woj

100.....,,.

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Morgan

yooooooO!!!

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Pornwolf

Wow, this is th biggest real & relevant drama thread in a long time. Did P1mpdog really start this? LOL

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I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade...

Webair, bitches.

diesel

You blow the industry with 2 prechecked cross sales for years providing shitty content and same feeds everywhere, most of you shave your affiliates to cover your fucked up business and now when you start to get the shit back you complain .. STFU

bigdog

You do make some intresting points, but it wil be a cold day in hell before webmasters accept low PPS payouts

Theo

those that wait their next paycheck to buy food possible no, we do great business with a lot of the rest

bigdog

Come on not all of us are living check to check maybe only 90%

diesel

This day is around the corner.
Partnership programs tend to provide quality product and this type of business is much healthier for industry.
And why do you think they bitch paycom here?
Its getting hard to manage CB ratio vs shave vs low sales they get even thought using free memberships or trials.

Imagine how much potential customers our industry lost due to these triple charges. Its like buying TV in store and discover at home that you also bought a microwave with some fucking dinner table. I am sure you will buy in this shop again! LOL
Since lot of affiliates support this, of course its very attractive model of "business" and many copy it causing m/ore and more damage. But it looks like its going off soon. At least Paycom doesnt accept any new client with cross sales from what I heard.

Doctor Dre

Well considering gas is used in the making of everything we use (tractors and pesticids for food, plastics etc etc), everything is going up in price...

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will76

The drop of sales from "heating" issues should go away about the same time the "SUMMER slow down" starts, so wouldn't those two factors cross each other out and keep sales at a low point consistantly.

Also I thought the winter was better because more people are inside but how can it be better if they have to pay high heating bills?

I thought gas prices have been high for the last 3 years why would this be an issue now? I think actually right now they are still a little lower then when they were at an all time high 7 months ago.

The vast majority of people file before april 15th and i would say 9 out of 10 people get a refund check so how would this hurt things ?

If you guys believe that these issues affect your sales then you should also believe that since there are soo many of these factors out there you believe in that your sales would be low year round. there is ALWAYS something going on, if you only believe in these things when "your" sales are low then you are disproving your own theory.

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will76

Here is a little common sense way to figure out what is going on, and yes it is as simple as doing this.

First of all it has nothing to do with seasonal, weather, and political factors. Any given day just as many people are having a good day as bad, so that disproves that idea.

Narrow it down to issues related to the credit card and the credit card processor.

If other people using other processors or their own processors also see a sharp decline in sales right after these credit card changes went into affect (higher min payout, increased rates, etc.) If EVERYONE who uses a processor sees these effects then that is your problem. If some people using other processors do not see a decrease in sales then you can't blame it on new credit card policies, they would affect everyone.

The next thing to do would be to see if this is specific to paycom. If EVERYONE who uses paycom saw a sharp drop off recently and people using other processors are doing fine then you know your problem is paycom. If some people using paycom are doing fine then paycom is not your problem, if they had problems it would affect everyone. If this is the case you need to start looking harder on your end instead of pointing the finger at someone else.

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OldSchoolJim

This thread is getting better and better with all the different theories.....

How about we offer more free content...host it for free for all the affiliates...do all of your daily submits....give lifetime cookies so you users can join up again years later....tell them how to cancel as soon as they join for the $1.00 trial...give affiliates $10 for every cross sell....(maybe cookie those too) maybe do it with NO cross sells...NO EXIT CONSOLES...
maybe HAND deliver payouts....oh yeah..almost forgot PAY $40 per join for exclusive content...maybe $45 just so we can lose $$ on MORE joins per day........i just love to lose $$ it is why i am in biz.....

You fucking guys crack me up.....i have been in this game for 11 years and you can't even see the forest because of the trees.....

Paycom is definitely going through a transition....but if you are concerned about the overall health of the industry no need to look any farther than the mirror....

I would love to see a program that has a whopping $15 per join payout survive in this day and age....not happening.....

conversions have been steadily declining for years.....the whole PPS model was an education in free porn......an educated surfer can get his porn for $1.00 per week.....not $40 per month...when they join every friday and cancel before even SEEING the member area.....but you would just LOVE it to have that cookied $30 per join every time he does that...yes?
does not make for a very long healthy business now does it.....

wait..lets count SECOND page uniques....wait...JOIN page uniques...wait...QUALIFIED join page uniques....LOL

here is an idea...maybe affiliates who constantly bitch about every little thing can START YOUR OWN FUCKING PAYSITE....then see how much a join is worth to you....

Sorry for the sunday rant..and this has been said many times in the past...but no one ever seems to listen......

This paycom thing is eventually going to bite a lot of programs in the ass maybe this will be the final nail to actually get programs to wake the fuck up....they ARE having more issues than normal...everyone can see that...but is it really PAYCOM that is the problem?

Rebecca Love

I think you just summed it all up.

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Rui

Brilliant post, you said it all

mazdaman

yeh good post jim

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Major (Tom)

good one jim


duke

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GigoloMason

Not a single thing in this post is true lol

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diesel

My mirror shows me the clean and cristal business history. We have a business model based on the quality. We never shaved and always bring more value of the content then we charge for. We invest a lot of money and create quality product using latest technologies. We pay 50% recurring and manage to run business steadly with creating new project every month. We never had a problem to pay for any service we used and all our models and employers get money on time. And we never had any prechecked cross sale.
There are many programs with same business model as we follow and from some reason they do all make quality work and provide great product.Lot of programs running with CCbill do manage to run honest business and yet very very profitable and valued for clients leaving them happy and rebilling for long periods and not because they have forgot to cancel.

Now tell me something, why every time we talk about companies who pay 30-40 usd per signup using prechecked cross sales, we end up with shitty content, spam, shave, thousands of tours leading to one lossy member area and often not even able to pay for the service they order from other companies? And now also with 1:5000+ ratios selling trials.

Can you tell me,using your 11 years experience, why?

diesel

The reason I mention ccbill here only because they never allowed this "aggresive" billing...

xxxice

Cross sales checked or not are crap. If pps fine but for revshare that is bull.

RRRED

Diz is all fired up!

bigdog

You got to admit a lot of the big programs have quality sites these day compared to a couple years back

TCG and Adult.com have good sites with great content

Quick Buck

bigdog, you are right on. 4 years ago quality of content didn't matter at all, but many sizable PPS programs including ourselves have spend many hundreds of thousands of dollars in production building quality reality sites.

http://www.taxicams.com/01/

Tell me you've seen a harder working marketing director in your life... he actually DROVE THE CAB in 120 degree weather when the AC was broken... all in the name of quality content!

Viva Le QuickBuck!

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diesel

Yeah some of them invest more in product and its great.
But they are just few ..

diesel

RRRED you are working now in awesome company. The great example of what I am talking about!

Quick Buck

not to toot my own horn but this is a great friggin trailer..

super awesome.. props to datatanks as well as the friends of ours who made some cameo appearances

Hun Galleries to Taxicams routinely bring in 100+ joins a day.

http://www.taxicams.com/01/4.php?nats=


Ok i'll stop spamming now. back to the discussion.

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OldSchoolJim

If you read my post carefully you would see i said PPS model...not revshare model....we are making great strides at Epiccash to move towards quality content and customer support second to none....

This post was simply more pointed to affiliates constantly crying about conversion ratios from one day to the next...like they are the know it alls of the industry....fact of the matter is...if they knew it all then they would be in biz for themselves.....simple as that...i NEVER knocked your program OR your model...simply pointed out the OVERALL industry model...there are exceptions to every rule...

To have a PPS model be successful today you have to compete with the bottom line for the affiliate...income per sale ...that is the comparison..and it is really the only one most PPS affiliates care about.....but when they think they can get $35 per join and that PPS companies can do this without the help of cross sales and upsells and exits...they are kidding themselves....simple as that....you know as well as i do the revshare model is simply harder to sell....and only the really serious affiliates even take the time to investigate them....

diesel

Usually you can cut by 3 the numbers posted here but in your case I would
cut it by 9 or 12 Nothing personal everybody does it
I didnt find any gallery of this site on thehun in last 4 days routinely failed spam

But why wont you just switch your cross sale off and try revshare?
From my experience it pays off very well if the content is flowing steadly and service is good.

Anyway, everyone is welcome to do as they want to ... It was just my humble opinion on your reaction of whats going on with paycom ... I admire those who work harder and dislike those who is running for a quick and lazy buck ..
After all most of us make enought money for a great living, so why wont we just build long term business with our clients?

diesel

I agree that PPS is more popular of course it pays now and full .. but for that price you have to cheat on your clients, save on the content and still probably shave..

There are plenty of really wealthy revshare programs around.

Quick Buck

diesel, you're proving to be a fairly pompous know it all. i never said that taxicams had been on thehun in the past 4 days.

given that you don't run a pay per signup program, why do you assume to know how it works?

History in this business has time and time and time again shown that people who only do revshare (with a very few exceptions) are clueless. I'm not getting the feeling that you are an exception.

*you* would have to shave to pay per signup
*you* would have to cheat to pay per signup
*you* would have to skimp on content.

many very successful PPS programs however have great content, don't cheat anybody and pay for every join that comes through the system.

why am I even bothering to argue about the viability of PPS with somebody who uses the ccbill affiliate system. nothing against ccbill but their affiliate system is for amateurs.

just my humble opinion of course... kinda like yours is humble.

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Quick Buck

hey diesel..

you might want to spend more time working on your sites and less time telling other's how to run their business.

half the images on your tours are broken...

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Quick Buck

and half the links on your affiliate page don't function.

jesus man, you're an embarassment to program owners everywhere.

that line "fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life man" seems appropriately for some reason.

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aico

God damn, it's almost like i heard angels singing...

Quick Buck

you don't say?

genius i tell you. pure genius.

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pussyluver

ok

Tempest

ya know... Why is it that every time something like this comes up, programs blame the affiliates for all the stuff they offer... You offer it because you want more affiliates... Stop offering it if it's such a drain on your bottom line... I thought that a healthy program didn't actually need affiliates in the first place...

more free content - well of course.. doesn't do any of us any good if we buy cheap crap content to try and sell your high end site.. or make the surfer think the content we're showing them is in the site when it's not.. just creates more cancels for you. So it makes good business sense for you to provide that if you can. But why not get smarter about it.. offer only a portion of the full set... only offer some content to every affiliate and more to the ones that prove they can generate sales.. or team up with the content producers to sell portions of that content specifically for gallery building at a reduced rate...

host it for free for all the affiliates - I've never wanted that and I've never used it.. so stop offering it and make those guys sending 1 sale a week go back to McDs.

give lifetime cookies so you users can join up again years later... - never asked for that.. with a PPS model, if I get paid once I'm more than happy.

Tell them how to cancel as soon as they join for the $1.00 trial... - pretty shitty thing to do, not sure why anyone would do that.

give affiliates $10 for every cross sell....(maybe cookie those too) - Why? affiliates don't expect that in a PPS model.

NO EXIT CONSOLES... - you already have reduced payouts on those. I would assume you based that off of any lost money from not having them. If programs had limited their consoles to 1 or 2, I think the "request" for no consoles wouldn't have ever become an issue. But that all happened in the ealier money grab phase and we're all paying for it now... I mix up no-console with console.. and if a program has a "surfer friendly" mode where only 1 console pops, I often use that as well. I try and work with my sponsors so we all make money.

maybe HAND deliver payouts... - that's just nuts.. but again.. you all started offering epassporte etc. so you could attract more affiliates.. you could just keep cutting cheques and make em wait.. I still just get cheques and sometimes wire transfers.

almost forgot PAY $40 per join for exclusive content... - if you can afford to great... but if sites like bbo, nd and topbucks can pay 30/35, why can't you?

conversions have been steadily declining for years.. - of course they have.. because we all keep offering them more and more free stuff to try and entice them to buy.. we're all shooting ourselves in the foot...

an educated surfer can get his porn for $1.00 per week.....not $40 per month...when they join every friday and cancel before even SEEING the member area..... - huh? if they're not getting to the members area then how are they seeing anything?

but you would just LOVE it to have that cookied $30 per join every time he does that...yes? - no.. that would just be insane.

here is an idea...maybe affiliates who constantly bitch about every little thing can START YOUR OWN FUCKING PAYSITE....then see how much a join is worth to you.... - I've noticed that quite a few have... some of us don't want the hassle of affiliates and members etc.. LOL


Nice rant though.. bet that felt good to let out... ;)

RawAlex

I think Ibill is looking for new clients for whatever they are going to be called....

Alex

bigdog

It is very possible that taxicams does close to those numbers on thehun or did those in the past.

David - PG

Hmmmm, sounds interesting

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OldSchoolJim

Because they get emails from most processors with links to cancel....and most konw to do that before even visiting the site so as not to forget and get rebilled...

i won't even go into an explanation on this......ever hear the phrase "catch 22?"

Tempest

ahhhhh.. so basically they cancel right away and thus never rebill and then go off and enjoy the porn.. yeah.. I can see that as a problem.... But I assumed most PPS programs had been moving to a limited trial... topbucks does it.. sunnydollars does it.. in fact I think sunnydollars is the best of the two.. nice good aggressive "upgrade" now prompts and the way they have dates on the content to let the sufer know they upgrade all the time (when they probably don't).. awesome stuff. I really don't see how any PPS program can survive without doing that unless maybe they're 100% exclusive content.

Yep.. I hear ya.

XPays

i wouldn't be surprised if there was a technical problem upstream from paycom or a tech prob in general. their network is so huge it might be difficult at times to isolate things.

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RRRED

I agree That is why I held out and starved for 3 months this winter. Very worth it. When I spout about the Karups sites and how they do their business, it's because I believe in it, not because someone is telling me to or in the name of cheap commissions.

And I have seen firsthand how your business is run and no one can say you don't know what you're doing.

There are good arguements on both sides though. But the bottom line is that things are changing, competition is rising, and who's going to be here till the bitter end? I know we will

diesel

WTF are you talking about

diesel

Hehe .. I wish win for everyone

diesel

Where is the help of revshare brothers.. I cant held this PPS pressure alone

As I said you man, everybody choose the way he wants to go. PPS makes lot of money its fact. I just dont like the way and enjoy my humble own.

(where you saw the broken images??? )

diesel

Ok it was a bad joke from me and I take my words back

Quick Buck

maybe all the PPS programs should start copying mainstream and requiring an invoice and paying on net 60 terms

No check? Sorry, we havent received your invoice.
Sent an invoice? Sorry, we're aren't paying out for February yet.

Hehe, adult has it SO GOOD it's scary.

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Quick Buck

diesel.. "i fuck them" has 90% broken images on the tour.

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diesel

Thank you, well its not half of sites of course and our guy has just uploaded wrong template for it
Thank you anyway..