimous in the decision to rush them assloads of money?

that was hardly a partisan event.

:2 cents:

I love America

OMFG I'm not reading any further...

Oh you mean the several bailouts that the "MAJORITY" of Americans didn't agree with? - vs. - Obama that Majority of Americans "STILL" agree with on the Plan? That's the people that really make a shit... not a unanimous decision from people that need pockets padded.

thats a fucking lie. your dumb. go fight kimbo and shut up!

the majority of americans weren't being affected when AIG went tits up. the majority of americans barely understood what was happening when the dominos started to fall and really seem to not have a much better idea about how we came to be where we are today,... much less understood AIG and the consequences of it failing at the time.

people are dumb.
people are emotional
people are comfortable being 100% uninformed and having an opinion

Anyone who thinks the overall economy would be much better now if John McCain would be president is a liar, fool, or propagandist/cheerleader for the republican party.

If the markets are crashing due to lack of faith in Obama, then we should blame wealthy republicans/conservatives for selling,shorting .... along with blaming Obama for not having better long-term solutions.

and you are a boublil :2 cents:

Blah...This conversation has turned to total shit. People just need to stop whining and accept what is happening and take care of themselves. Does it matter who is responsible for this? Can we change what Clinton, Bush or Obama have done? No. Shut the fuck up, do what YOU need to do to survive and have a Pepsi.

P.S. I love you all, in a non-gay way.

yeah I stopped posting in it... LOL


oh yeah when is the band getting back together... NKOTB did it I think it's our turn.....

Communism/socialism system crashed ...
Now it is the turn of capitalism to crash ..

Why ????

Because both systems were abused.


Maybe Obama could do an " Operation Freedom " to give back hardons to Splum, DirtyDanza, Pussyman and the gang ... Nothing like a good war :1orglaugh

War is good. :2 cents:

how come no one told that to bush about clinton.

every damn thing that went wrong for his whole two terms
was clinton's fault. now everything's obama's fault
and you cant blame the last guy anymore?

There is only one thing Clinton is guilty of during the Bush years and that is not taking care of Osama Bin Laden and that network when he had the chance. Other than that there really is nothing Bush could blame on Clinton imho.

Who says the Bush administration is guiltless here? Not I. The guilt lies with many parties, my issue is Obama's "fix" is not a "fix" at all. He had a chance to save this country and he chose to push his liberal agenda instead. Half of you will love getting free third world health care where you have to wait months for an appointment and you have to apply to the government for surgeries. Half of you will love getting free welfare cheese and food stamps for your kids as long as child services can pay a visit to your home once a year.

If you make over 250k you are the enemy to the Obama administration. Good luck with that.

The irony is deep with this one.

I am just so damn afraid of the coming HYPER FUCKING INFLATION. It's like playing on the beach with your dog and suddenly a 100 foot wall of water appears. You have a good 2 minutes to run, but your jaw dropped, your eyes bugged out, and you can't move a fucking muscle.

That's how many people feel. M3 money supply just went up a SHITLOAD here in the Philippines. In the US, the stimuli/bailouts are pumping up the money supply.

It's like watching a terrible terrible fucking movie and not being able to do shit......