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Here is someting that i read on the net, 100% TRUE ! :


Speaking Truth to the Powerless:
An Open Letter To The People Commonly Called "Palestinians"
by David White - May 26, 2002
Greetings to any Palestinian who may be reading this. My name is David White. I am a citizen of New Zealand, a small, Western, nominally Christian country in the South Pacific Ocean. I am not Jewish, or Christian, I guess I'm vaguely agnostic.
Writing this letter is a good way for me to discuss the horrible mess in the Middle East, spell out as many relevant points as possible concerning the state of the Palestinian people, and to see what can be made of them. I don't speak Arabic, so I can only communicate with English-speaking Palestinians. There aren't many here in NZ, though, and I haven't yet met any. I don't know how many will ever see these words, but, here's hoping someone does.

I have a post-graduate university education, and I suppose I could be called an intellectual. Unfortunately, many such people have supported abhorrent ideologies such as Nazism, and continue to support Communism, so I refuse to describe myself in this way. I don't want to considered as just another "trendy leftie" academic, as we would say in NZ. So, unlike many university-educated types, I am anti-totalitarian, pro-peace up to a point,pro-democracy, pro-capitalism (except the capitalists running Enron), and skeptical about the "cult of victimhood." I'm quite safe here in New Zealand, and no-one I know has been killed by a Palestinian.

My perspective of Palestinians is something like this - you're Arabs (of course), mostly Muslim, but with a Christian minority. Many of you live outside Gaza/West Bank, mostly in Jordan and other Muslim countries, with some groups living in Western countries as well. You feel that you have been wronged by Israel and are fighting to destroy them.

As for my perspective on Israel, I see them like this. They are a mainly Jewish, small, free-market democracy with a large Arab minority surrounded by hostile Arab dictatorships. They have an ancestral claim to Israel, their state was created as a refuge from persecution, they have a right to exist, and, having survived a holocaust in Europe, they should not have to sit still and wait for another one in the Middle East.

A Down Under Overview.

Over the last few months, the conflict in the disputed territories of Gaza and the West Bank has turned into a war between the Palestinian people and Israel. (I will not apologise for using the term "disputed", as I believe it reflects a rather complicated situation more accurately than "occupied").

Your interpretation, as far as I can tell, seems to be something like this: You have no state of your own, and you are fighting a war against those you call "Zionist oppressors" and "colonial imperialists", in order to create a Palestinian state. Accusations of massacre and human rights violations by the Israeli Army are being tossed around like confetti. Your leader, Yasser Arafat, vows to "martyr" himself rather than "surrender", and that bungling and incompetent organization, the United Nations (again, no apologies for venting personal opinions), is trying to do what it is constitutionally incapable of doing, i.e. "saving future generations from the scourge of war".

The Israelis see things differently, of course. For them, it's a simple battle for survival. They offered you a state, and you attacked them instead. They have occupied Palestinian towns, have fought it out with various armed groups, and desperate attempts are being made by the US, other Arab countries and the UN to break the so-called "cycle of violence". As a result, the Palestinian situation at the moment generally, can be explained by putting it into New Zealand idiom.

Put bluntly, the Palestinian people are buggered. Munted. Stuffed. Rooted. (American equivalent=screwed. British equivalent: done over). It's like this: Yasser Arafat turned down the Israeli offer of a Palestinian homeland in Gaza and the West Bank. You want, or Arafat claims that you want, a Palestine "from the river to the sea;" in other words, "all or nothing".

There is one insuperable obstacle to this- Israel. No matter how eloquent your arguments or numerous your martyrs, no matter how many European diplomats are angered by, or UN resolutions are passed against, Israel, the Israelis are not going to pack up and leave. The only way you will get the Palestinian state you want is to destroy Israel.

This is what you have been trying to do since 1948, and the current "intifada" launched in 2000 is your latest effort. However, the Israelis are not standing there and letting you kill them. They are fighting back, and if they have to choose between their own survival and yours, guess which choice they'll make.

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A Vast Wringing Of Hands, A Great Fluttering Of Diplomats. That has been the overall response to the disaster you have created for yourselves. You, the Palestinian Arabs, are obviously hoping for some kind of international intervention to save you. As we in New Zealand would say, "Get Real!".

The European Union and the UN have demonstrated on numerous occasions in the past their incompetence and total incapacity to take any sort of firm action without American leadership. Ask your Muslim brothers of Bosnia-Herzegovina, about how effective the EU and the UN were in protecting them without American intervention. In spite of the impression that American diplomatic efforts have created, the US will not take sides against Israel, and will eventually abandon its futile attempts at evenhandedness. If they do join forces militarily with Israel in their war against terrorism, your fighters will be snuffed out like candle flames.

As for your "beloved Arab brothers" in the Middle East, they make a great deal of noise about your "liberation struggle", and have sent money and arms, but have not sent a single tank to save you. Their diplomatic proposals are ones that could have been offered at any time, and are aimed at benefiting them, not Palestinians.The Egyptians themselves will not declare war on Israel unless they receive $100 billion to cover their costs.

Do you really believe that the rest of your Arab Muslim brothers think you are worth that much? Do you really believe they will put your interests ahead of their own? Although your friends and Arabs in Europe are passing sanctions and burning synagogues in your support, not a single EU warship has sailed to your aid, and not a single NATO aircraft has dropped a single bomb on your "Zionist oppressors".

I have noted that large numbers of people, including university educated intellectuals support the Palestinian cause. Don't be misled by this. No matter how many western intellectuals, news media and international organisations may support the Palestinian struggle, none of this matters because America stands by Israel.

The Unbearable Burden of Life

How did you get into such a mess? As you yourselves would say and have indeed said on many occasions, it isn't your fault. It's always the "Great Satan" America, and it's "Lesser Satan", Israel, that you blame for all your woes. Everything that you do, such as your "martyrdom operations", are described as the products of your "rage" at being "dispossessed of your land", and of your "helplessness" in the face of "Zionist" might.

There are only 300 million Arabs against over 5 million Jews! How unfair! How unjust, that so many can do so little against so few!

A number of Western commentators have put Arab failures down to numerous cultural factors, not the least being Islam. Your religious beliefs in martyrdom and jihad, coupled with a total inability to accept any blame for your own predicament, have combined to do you great and lasting damage.

Look closely at why Western countries such as Israel have succeeded, and Muslim countries have not. Western countries are free-market democracies. Muslim countries (other than Turkey) aren't. Surely that should tell you something.

Why I Stand.

As I said, I do not, and I will not, support the Palestinian cause. Why not? I have a number of reasons, and here they are:

1. You have made it clear beyond any shadow of doubt that you intend to destroy Israel and kill or drive out its Jewish population. This is genocide, pure and simple. You justify this by saying that Israel has committed many crimes against your people, and that you seek "justice". I say this in response- NOTHING WHATSOEVER is an acceptable justification for genocide. Loss of land, humiliation at being militarily defeated - others have suffered these and moved on to create new nations and opportunities for themselves.
Examples abound- the Germans thrown out of East Prussia in Europe, 1945, the Nationalist Chinese who fled to Taiwan in 1949, to name but two. Germans and Taiwanese have coped with military defeat and the loss of land. They haven't warred with their neighbours, nor have they launched terrorist attacks upon them. Both countries have more wealth than any Arab nation. Why can't Palestinians cope? Are Germans and Chinese better able to deal with adversity than Arabs?

2. You have accused the Israelis of "genocide" against you. Here's a question for you: Israel has atomic bombs and powerful military forces. If they really, truly wanted you all dead, they could easily do it. Why haven't they? If the Israelis went all-out, you would be, as we say in New Zealand, "dog tucker". Why did they spend so much time negotiating with your leaders? Because Israel wants peace and secure borders. You refuse to give them even those. You plan genocide and accuse Israel of the same crime. Prove it!

3. The use of terrorism. Killing people for being Jewish is despicable. Terrorist attacks on innocent civilians are also despicable. (At this point, I'd like to pause and get a question of nomenclature cleared up, regarding those Palestinians who kill themselves and others with explosives strapped to their bodies. You call them "martyrs". Western media sources and academics debate the precise term to use in describing them. Others, including the Israelis, call them terrorists.


I have a better, more appropriate term. I prefer to use the word "kamikazes". The original kamikazes appeared in 1944, in the war in the Pacific. They were Japanese Navy and Army pilots,organised into "Special Attack Units" with orders to crash their planes into American warships, in the hope of destroying them - "one plane, one ship". Their initial impact was similar to that of the Al-Quaeda attacks on New York and the Pentagon- shock and horror. (I noted that many Palestinians appeared on Western TV celebrating the September attacks). Note: The American response, in both cases was not the one hoped for.

Once the shock had worn off, the US set out to destroy the kamikazes, and terrible destruction was rained down on Japan, ending only with 2 atomic bombs. You know what is happening right now in Afghanistan to the Al-Quaeda group).

4. Using children as suicide bombers. Anyone who teaches children to kill themselves in suicide attacks is not worth supporting under any circumstances. For you to do this to your children is an abomination. A commentator on a Web magazine said that if the Palestinians laid down their arms, they would get peace and land. If the Israelis laid down their arms, they would be killed. You know that is true, even if most of Europe doesn't. Your cause is evil, because it seeks destruction at any price. Genocide is not justice. Sacrificing your own children for the sake of your leader's personal ambitions is wicked.

That's why I cannot support you. That's why I stand with Israel.

Palestinian Past or Future?

The Second World War in Europe ended with Hitler's suicide. He was replaced by Admiral Doenitz who quickly made peace with the Allies. Japan's leader, Emperor Hirohito, decided on surrender rather than see his nation destroyed.

If Arafat chooses surrender, though, will the rest of the Palestinians go along with it? If he dies, will the war end? If the answer to both of these questions is No, then the Palestinian people are doomed. Do you really prefer death as a people? Do you fully comprehend what you are doing? If you are indeed aware that the path you have embarked on leads to destruction, and if you have freely chosen to walk in that direction, then as a people you are truly beyond hope.

Are Palestinians really going to be a "Kamikaze Nation"? Are you really going to give Israel no other option except your destruction? If they must choose, then as Israeli historian Martin Van Creveld said, "better a terrible end than terror without end".

Do not think that kamikaze tactics can get you what you want. The Israelis can tell you all about Masada, if you ask them. Remember what happened to the Japanese at places like Okinawa and Iwo Jima. Palestinians deserve better than the current mess you are in now - but before you can be given anything, you must offer a sincere peace, you must stop teaching your children to hate, you must stop believing that "victimhood" justifies everything and - above all other things - GIVE UP ISRAEL! Accept that you will never go there again except perhaps as workers or tourists. Accept that Jews are human beings. Accept the verdict of 1948 and learn to live with it.

Invest in banks, not bombs. Build computer chips, not Kalashnikovs. Teach science and mathematics, not hate. Look to the future, not the past. Stop blaming Americans and Jews for all your problems, and take responsibility for your own actions. Read those parts in the Quran about living with the "peoples of the Book".

Golda Meir, the former Israeli Prime minister, is quoted as saying " there will be peace in the Middle East only when the Arabs love their children more than they hate Israel ". Every time I see pictures of Palestinian children waving guns and wearing dummy explosives, then I can only say she is right. The alternative to peace is not victory but death.

Think about it- before it's too late.

From an Infidel to Those Who Submit, and are living in the Holy Land - May God grant you steadfastness in the face of things that cannot be changed, the capacity to cope with those that can be changed, and the wisdom and the ability to tell the difference.

David White
Auckland, New Zealand

Goonx

Fuck it. I'm not reading all that!

[Labret]

congrats on the post that nobody will read.

gallerypost

well, heh.. i'm sure that there will be a few bored gfyers that would read it and tell all of us in short what written in there ;)

jimmy3way

Me neither, but I will light a candle.

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jimmyf

Am not bored and I read every word...

And it is very well written. Wish I could write like that.

And he told it exactly like it is and EXACTLY what is going to happen... They are history if they don't get new and very strong leadership. Shit there supposed brothers don't even want there sorry ass's.

I say fuck'em... wipe'em out.

What happens to a mad dog when we find one.
Yes I think they are in the same class as a mad dog.

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Gramlengo

I have one thing to say to you all fuckers that make fucking jokes and all that shit about light a candle!!!!
SCREW YOU MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!
I'm from Israel, and i'm 14 years old.
And I read every word this great dude wrote, and I have only one thing to say: FUCKING A!
I can't help that you are a bunch of fucking slackers, and "can't" read the goddamn letter!
You don't live here... You don't know how its like out here...
do SHUT THE FUCK UP, and for all I care you can
GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!

[Labret]

The premise of the entire article is wrong, therefore the rest of it is bullshit.



No you do not have a right to exist, and you do not have an ancestral claim.

The original inhabitants of Israel were spread throughout the diaspora after Rome sacked you in AD 70. NONE of you are ancestors of the original inhabitants.

You are a religion, not a race.

Whats a 14 year old Jew doing on a porn webmaster message board anyways?

Gramlengo

First of all,
I am not a jew... I am christian like you guys...
Second of all,
you will be surprised what kids these days do...
And i'm writing this beacuse let me tell you, pepole are afraid to go out...
Afraid to be shot...
And all this shit!!!

sexyclicks

I read the whole thing...same old bullshit

srikanth79

I read all of it :-)

[Labret]

How very Christian of you.


If I took over someones land and forced them into ghettos in my back yard, I would not be suprised when they get mad and blow up my garage.

Dont like it?

Move.



I have reached a new low. Arguing with 14 year olds.

eru

Very well written. That writer nailed everything down perfectly. I doubt that Palestine would ever stop fighting. Just like the rest of the Middle East, they are too religious. Science has proven that deities do not exist. They are just too stone-headed to invest in knowledge... I say Israel should start a scorched earth campaign against Palestine and any other oppresors. USA should back them and so should other wounded countries from terrorist attacks.

-eru

Gramlengo

Ok, if it was only my garge it would not be so goddamn shity!
But when a fucker comes to a wedding and blows himself up and killes dozens of people and a two monthes old girl... Its somthing else!

And just beacuse im christien it does not mean I cant say all kind of shit... Ok maybe if i'm ammish or something...

Hoooooo
and belive me i'm moving, belive me!

CDSmith

While I agree in part that there are a few errors in his thinking, I must point out that the closing paragraphs of the letter do contain much wisdom and straight facts. The fact is there are only 2 choices for the PLO here.... fight until Isreal is destroyed, or get on with life and live and let live.

But Isrealis also have a choice... stay and keep yourselves and families at risk, or move. There are millions of Jews in the US and Canada that seem to be able to maintain their faith and culture without having to actually live in a war zone.

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Paul Markham

He thinks in a couple af pages of A4 he cans solve a 3,000 year conflict.

The guys has an ego that makes mine look like a persecution complex

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BabeHunter

hehe...don't worry guys...it will all be over soon... ;)

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Yep

gallerypost

Labret, we already heard your stories about the "torah" and etc... trust us... all of us in gfy already understood that you are a nazi and would like that all the jews would be dead.

So... Go Fuck Yourself !

[Labret]

*makes sock puppet hand motion*

Of course I am a nazi, because I disagree with the existence of Israel. Isnt everyone who disagrees with Israel a nazi?

Which reminds me, you never answered my question.

But then again, you rarely do. Just more fingerpointing and accusations with nothing to back it up.

quiet

joy - another palestinians vs jews thread.

foe

I read the whole thing too, and I completely agree with you.

foe

The why do you need to say 14 year old jew why not just 14 year old? Does his religeon matter or his age, to you religion obviously plays an important role in who should be allowed in the forum.

2 things bout that, it could have been better written with the following 2 points

1. Jews have been in Israel constantely for 2000 years.
2. On 1948 Jews brought and owned most of the land of Israel from arab tribes that where living there.

foe

Also as many Jews lived in israel in 1948 as Arabs read a history book. Also land was given to the arabs, its called Jordan, look into that too.

[Labret]

This is what I said



Yes, it does matter. What would any self respecting Jew or Christian or Mulsim be doing on a porn board, or working in the porn industry?

I know alot of people like to delude themselves into thinking they are good christians/jews/muslims while making bukkake galleries, but they are full of shit. You cannot claim any of the big 3 and work in porn. Period. Ask your Priest, Cleric, Rabbi and see what they say about it.

So yes, what is a 14 year old jew (come to find out xtian) doing on a porn board?

foe

Wow Im suprised the kid didnt even mention he is Jewish you just assumed that anyone living in Israel is a Jew, but what you forget is unlike arab countries Israel is a democracy, which you still do not support, and Israel actually has a large christian/ atheist population. Maybe you should stop generalizing.

[Labret]

You are going to sit there and tell me that it is a stretch of the imagination to assume someone is a Jew when they post from the Jewish homeland complaining about Palestinians.

Nice try.

From what I found online, 82% of the population of Israel is Jewish. 14% Muslim. How many xtians does that leave?

And from that, yes, one can generalize. He could have been a Hindu, but the odds are in my favor.

foe

Jewish 80.1%, Muslim 14.6% (mostly Sunni Muslim), Christian 2.1%, other 3.2% (1996 est.) from cia fact book.

foe

the point I was trying to make though is nothign to do with the chances, the point was what does his being jewish have anythign to do with him defending israel.

Additionally look at US support of Israel, does that mean that they are jewish as well?

seven

Hey I have a post-graduate university education too.. never thought I could be called an intellectual thou cos of that. However, maybe I should write An Open Letter To The People Commonly Called "Israelis" instead. What? For god's sakes no? Okay okay I'll spare you guys then

Anyways, what the heck is that little twarp doing on an adult webmaster board? Shouldn't he wait 4 more years to come to this board? Did his mother never teach him not to say the "f" word ever? Darn spoiled kids should be sent to Jenny Jones show for a free boot camp or something!

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foe

Completely agree with you on that a 14 year old should not be on an adult webmaster site

[Labret]

The point is you would have said nothing if I would have said "whats a 14 year old Amish kid doing on a porn webmasters board".

You are a kneejerk reactionary and Jew is a buzzword that sets off most lefties.



When did I say or insinuate that support of Israel is only for Jews? I know of plenty of Christians who view this as the end times and supports Israel with a psychotic fervor.

If someone jumps on from Montana and starts bashing " those god damn Iranians", its probably safe to assume its a white guy.

Do you still not get it?

foe

I get it and I think your are entitled to your opinions, but I also think that you should not bash others peoples opinions, and state that the whole argument is false by stating something that is false yourself

Keev

shut up with this already both sides are guilty as hell..... neither wants to compromise

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SunTzu

Don't lump all of us into that hypocritical religion. Call me a jerk or an asshole, but never EVER call me a christian. HOLY SHIT!

quiet

jimmyf

Oh man now I'll be awake all day night.

wondering what I am... Shit..

The only way to defeat someone in a war. Is to kick the living shit out of'em....

Guess who's capable of doing that.

The bottom line the Rag Heads ARE not going to win.
All a few of them are doing is making life hell for the rest of'em.

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CDSmith

Is "Christianity" an official religion? I know it is a belief, but a religion? Catholic is a religion, of which it's members consider themselves to be "Christians". Protestant is a religion, ditto for all the factions of it like "united protestant", "anglican" etc etc.

To describe oneself as Christian only describes one's belief system, not their religion. And one can certainly be a christian and find ways of making money from the adult industry and still be a Christian, if one simply avoids the "big 3" ultra-judgmental (accent on mental) overly-controlling religions and adheres to one's own beliefs.

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quiet

i'm not all that up and up on religion, but i think christianity is a form of religion. basically, you believe that christ was the physical manisfestation of god. or some shit.

anyone here ever heard of Soren Kierkegaard? he was a christian, and also one of the first modern-day existentialists.

deeply religious, and definitely not a catholic/protestant/etc. the idea of church, to him, was bullshit. same with rules and regulations (mostly contrived by the church) - rules and regulations take you farther away from 'god'. it was all about having a 1-to-1 relationship with god, and making the 'leap of faith' to Him. while i don't buy his argument for god, he does have many good ideas - very influencial for existentialism and even (philisophical) post-modernism. read 'Fear and Trembling' for more....

Tipsy

I'll 3rd that. Fuck religion. Belief in self works far better if you're strong enough to manage it.

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jimmyf

Thanks Tipsy...
Now I'll sleep tonight... Should have been a no brainer..

Man I was worried..

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quiet

okay - have a good sleep then?

foe

My beliefs on religion are mixed as well, but this post isnt about religion, some people may try to turn it into one, but its not, its about Israels right of survival.

CDSmith

Is survival a "right"? ... or is it something you either do or you don't do? Survival is often times earned, but I have trouble thinking of it in terms of a right in this case.

If it is in fact a right, then the peoples of the territories surrounding Isreal might say "yes, they have a right to survive.... someplace else." If the Jews are going to survive where they are, they'll have to keep on earning that survival. Their opponents aren't simply going to grant them some "right".

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gallerypost

Ok, so you aren't a nazi but you wish all jews to be dead... so how should we call you ?

mule

Just do a search for posts by bambili, and you'll see why people are allways lighting candles in Israel-related posts

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[Labret]

If you can find and quote me saying I want all jews dead, I will fly to Israel at first chance and convert to Hassidic Judaism.



You can call me Optimus Prime.

gallerypost

i got all the transformers episodes.... (divx) ... anyone intrested ?

drumsicle

The Romans.

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Another worthless post?

Pathfinder

The open letter has made some good points, but the letter is basically telling the Palestinians that if they don't stop the "Kamikazi" tactics they will be destroyed.

I am of the opinion that the world (inculding the USA) will not allow this to happen (not now, not ever) without severe repercussions for Israel, if indeed Israel did decide on a major military solution.