My programmer steals my idea - GoFuckYourself.com

Donners · 09-16-2008, 02:06 PM

So I had a good idea for a script.. And I hired a programmer to do the job.

Now it turns out he stole the idea and created his own competing website with the script he made.

How can you deal with situations like these?

seeandsee · 09-16-2008, 02:07 PM

Search how Facebook was created

Fucksakes · 09-16-2008, 02:08 PM

happened to me many times.. whats new.

how to deal with it.. learn to code yourself.

k0nr4d · 09-16-2008, 02:10 PM

non-disclosure and non-compete agreements.

MrAwesome · 09-16-2008, 02:14 PM

hunt him down

CurrentlySober · 09-16-2008, 02:17 PM

kick him in the tits and stal his mrs...

Smooth J. · 09-16-2008, 02:19 PM

You got owned.

pornguy · 09-16-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

non-disclosure and non-compete agreements.

And a shotgun.

acctman · 09-16-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donners

So I had a good idea for a script.. And I hired a programmer to do the job.

Now it turns out he stole the idea and created his own competing website with the script he made.

How can you deal with situations like these?

that happens all the time. I personally never give a programmer complete access to a site or an entire project. I only give pieces of it, I know enough basic php to put things together in the end. Also, use multiple programmers if you can.

i had one programmer once he saw the complete project and site, he message me asking can he view the backend and see how everything works. of course I said no, late found out some contacted him about creating a site script similar to mine.

sortie · 09-16-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donners

So I had a good idea for a script.. And I hired a programmer to do the job.

Now it turns out he stole the idea and created his own competing website with the script he made.

How can you deal with situations like these?

You fucked up.

He created the code and can copyright it and sue you for using it.
You created an idea but, as I understand copyright law, you can't copyright a idea.
Only the expression of the idea can be copyrighted and
the script is the expression of your idea.

Solution :

Make complete specifications along with flow charts showing the full process to be
performed. Use pseudo code and be detailed and exact like :

Quote:

open user file by user name
read user file
extract last name and birth date
add 85 to birth year to get policy end date.
etc...

Now you can copyright you specs and pseudo code.
Also make a short contract specifying "This is a work for hire".
Work for hire means by law the programmer has no copyright
claims to the work he did.

Of course you can skip all that by hiring someone who is trustworthy.

acctman · 09-16-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

non-disclosure and non-compete agreements.

unfortunately those dont work. they know you're more than likely not going to sue, and most programmers that are hired are in other sites and even countries. And proof of legal name and address is another issue. Best bet would be to go with a real established company that will probably charge you 10times as much but you get the security and piece of mind knowing you stuff won't be stolen.

d-null · 09-16-2008, 02:41 PM

not enough time in the day to do everything and learn to program well, but it seems it is necessary...

acctman · 09-16-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

You fucked up.

He created the code and can copyright it and sue you for using it.
You created an idea but, as I understand copyright law, you can't copyright a idea.
Only the expression of the idea can be copyrighted and
the script is the expression of your idea.

Solution :

Make complete specifications along with flow charts showing the full process to be
performed. Use pseudo code and be detailed and exact like :

Now you can copyright you specs and pseudo code.
Also make a short contract specifying "This is a work for hire".
Work for hire means by law the programmer has no copyright
claims to the work he did.

Of course you can skip all that by hiring someone who is trustworthy.

Technically if he had an NDA signed he could go after him. But, unless you have the funds to do that its a pointless document. I use to work for IBM and MS creating databases and if I created anything software related they had rights to it.

like i said before if something is important enough use multiple programmers or pay the extra for a professional development company (actually physical company not an online website) to create it.

fujiko · 09-16-2008, 02:50 PM

i definitely feel ur pain.. But dont let that bother u, since u cant change wats happened.
Instead focus on ur site & build it to be the best.

xmas13 · 09-16-2008, 02:56 PM

G-Rotica · 09-16-2008, 02:59 PM

It's called work for hire. If you paid him, you own the code.

tranza · 09-16-2008, 03:10 PM

It happens all the time. Did you have any contract with him?

Pornstuck · 09-16-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranza

It happens all the time. Did you have any contract with him?

Give your bot a rest.

2012 · 09-16-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

non-disclosure and non-compete agreements.

That or hire this guy ...

sysk · 09-16-2008, 03:29 PM

Always ask for a signed Non-disclosure Agreement (NDA) / Non-compete Agreement before you talk about your project.

Good luck with this man

StarkReality · 09-16-2008, 03:46 PM

NDAs are a nice idea, but pretty useless in real life. Partner up with a friend who's a good programmer, these guys do magic and you'll go nowhere without decent tools and scripts. You need them for everything, even SEO.

aico · 09-16-2008, 03:49 PM

As said: non-disclosure non-compete, and also hire separate programs to work on different parts of the script.

wheaties · 09-16-2008, 03:54 PM

If it's a really good idea, and you expect this guy to do it for peanuts, then consider your site as good as duplicated. Why not go in a revenue sharing deal, that way there's mutual incentive to get the thing done, and he'll be less likely to rip it off.

Manowar · 09-16-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

ouch

JamesK · 09-16-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fartfly

That or hire this guy ...

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 09-16-2008, 04:10 PM

Happened to me once upon a time, I raised a shit about it and wound up getting offered a cut from the proceeds. A large number of adult bloggers around here are now running what was originally supposed to be my private setup. At least I got some cash out of it in the end. You could demand a cut for yourself and see what he has to say. otherwise you'll just have to suck it up, and find a new coder next time around...

Supz · 09-16-2008, 04:37 PM

good old street justice

~Ray · 09-16-2008, 04:56 PM

you could post the programmers name so the gfy search will find it next time as a thief

mrkris · 09-16-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acctman

that happens all the time. I personally never give a programmer complete access to a site or an entire project. I only give pieces of it, I know enough basic php to put things together in the end. Also, use multiple programmers if you can.

i had one programmer once he saw the complete project and site, he message me asking can he view the backend and see how everything works. of course I said no, late found out some contacted him about creating a site script similar to mine.

This is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read. Segmenting sections of your code to different programmers with different levels of experience, education and in some cases, language, is why so many people have hard to maintain websites, vulnerable code and no documentation.

Then again, it's people like you who hire those of us that know what we are doing to write it from scratch and make more money, so, carry on

WarChild · 09-16-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Rotica

It's called work for hire. If you paid him, you own the code.

That's wrong.

It's not a work for hire unless specifically stated. After the fact, it's too late.

mrkris · 09-16-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheaties

If it's a really good idea, and you expect this guy to do it for peanuts, then consider your site as good as duplicated. Why not go in a revenue sharing deal, that way there's mutual incentive to get the thing done, and he'll be less likely to rip it off.

Most developers don't like revenue sharing, since nobody can guarantee you will get anything back. I know quite a few people on here that are still trying to launch the same site they spoke about 2 years ago.

Bojangles · 09-16-2008, 05:39 PM

Sucks to hear that, man. Ouch.

crockett · 09-16-2008, 05:51 PM

Hey look at it this way.. at least your coder actually finished the job with a working script. That's gotta be better than 80% of the coders out there.

UniversalPassLorence · 09-16-2008, 08:21 PM

You got to have contracts drafted to address all your concerns inculding non-disclosure, non-compete, intellectual property and other clauses. You should even have it signed, before you even talk about the idea with them (at least the non-disclosure). But if the programmer is non US, then you got a new set of problems

UniversalPassLorence · 09-16-2008, 08:22 PM

You can get them off the net for a fee and customize them (inexpensive) or have a lawyer draft it (expensive).

UniversalPassLorence · 09-16-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarkReality

NDAs are a nice idea, but pretty useless in real life. Partner up with a friend who's a good programmer, these guys do magic and you'll go nowhere without decent tools and scripts. You need them for everything, even SEO.

Hard to get a good programmer who is your friend and sane

Kudles · 09-16-2008, 08:43 PM

Punch him in the face

NickPapageorgio · 09-16-2008, 08:48 PM

Possession is 90% of the law without a detailed, signed document stating otherwise...

And to the guy posting to just build the site up better yada yada, it's easy to say that in a perfect world. But remember, the guy who wrote the software is the guy who's probably going to be the best at making the most of it. ;)

TRe$yNFuL · 09-16-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth J.

You got owned.

woj · 09-16-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acctman

...Best bet would be to go with a real established company that will probably charge you 10times as much but you get the security and piece of mind knowing you stuff won't be stolen...

Yup, that's really the only way...

FreeHugeMovies · 09-16-2008, 09:56 PM

At least he finished the job right?

brandonstills · 09-16-2008, 10:16 PM

Every time someone has an idea, I've already had it or there are 100 people already doing it. I never agree to NDA's for freelance work. Otherwise everyone would be accusing me of stealing their ideas for everything I did.

CyberHustler · 09-16-2008, 10:30 PM

XXXMovie4M · 09-16-2008, 11:53 PM

so what man, you came up with the first idea so stop crying about it and come up with another one! FUCK!

gimo33 · 09-16-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Decker

XXXMovie4M · 09-16-2008, 11:58 PM

ya, what he said "HA HA"

ilbb · 09-17-2008, 12:11 AM

that's why I learned programming

V_RocKs · 09-17-2008, 01:44 AM

zThat sucks!

DarkJedi · 09-17-2008, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donners

How can you deal with situations like these?

Walk it off.

mrwilson · 09-17-2008, 05:10 AM

Cut your losses and release the script for free.
Why let him benefit from it?

09-16-2008, 02:06 PM	#1
Donners Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 689	My programmer steals my idea So I had a good idea for a script.. And I hired a programmer to do the job. Now it turns out he stole the idea and created his own competing website with the script he made. How can you deal with situations like these?

09-16-2008, 02:07 PM	#2
seeandsee Check SIG! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe (Skype: gojkoas) Posts: 50,945	Search how Facebook was created __________________ BUY MY SIG - 50$/Year Contact here

09-16-2008, 02:10 PM	#4
k0nr4d Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 9,229	non-disclosure and non-compete agreements. __________________ Mechanical Bunny Media Mechbunny Tube Script \| Mechbunny Webcam Aggregator Script \| Custom Web Development

09-16-2008, 02:14 PM	#5
MrAwesome Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 898	hunt him down __________________ CraftCannabis

09-16-2008, 02:17 PM	#6
CurrentlySober Too lazy to wipe my ass Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A Public Bathroom Posts: 38,699	kick him in the tits and stal his mrs... __________________ My AI Handywork... My Dream Gal... XXX 👁️ 👍️ 💩

09-16-2008, 02:08 PM	#3
Fucksakes Shit... Fuck! What the Hell? Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,567	happened to me many times.. whats new. how to deal with it.. learn to code yourself.

09-16-2008, 02:19 PM	#7
Smooth J. So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 61	You got owned.

09-16-2008, 02:41 PM	#12
d-null . . . Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 13,724	not enough time in the day to do everything and learn to program well, but it seems it is necessary... __________________ __________________ Looking for a custom TUBE SCRIPT that supports massive traffic, load balancing, billing support, and h264 encoding? Hit up Konrad! Looking for designs for your websites or custom tubesite design? Hit up Zuzana Designs Check out the #1 WordPress SEO Plugin: CyberSEO Suite

09-16-2008, 02:50 PM	#14
fujiko Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 566	i definitely feel ur pain.. But dont let that bother u, since u cant change wats happened. Instead focus on ur site & build it to be the best.

09-16-2008, 02:56 PM	#15
xmas13 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GFY Posts: 5,176	__________________ ICQ 557504926

09-16-2008, 02:59 PM	#16
G-Rotica Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,258	It's called work for hire. If you paid him, you own the code. __________________

09-16-2008, 03:10 PM	#17
tranza ICQ: 197-556-237 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: BRASIL !!! Posts: 57,559	It happens all the time. Did you have any contract with him? __________________ I'm just a newbie.

09-16-2008, 03:29 PM	#20
sysk Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,005	Always ask for a signed Non-disclosure Agreement (NDA) / Non-compete Agreement before you talk about your project. Good luck with this man __________________ icq: 612510168 / email: [email protected] / php ninja 4 hire

09-16-2008, 03:46 PM	#21
StarkReality Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: 4 8 15 16 23 42 Posts: 4,444	NDAs are a nice idea, but pretty useless in real life. Partner up with a friend who's a good programmer, these guys do magic and you'll go nowhere without decent tools and scripts. You need them for everything, even SEO.

09-16-2008, 03:49 PM	#22
aico Moo Moo Cow Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 14,748	As said: non-disclosure non-compete, and also hire separate programs to work on different parts of the script.

09-16-2008, 03:54 PM	#23
wheaties Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: NorCal Posts: 10,039	If it's a really good idea, and you expect this guy to do it for peanuts, then consider your site as good as duplicated. Why not go in a revenue sharing deal, that way there's mutual incentive to get the thing done, and he'll be less likely to rip it off.

09-16-2008, 04:10 PM	#26
Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life (felis madjewicus) Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In Mom & Dad's Basement Posts: 20,368	Happened to me once upon a time, I raised a shit about it and wound up getting offered a cut from the proceeds. A large number of adult bloggers around here are now running what was originally supposed to be my private setup. At least I got some cash out of it in the end. You could demand a cut for yourself and see what he has to say. otherwise you'll just have to suck it up, and find a new coder next time around...

09-16-2008, 04:37 PM	#27
Supz Arthur Flegenheimer Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 11,056	good old street justice

09-16-2008, 04:56 PM	#28
~Ray visit hardlinks.org Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas , Nv >>> [email protected] or icq 94994627 anytime Posts: 18,362	you could post the programmers name so the gfy search will find it next time as a thief __________________ Adult Backlinks for Adult Websites - Testimonials Available

09-16-2008, 05:39 PM	#32
Bojangles Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,419	Sucks to hear that, man. Ouch.

09-16-2008, 05:51 PM	#33
crockett in a van by the river Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 76,806	Hey look at it this way.. at least your coder actually finished the job with a working script. That's gotta be better than 80% of the coders out there. __________________ In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

09-16-2008, 08:21 PM	#34
UniversalPassLorence Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Califonia Posts: 3,721	You got to have contracts drafted to address all your concerns inculding non-disclosure, non-compete, intellectual property and other clauses. You should even have it signed, before you even talk about the idea with them (at least the non-disclosure). But if the programmer is non US, then you got a new set of problems __________________ $25.00 PPS for $1.00 Trial Making Webmasters Money Since 1997 ICQ: 305090349

09-16-2008, 08:22 PM	#35
UniversalPassLorence Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Califonia Posts: 3,721	You can get them off the net for a fee and customize them (inexpensive) or have a lawyer draft it (expensive). __________________ $25.00 PPS for $1.00 Trial Making Webmasters Money Since 1997 ICQ: 305090349

09-16-2008, 08:43 PM	#37
Kudles Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Here There and Everywhere Posts: 5,477	Punch him in the face __________________ Free to Play MMOs and MMORPGs

09-16-2008, 08:48 PM	#38
NickPapageorgio Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NC Posts: 8,323	Possession is 90% of the law without a detailed, signed document stating otherwise... And to the guy posting to just build the site up better yada yada, it's easy to say that in a perfect world. But remember, the guy who wrote the software is the guy who's probably going to be the best at making the most of it. ;) __________________

09-16-2008, 09:56 PM	#41
FreeHugeMovies Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 14,137	At least he finished the job right?

09-16-2008, 10:16 PM	#42
brandonstills Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Chatsworth, CA Posts: 1,964	Every time someone has an idea, I've already had it or there are 100 people already doing it. I never agree to NDA's for freelance work. Otherwise everyone would be accusing me of stealing their ideas for everything I did. __________________ Brandon Stills Industry and programming veteran [email protected] \| skype: brandonstills \| ICQ #495-171-318

09-16-2008, 10:30 PM	#43
CyberHustler Masterbaiter Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 26,709

09-16-2008, 11:53 PM	#44
XXXMovie4M Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hell Posts: 359	so what man, you came up with the first idea so stop crying about it and come up with another one! FUCK!

09-16-2008, 11:58 PM	#46
XXXMovie4M Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hell Posts: 359	ya, what he said "HA HA"

09-17-2008, 12:11 AM	#47
ilbb Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: EU - Czech republic Posts: 3,025	that's why I learned programming

09-17-2008, 01:44 AM	#48
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,422	zThat sucks!

09-17-2008, 05:10 AM	#50
mrwilson mrwilson 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: ICQ: 465406783 Posts: 5,122	Cut your losses and release the script for free. Why let him benefit from it?