The Pledge of Allegiance Court Ruling. - GoFuckYourself.com

Mr.Fiction · 06-26-2002, 06:32 PM

The "under god" part of the pledge of allegiance violates the separation of church and state and that specific part is unconstitutional, according to a court ruling released today. The decision was written by a judge appointed by Conservative Republican Richard Nixon.

Anyone care to comment?

Should the government have the right to force your kids to praise "god" even if you don't want them to?

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,53505,00.html

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 06:34 PM

Everyone should have the right to NOT believe in any God if they want to.

drunkmonkey · 06-26-2002, 06:42 PM

One of the definitions of god is: a person or thing of supreme value. Everyone has something/someone that is valuable to them and that could be considered god. I do not see "one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." as a religious statement.

It just seems weird that the Pledge of Allegience is unconstitutional. Next thing you know, the Constitution will be unconstitutional.

Juicy D. Links · 06-26-2002, 06:43 PM

Its amazing what gets into courts these days..only in America

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drunkmonkey
Everyone has something/someone that is valuable to them and that could be considered god.

How do you know that?

Maybe I have nobody that is valuable to me.

People should have the right to believe or not believe in anything at all. You shouldn't be forced to believe in anything.

drunkmonkey · 06-26-2002, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juicylinks
Its amazing what gets into courts these days..only in America

No shit. Did you hear about that women who sued some train company the other day because she got hit by a train while she was laying on the tracks? she won a few million dollars.

Maybe we should change the Pledge of Allegience to "One nation under the direct influence of Money, completely divisible in increments of 100, with justice and liberty to only those that can afford it."

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 06:48 PM

Do you know what an Atheist is?

An atheist is someone who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Why should atheist be forced to say that they believe in the existence of a God?

drunkmonkey · 06-26-2002, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear

How do you know that?

Maybe I have nobody that is valuable to me.

People should have the right to believe or not believe in anything at all. You shouldn't be forced to believe in anything.

Having the choice to not believe is valuable to you I would assume.

Scootermuze · 06-26-2002, 06:51 PM

I love the irony of this atheist guy that started the whole thing... he doesn't want his kid saying the pledge because of "under God", yet he has no problem filing suit in a court that says, "do you swear to tell the truth so help you God?"

Scootermuze · 06-26-2002, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Do you know what an Atheist is?

An atheist is someone who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Why should atheist be forced to say that they believe in the existence of a God?

I would imagine if the kid chose not to say it, it wouldn't have been a big deal. I doubt that they even considered the option before running to the courthouse..

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drunkmonkey

Having the choice to not believe is valuable to you I would assume.

Yes, because I like to have the freedom to think whatever I want.

The opposite of that would be muslim countries where you are bound by the ideas of the Quran.

Church and state should be seperate. The US is a secular country.

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scootermuze
I love the irony of this atheist guy that started the whole thing... he doesn't want his kid saying the pledge because of "under God", yet he has no problem filing suit in a court that says, "do you swear to tell the truth so help you God?"

You are not required to swear to any God in a court of law in the US.

drunkmonkey · 06-26-2002, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Do you know what an Atheist is?

An atheist is someone who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Why should atheist be forced to say that they believe in the existence of a God?

Don't get me wrong, I do not believe that anyone should be forced to say the Pledge of Allegience no more than I believe that people should be forced to not say the Pledge of Allegience. I was dealing with the wording is all. I fail to see why our justice system has to waste energy on items of such little importance when there are many more stressing issues.

Scootermuze · 06-26-2002, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear

You are not required to swear to any God in a court of law in the US.

You're not required to spend money that says, "In God we trust" either, but I bet this guy does.. why hasn't he sued to have that removed from our money I wonder..

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drunkmonkey

Don't get me wrong, I do not believe that anyone should be forced to say the Pledge of Allegience no more than I believe that people should be forced to not say the Pledge of Allegience. I was dealing with the wording is all. I fail to see why our justice system has to waste energy on items of such little importance when there are many more stressing issues.

This might not be a big deal to you, but it may be a big deal to lots of other people.

The justice system doesn't sit around and pick and choose which issues it thinks are more important than others, and then go to work on only certain issues and leave the others to be decided if they have some spare time in the future.

Singer · 06-26-2002, 07:01 PM

god is great/

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scootermuze

You're not required to spend money that says, "In God we trust" either, but I bet this guy does.. why hasn't he sued to have that removed from our money I wonder..

This stuff takes time to change, I'm sure he's not happy about it, but its not exactly easy to make it change overnight.

mike503 · 06-26-2002, 07:05 PM

i've always wondered about this. seems like even though there is a seperation of church and state, the US is still rooted in catholic belief.

"God bless America" says it all. what about athiests?

what i think is funny is the very same figure in catholic religion "God" is the same "God" figure that the middle eastern people suicide bomb in the name of. go figure.

religion sucks because people are blinded by it.

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 07:09 PM

Religion is stupid, but it helps weak minded people sleep at night because it gives them an instruction manual on how to live.

Religious people can't hack it on their own beliefs, so they follow others like sheep and accept other peoples ideas as their own.

Scootermuze · 06-26-2002, 07:10 PM

I have no problem with atheism, but it's alot like the catholic race.. The kids seem to born into it.. What if the child had no problem participating? Sounds to me like the guy is dictating how his kid should believe.

When I was in the 6th grade, we had a catholic teacher who would read a few verses from the catholic bible and say a prayer every morning. I didn't participate in the prayer because I'm not catholic and had no use for it.. and I doubt that any of the kids listened to his reading, but it wasn't so big of a deal that actions were taken to stop it.

jimmyf · 06-26-2002, 07:11 PM

This will get over tured.. 100% bull shit.

and it has been the law for some time, if the kids do not want to
say it they don't have to.

You have to remember the 9th circuit has been over turned so many times... the 9th circuit should have been split up ages ago...
There was talk about doing that 4 or 5 years ago... maybe it will happen now... because according what am seeing on the news it's really pissed people off.... include me..as being pissed off..

I wonder how the Judges feel when they cash there Gov't checks with in god we trust on them. fucking dip shits...

jimmyf · 06-26-2002, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scootermuze
I love the irony of this atheist guy that started the whole thing... he doesn't want his kid saying the pledge because of "under God", yet he has no problem filing suit in a court that says, "do you swear to tell the truth so help you God?"

Well he's getting his 15 min.'s of fame.... he just might not like it
though.... he's made a lot of people mad as hell.. I bet within two weeks he has to go into hidding...

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 07:18 PM

Why do you guys care so much that the word "God" is in the pledge of allegiance?

It doesn't mean that the pledge itself is going to be scrapped, just the "god" part of it.

Are you guys hardcore religious or something?

jimmyf · 06-26-2002, 07:21 PM

Brown Bear

There not be one thing scrapped in the pledge of allegiance?

hardcore religious

Nope I don't even go to church any longer... Did when I was a younger...

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 07:27 PM

The words "under God" were added in 1954 by then President Eisenhower, who stated at the time, "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

drunkmonkey · 06-26-2002, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Why do you guys care so much that the word "God" is in the pledge of allegiance?

I was wondering the same about yourself.

Personally, I could give a shit about the word "god" being in the Pledge. My surprise is at the ferver most "non-religious" people attack anything they see as "religious" when, in fact, they are becoming religious themselves by the mere act. Religion CAN be defined as a faith in a Supreme being. However, I prefer the definition of "a cause, principle, or belief held to with faith and ardor." The acquisition of money is some peoples religion. The freedom of speech is others. Religion comes in many forms and one of them is attacking others for their beliefs.

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drunkmonkey

I was wondering the same about yourself.

Personally, I could give a shit about the word "god" being in the Pledge. My surprise is at the ferver most "non-religious" people attack anything they see as "religious" when, in fact, they are becoming religious themselves by the mere act. Religion CAN be defined as a faith in a Supreme being. However, I prefer the definition of "a cause, principle, or belief held to with faith and ardor." The acquisition of money is some peoples religion. The freedom of speech is others. Religion comes in many forms and one of them is attacking others for their beliefs.

They are not "attacking others for their beliefs"

They are protecting themselves from having others force beliefs upon them.

Scootermuze · 06-26-2002, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear

They are not "attacking others for their beliefs"

They are protecting themselves from having others force beliefs upon them.

I have a problem thinking that a child reciting the Pledge of Allegiance is going to be 'forced' into any religious beliefs. It's just another situation where the parent wants to make a big deal over something that the child probably never even thought about, or was even concerned about.

drunkmonkey · 06-26-2002, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear

They are not "attacking others for their beliefs"

They are protecting themselves from having others force beliefs upon them.

Where we differ, obviously, is that I fail to see "under god" as forcing me to believe. You seem to feel it is an attack of your freedom of religion. I see it as words which have no bearing on my way of life whatsoever. God, I love America. (no offence meant in that last statement

)

mike503 · 06-26-2002, 08:04 PM

the issue isn't parents telling their kids what to think or the kids not knowing what they're saying so it has no effect on them.. it's the hypocracy of the government.

dollar bills say "in god we trust"
the pledge of allegiance talks about god
"god bless america" is what people say in times of trouble

when there is a law seperating church and state, where "god" is represented by a church and dollar bills, allegiance and everything else represent state, isn't it some sort of hypocracy?

that's my beef with the whole issue.

just my

StacyCat · 06-26-2002, 08:07 PM

Why not just get rid of the "under god" portion of it?

And we have sued to get rid of the "in god we trust" portion of the money, however, the supreme court has refused to rule on it. With this magnitude of a case, they most likely will have to rule on this one. With the rullings come out in the later years reguarding prayer in school and "establishment" it will get overturned. However, even if the Supreme court fails to rule, those stats covered by the 9th court will have to get rid of it.

RW316 · 06-26-2002, 08:08 PM

hrmm... so how would the new pledge go then??

[Labret] · 06-26-2002, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Religion is stupid, but it helps weak minded people sleep at night because it gives them an instruction manual on how to live.

Religious people can't hack it on their own beliefs, so they follow others like sheep and accept other peoples ideas as their own.

Well there it is.

A subject that has had more written about it in the history of literature itself than all other subjects combined, destroyed in 2 sentences on a porn webmaster board.

To even remotely try and pigeonhole all religious thought and practice and liken it to merely sheep following someone elses beliefs is absurd.

Myth and ritual have had such a profound effect on human and cultural evolution that to just label religion as some ignorant folly is to basically negate history and prove your own ignorance about the subject at hand.

Just stepping back and looking at the theories behind the collective subconscious and its effect on the development of myth (and religion) is enough to blow most peoples tiny little minds.

I get the feeling you are confusing your views of mainstream evangelical christianity with all religious thought. Dangerous and ignorant.

Hawkeye · 06-26-2002, 08:08 PM

The best part about this whole thing is watching all the right-wing blowhards completely bust their tops talking about this.

Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Jerry Falwell etc are going ballistic and I think it's hilarious. It should be fun listening to the dipshits call in to Rush Limbaugh tomorrow.

You can't pay for this kind of comedy...

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike503
the issue isn't parents telling their kids what to think or the kids not knowing what they're saying so it has no effect on them.. it's the hypocracy of the government.

dollar bills say "in god we trust"
the pledge of allegiance talks about god
"god bless america" is what people say in times of trouble

when there is a law seperating church and state, where "god" is represented by a church and dollar bills, allegiance and everything else represent state, isn't it some sort of hypocracy?

that's my beef with the whole issue.

just my

Exactly, this is an issue about seperation of church and state.

It is unconstitutional for the US government to endorse religion. It must be neutral.

Scootermuze · 06-26-2002, 08:09 PM

Atheists may not believe in God, but do they believe in the bible?

Kimmykim · 06-26-2002, 08:19 PM

Interesting comment about the 9th Circuit -- anyone in this business should praise whatever they either believe or don't believe in for the 9th, since it's the one that more times than not issues decisions that are good for this industry.

drunkmonkey · 06-26-2002, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Interesting comment about the 9th Circuit -- anyone in this business should praise whatever they either believe or don't believe in for the 9th, since it's the one that more times than not issues decisions that are good for this industry.

True

bhutocracy · 06-26-2002, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scootermuze

When I was in the 6th grade, we had a catholic teacher who would read a few verses from the catholic bible and say a prayer every morning. I didn't participate in the prayer because I'm not catholic and had no use for it.. and I doubt that any of the kids listened to his reading, but it wasn't so big of a deal that actions were taken to stop it.

If my taxes are paying that teacher to teach the curriculum, then im about as happy with him saying a prayer and reading a few verses as i am with him rubbing a quick one out and being 5 minutes late for class. No offence, but my taxes don't go towards people wasting time in class pushing their own beliefs.. regardless of if the kids didn't mind or thought it was a cool time waster where they could talk or pass notes for 5 minutes.

But drunkmonkey as a very "religious" person, you're not likely to see having to say "under god" as a problem at all..
However, what if the pledge of allegiance said :"one nation under SATAN"..
sure that pledge of allegiance wouldn't "force you to believe" that.. but you sure as hell wouldn't be so ambivalent about it.. you think thats a pretty silly thing huh? pledging allegiance under SATAN.. you think it would never happen.. why? because people CARE enough about it that it wouldn't.. you'd have words about your kids having to say that in class or be left out.. you'd be shitty about the government forcing it's satanic beliefs into the legislation.. and i mean sure.. pledging allegiance under satan won't affect anything.. not going to do anything to my kid.. it's just words... harmless words that he doesn't have to say... it's just that im not a satanist and i don't agree that it should be pressured into the legislation.. especially when the constitution says there is a seperation of church and state. thats the issue.

[Labret] · 06-26-2002, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scootermuze
Atheists may not believe in God, but do they believe in the bible?

I am no big fan of Judaism / Islam / Christianity, but you cant deny the importance of the Bible as a historical document.

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 08:25 PM

Good post bhutocracy

bhutocracy · 06-26-2002, 08:30 PM

oh and drunkmonkey, there are "" around "religious" because I know that you'll protest the meaning.

bhutocracy · 06-26-2002, 08:34 PM

brown bear... thats just the way I see it.
Theres no problem with having those sayings on money, pledges etc if you're in a theocracy.. just, the US constitution is very clear on this topic... even if it is a theocracy by proxy.

drunkmonkey · 06-26-2002, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bhutocracy

If my taxes are paying that teacher to teach the curriculum, then im about as happy with him saying a prayer and reading a few verses as i am with him rubbing a quick one out and being 5 minutes late for class. No offence, but my taxes don't go towards people wasting time in class pushing their own beliefs.. regardless of if the kids didn't mind or thought it was a cool time waster where they could talk or pass notes for 5 minutes.

But drunkmonkey as a very "religious" person, you're not likely to see having to say "under god" as a problem at all..
However, what if the pledge of allegiance said :"one nation under SATAN"..
sure that pledge of allegiance wouldn't "force you to believe" that.. but you sure as hell wouldn't be so ambivalent about it.. you think thats a pretty silly thing huh? pledging allegiance under SATAN.. you think it would never happen.. why? because people CARE enough about it that it wouldn't.. you'd have words about your kids having to say that in class or be left out.. you'd be shitty about the government forcing it's satanic beliefs into the legislation.. and i mean sure.. pledging allegiance under satan won't affect anything.. not going to do anything to my kid.. it's just words... harmless words that he doesn't have to say... it's just that im not a satanist and i don't agree that it should be pressured into the legislation.. especially when the constitution says there is a seperation of church and state. thats the issue.

I'm religious? I take it because I do not believe in evolution that makes me a religious person. I am far from religious (assuming that we are defining religious here as a faith in a higher power).

Satan, however, is a definable character. Using his name in a pledge would irritate me. Not because of any religious conotation but because I pledge myself to no person or entity. I would be just as irritated if the word god was replaced with Mickey Mouse. The word god is not defineable in the pledge and has different meaning to different people. The god of christianity is different than the god of the muslims which is different than the god of the jews which is different than the god of capitalism which is different than the god of the atheist, etc....

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 08:41 PM

The pledge of allegiance existed for decades without the mention of god in it.

bhutocracy · 06-26-2002, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drunkmonkey

I'm religious? I take it because I do not believe in evolution that makes me a religious person. I am far from religious (assuming that we are defining religious here as a faith in a higher power).

anyone that believes in the biblical flood, that the earth is 6000 years old and believes in creation isn't not religious.

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drunkmonkey

I'm religious? I take it because I do not believe in evolution that makes me a religious person. I am far from religious (assuming that we are defining religious here as a faith in a higher power).

Satan, however, is a definable character. Using his name in a pledge would irritate me. Not because of any religious conotation but because I pledge myself to no person or entity. I would be just as irritated if the word god was replaced with Mickey Mouse. The word god is not defineable in the pledge and has different meaning to different people. The god of christianity is different than the god of the muslims which is different than the god of the jews which is different than the god of capitalism which is different than the god of the atheist, etc....

It doesn't matter if the word "god" represents any individual religion or not.

It is unconstitutional for the US government to promote religion in general.

drunkmonkey · 06-26-2002, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]

I am no big fan of Judaism / Islam / Christianity, but you cant deny the importance of the Bible as a historical document.

This is true. You can hate the Bible but you cannot deny its impact. To shun it as the work of idiots is ignoring some serious facts.

bhutocracy · 06-26-2002, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drunkmonkey

Satan, however, is a definable character.

we know from the statements by the people that first put the "under god" into the pledge exactly which definable god character they meant.. it certainly wasn't Vishnu.

they didn't say "we're putting the god of the muslims - allah into the constitution"

Brown Bear · 06-26-2002, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drunkmonkey

This is true. You can hate the Bible but you cannot deny its impact. To shun it as the work of idiots is ignoring some serious facts.

You're assuming that religion has been a good thing for human society. Some people would argue that a world that never had any religion at all throughout history would have been better.

Religion has definitely had a huge impact, but whether it has been good or not is questionable.

06-26-2002, 06:32 PM	#1
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,484	The Pledge of Allegiance Court Ruling. The "under god" part of the pledge of allegiance violates the separation of church and state and that specific part is unconstitutional, according to a court ruling released today. The decision was written by a judge appointed by Conservative Republican Richard Nixon. Anyone care to comment? Should the government have the right to force your kids to praise "god" even if you don't want them to? http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,53505,00.html

06-26-2002, 06:34 PM	#2
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Everyone should have the right to NOT believe in any God if they want to. __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

06-26-2002, 06:48 PM	#7
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Do you know what an Atheist is? An atheist is someone who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods. Why should atheist be forced to say that they believe in the existence of a God? __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

06-26-2002, 07:01 PM	#16
Singer Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Penn State University Main Campus Posts: 437	god is great/ __________________ www.JesusBoard.com

06-26-2002, 07:05 PM	#18
mike503 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: oregon. Posts: 2,243	i've always wondered about this. seems like even though there is a seperation of church and state, the US is still rooted in catholic belief. "God bless America" says it all. what about athiests? what i think is funny is the very same figure in catholic religion "God" is the same "God" figure that the middle eastern people suicide bomb in the name of. go figure. religion sucks because people are blinded by it. __________________ php/mysql guru. hosting, coding, all that jazz.

06-26-2002, 06:42 PM	#3
drunkmonkey Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: behind you Posts:1,075,324 Posts: 799	One of the definitions of god is: a person or thing of supreme value. Everyone has something/someone that is valuable to them and that could be considered god. I do not see "one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." as a religious statement. It just seems weird that the Pledge of Allegience is unconstitutional. Next thing you know, the Constitution will be unconstitutional.

06-26-2002, 06:43 PM	#4
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	Its amazing what gets into courts these days..only in America

06-26-2002, 06:51 PM	#9
Scootermuze Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,513	I love the irony of this atheist guy that started the whole thing... he doesn't want his kid saying the pledge because of "under God", yet he has no problem filing suit in a court that says, "do you swear to tell the truth so help you God?"

06-26-2002, 07:09 PM	#19
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Religion is stupid, but it helps weak minded people sleep at night because it gives them an instruction manual on how to live. Religious people can't hack it on their own beliefs, so they follow others like sheep and accept other peoples ideas as their own. __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

06-26-2002, 07:10 PM	#20
Scootermuze Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,513	I have no problem with atheism, but it's alot like the catholic race.. The kids seem to born into it.. What if the child had no problem participating? Sounds to me like the guy is dictating how his kid should believe. When I was in the 6th grade, we had a catholic teacher who would read a few verses from the catholic bible and say a prayer every morning. I didn't participate in the prayer because I'm not catholic and had no use for it.. and I doubt that any of the kids listened to his reading, but it wasn't so big of a deal that actions were taken to stop it.

06-26-2002, 07:11 PM	#21
jimmyf OU812 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: California Posts: 12,651	This will get over tured.. 100% bull shit. and it has been the law for some time, if the kids do not want to say it they don't have to. You have to remember the 9th circuit has been over turned so many times... the 9th circuit should have been split up ages ago... There was talk about doing that 4 or 5 years ago... maybe it will happen now... because according what am seeing on the news it's really pissed people off.... include me..as being pissed off.. I wonder how the Judges feel when they cash there Gov't checks with in god we trust on them. fucking dip shits... __________________ Epic CashEpic Cash works for me Solar Cash Paysite Plugin Gallery of the day freesites,POTD,Gallery generator with free hosting

06-26-2002, 07:18 PM	#23
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Why do you guys care so much that the word "God" is in the pledge of allegiance? It doesn't mean that the pledge itself is going to be scrapped, just the "god" part of it. Are you guys hardcore religious or something? __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

06-26-2002, 07:21 PM	#24
jimmyf OU812 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: California Posts: 12,651	Brown Bear There not be one thing scrapped in the pledge of allegiance? hardcore religious Nope I don't even go to church any longer... Did when I was a younger... __________________ Epic CashEpic Cash works for me Solar Cash Paysite Plugin Gallery of the day freesites,POTD,Gallery generator with free hosting

06-26-2002, 07:27 PM	#25
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	The words "under God" were added in 1954 by then President Eisenhower, who stated at the time, "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war." __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

06-26-2002, 08:04 PM	#30
mike503 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: oregon. Posts: 2,243	the issue isn't parents telling their kids what to think or the kids not knowing what they're saying so it has no effect on them.. it's the hypocracy of the government. dollar bills say "in god we trust" the pledge of allegiance talks about god "god bless america" is what people say in times of trouble when there is a law seperating church and state, where "god" is represented by a church and dollar bills, allegiance and everything else represent state, isn't it some sort of hypocracy? that's my beef with the whole issue. just my __________________ php/mysql guru. hosting, coding, all that jazz.

06-26-2002, 08:07 PM	#31
StacyCat Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,167	Why not just get rid of the "under god" portion of it? And we have sued to get rid of the "in god we trust" portion of the money, however, the supreme court has refused to rule on it. With this magnitude of a case, they most likely will have to rule on this one. With the rullings come out in the later years reguarding prayer in school and "establishment" it will get overturned. However, even if the Supreme court fails to rule, those stats covered by the 9th court will have to get rid of it.

06-26-2002, 08:08 PM	#32
RW316 Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,103	hrmm... so how would the new pledge go then??

06-26-2002, 08:08 PM	#34
Hawkeye Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,291	The best part about this whole thing is watching all the right-wing blowhards completely bust their tops talking about this. Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Jerry Falwell etc are going ballistic and I think it's hilarious. It should be fun listening to the dipshits call in to Rush Limbaugh tomorrow. You can't pay for this kind of comedy...

06-26-2002, 08:09 PM	#36
Scootermuze Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,513	Atheists may not believe in God, but do they believe in the bible?

06-26-2002, 08:19 PM	#37
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Interesting comment about the 9th Circuit -- anyone in this business should praise whatever they either believe or don't believe in for the 9th, since it's the one that more times than not issues decisions that are good for this industry.

06-26-2002, 08:25 PM	#41
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Good post bhutocracy __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

06-26-2002, 08:30 PM	#42
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	oh and drunkmonkey, there are "" around "religious" because I know that you'll protest the meaning.

06-26-2002, 08:34 PM	#43
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	brown bear... thats just the way I see it. Theres no problem with having those sayings on money, pledges etc if you're in a theocracy.. just, the US constitution is very clear on this topic... even if it is a theocracy by proxy.

06-26-2002, 08:41 PM	#45
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	The pledge of allegiance existed for decades without the mention of god in it. __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.