Am I raising a genius or Serial Killer?

[RayVega]

OK, I know I may draw some fire on this one. But fuck it.

My 4yr old son just finished "True Crimes streets of LA" for Playstation. Took him two weeks.

Now I know what you are thinking, and no he doesn't sit in front of video games all day long! Just a few hours a week. I'm not using the Playstation to babysit my kids...

And I know it's rated for violent content, and there's shooting people and that sort of stuff, but I only allowed him to play it under the strict guideline that he follow the rules of probable cause and only shoot at an armed criminal posing a deadly threat while a) he has no ability to flee without the assailant endangering the public, and b) engaging in gun battle will not endanger bystanders not posing deadly threat.

He finished the game with a perfect positive "good cop" rating. Although he did get killed in the ending scene...but hey, he's four right?

Am I desensitizing him to violence, or teaching him the valuable skill of being able to make a life or death decision in a split second while developing higher intelligence neuron pathways and decision making skills in this very critical time in his development?

Let's remember that he is four, but I believe he fully understands the rules of engagement. I know he doesn't understand what death really is, but he is around guns a lot, he sees mine and can hold them anytime he wants (provided they are properly cleared and he is supervised) and he does respect the danger they pose, and knows about safe handling, checking for cleared chambering and the old "one in the chamber" mistake most people make when unloading. Both him and my eight year old daughter are drilled on safety rules everytime they ask to see them (which is not that often since they are not a novelty around the household).

Valuable life lessons, or too much reality for a four year old?
Thoughts?

[After Shock Media]

Let me know when he pops a cap in your butt while your sleeping

[Manowar]

i dont think introducing a 4 year old to the concept of shooting people and crime (even solving) is a good idea


make him watch barney or something

[Theo]

hook him to some 2pac like i do

[Sly]

Um. I think thats a lot for a 4 year old. Kids should be kids, doing happy "fun" games. He'll have plenty of time to kill bad guys when he gets older.

Just my opinion, its kind of a shame watching kids grow up so fast these days, totally skipping their innocence chapter of life.

[Mike Okitch]

Not to piss on your parade and not to debate your parenting skills which I'm sure are excellent but I think that there is a time and age for everything. That video game is far too mature for a 4 year old.

[sonofsam]

i think you should give him an uzi and drop him off in compton, and see if he makes the crime statistics lower or not....

then and only then, you will be able to see if it had a possitive impact on him or not.

btw, i know a guy that can make small kevlar vests if you need one, hit me up

[After Shock Media]

On the flip side I did grow up playing cops and robbers or cowboys and indians or other varients. Cap guns etc, and well I only turned out to be a pervert so I guess it is ok.

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by Manowar

i dont think introducing a 4 year old to the concept of shooting people and crime (even solving) is a good idea


make him watch barney or something

if there are episodes of barney smackin hoes and rolling on 24 inch spinners, then i agree, make him watch barney

[Theo]

When I was 6 I killed my grandfather with my father's gun by accident and I grew up fine. I don't believe these things really influence you.

[Sly]

I also think its important for kids that are around guns at all to understand how they work and understand what kind of real power they can yield. But as you mentioned, your son doesn't quite understand the concept of death... how can he understand the power that a gun can unleash?

He uses guns on a game and kills people, no consequences and he sees absolutely nothing changing in his life. Why would he think a real gun is any different?

[FuqALot]

Originally Posted by RayVega

Let's remember that he is four, but I believe he fully understands the rules of engagement. I know he doesn't understand what death really is, but he is around guns a lot, he sees mine and can hold them anytime he wants.

[Theo]

still remember me telling

"grandpa had to go"

[BlackCrayon]

if you see him impersonating stuff from the game i'd be worried.

[Libertine]

Worst possible thing you can do. Teaching a kid about killing before he properly understands the meaning and impact of death will distort his views on the value of life.

For fuck's sake man, the game has a "Mature" rating - it's meant for ages 17 and over. Your kid is 4. Are you planning to give your kid a subscription to bangbus.com when he turns 6?

[spacedog]

I think 4 is too young. He should be playing disney & little kids games. Better yet, a good book would teach him more. Great that he has skills to play the games & win, etc, but the violence & subject matter may be a bit much for 4.

It is the earlier years that are formative in developing social skills & personality, be careful. But it is just a game & most kids understand this fully, but there are a few who grow up with problems, thankfully just a few.

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by Sly

I also think its important for kids that are around guns at all to understand how they work and understand what kind of real power they can yield. But as you mentioned, your son doesn't quite understand the concept of death... how can he understand the power that a gun can unleash?

He uses guns on a game and kills people, no consequences and he sees absolutely nothing changing in his life. Why would he think a real gun is any different?

Good point, here's my spin. I do not think he can understand the concept of death, but he does understand that they (the criminals) cannot see their families again, and he does understand that because he asks me about it, and will do just about anything to avoid gunfire.

As far as the power of a gun, he has seen them shot, seen what damage they do and can understand that they will do that same damage to any person in front of them. Kids who see what fire does are not looking to stick their hand in front of a flamethrower. Also, he's had injuries and knows how much it hurts when blood comes out, he can clearly see that a gun will easily make lots of blood come out, and therefore is terrified of the repricussions of someone being shot.

I think exposure to guns is no different than exposure to people smoking cigarrettes, except it is alot clearer that a gun can hurt you than cigarettes. And a lot more people die from smoking.

Make sense? Keep in mind that if his comprehension of the impact of actions wasn't there, i'd not let him near it.

[Theo]

snoop songs

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by punkworld

Worst possible thing you can do. Teaching a kid about killing before he properly understands the meaning and impact of death will distort his views on the value of life.

For fuck's sake man, the game has a "Mature" rating - it's meant for ages 17 and over. Your kid is 4. Are you planning to give your kid a subscription to bangbus.com when he turns 6?

I respect your point, but here's my take on what you said. He's exposed to voilence regardless, you can't control all input in today's media, nor would i want to shelter him that much. He run's around with a makshift gun playing cops and robbers anyway, why not allow him to act out while imposing the rules of life instead of allowing that same acting out with no knowledge of rules or reprecussions?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by punkworld

Worst possible thing you can do. Teaching a kid about killing before he properly understands the meaning and impact of death will distort his views on the value of life.

For fuck's sake man, the game has a "Mature" rating - it's meant for ages 17 and over. Your kid is 4. Are you planning to give your kid a subscription to bangbus.com when he turns 6?

Last Christmas I saw my 9 year old brother playing GTA. He was halfway through the game. I don't think he understood everything, but my thought was "WTF!?" I think at 9 and MAYBE even 8 the killing part may be "ok" so long as the kid isn't a nut job already, but other aspects of GTA I don't think are real appropriate for a kid that young. Shit I remember when I was 14 my mom wouldn't buy me a Master P album because it had the advisory label.

Kids should stick with sports games, learning games, and other "fun" games. There's enough killing and destruction in this world to give them just a few years without it.

[pornguy]

Yep. Make him watch barney, and teach him that children dance and sing with Dinos. Thats a good thing.

How about the fact that if Dino lived around people they would fucking eat them. Barney dont teach that does he.

Do what you think is right. And as for the game. My brother did not give his son play guns because they did not want that in his life. He came home from school, pointing his fingers in the shape of a gun shooting everything and everyone.

At least you are controling the situation.

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by Sly

Last Christmas I saw my 9 year old brother playing GTA. He was halfway through the game. I don't think he understood everything, but my thought was "WTF!?" I think at 9 and MAYBE even 8 the killing part may be "ok" so long as the kid isn't a nut job already, but other aspects of GTA I don't think are real appropriate for a kid that young. Shit I remember when I was 14 my mom wouldn't buy me a Master P album because it had the advisory label.

Kids should stick with sports games, learning games, and other "fun" games. There's enough killing and destruction in this world to give them just a few years without it.

I have all the GTA's. he is not allowed to play them. They do not enforce use of force controls and inspire criminal behavior.

[Theo]

who's this barney you guys keep saying? any thug tv star?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by RayVega

Good point, here's my spin. I do not think he can understand the concept of death, but he does understand that they (the criminals) cannot see their families again, and he does understand that because he asks me about it, and will do just about anything to avoid gunfire.

As far as the power of a gun, he has seen them shot, seen what damage they do and can understand that they will do that same damage to any person in front of them. Kids who see what fire does are not looking to stick their hand in front of a flamethrower. Also, he's had injuries and knows how much it hurts when blood comes out, he can clearly see that a gun will easily make lots of blood come out, and therefore is terrified of the repricussions of someone being shot.

I think exposure to guns is no different than exposure to people smoking cigarrettes, except it is alot clearer that a gun can hurt you than cigarettes. And a lot more people die from smoking.

Make sense? Keep in mind that if his comprehension of the impact of actions wasn't there, i'd not let him near it.

Yeh, it makes sense, for an older kid.

Every parent thinks their kid is a genius. I certainly wouldn't want to take that feeling away from any parent, they should feel like their kid is the best thing in the world. But parents also need to realize that even though they think their kid is a genius, he/she most likely isn't and the reality of how things really are is much different from the parents perception.

You asked for opinions. You're getting them, but you're rationalizing the decisions you have already made. I don't think you would have asked others opinions if you didn't already have your doubts. I really don't see any real reason a 4 year old needs to play such violent games, there are plenty of others to choose from.

Why are you so hellbent on him playing these games?

[RayVega]

Three points here:
#1, I expected to get a negative response in this thread. i don't really give a shit, i think i am doing the right thing, for this child. For another, I might not.

#2, Kids are too fucking sheltered in this world, we don't sing and dance with goddamn balloons and big gay dinosaurs. that's precisely why kids are so fucked up these days, they think nothing can happen to them because they are sheltered.

#3, I'm impressed that he finished the game with less playing time than I...lol

[candyflip]

Get him the new NYC version. Just came out this week!

[After Shock Media]

Don't worry man, if your trying to go the serial killer route you need to enforce some serious mental issues into his psyche.
Find a game with serious Oedipus issues and where you can set fires and torture small animals, then you may get the serial killer gene going.

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by pornguy

Yep. Make him watch barney, and teach him that children dance and sing with Dinos. Thats a good thing.

How about the fact that if Dino lived around people they would fucking eat them. Barney dont teach that does he.

For the record, i have been friends with many dinosaurs, and none of them have tried to eat me or inflict any harm

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by RayVega

#2, Kids are too fucking sheltered in this world, we don't sing and dance with goddamn balloons and big gay dinosaurs.

Shit we do not? (casually goes and hides the child photo album).

[bringer]

Originally Posted by Manowar

make him watch barney or something

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

hook him to some 2pac like i do

best of both worlds
http://www.starterupsteve.com/video/barney2pac.html

[Sly]

Originally Posted by RayVega

Three points here:
#1, I expected to get a negative response in this thread. i don't really give a shit, i think i am doing the right thing, for this child. For another, I might not.

#2, Kids are too fucking sheltered in this world, we don't sing and dance with goddamn balloons and big gay dinosaurs. that's precisely why kids are so fucked up these days, they think nothing can happen to them because they are sheltered.

#3, I'm impressed that he finished the game with less playing time than I...lol

Either way, I'm sure your kid will be fine.

You need to get him playing Halo, maybe he'll make you some money, haha.

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by RayVega

#2 we don't sing and dance with goddamn balloons and big gay dinosaurs.

Speak for yourself !

[sonofsam]

Originally Posted by bringer

best of both worlds
http://www.starterupsteve.com/video/barney2pac.html

how perfect for this situation

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by Sly

Yeh, it makes sense, for an older kid.

Every parent thinks their kid is a genius. I certainly wouldn't want to take that feeling away from any parent, they should feel like their kid is the best thing in the world. But parents also need to realize that even though they think their kid is a genius, he/she most likely isn't and the reality of how things really are is much different from the parents perception.

You asked for opinions. You're getting them, but you're rationalizing the decisions you have already made. I don't think you would have asked others opinions if you didn't already have your doubts. I really don't see any real reason a 4 year old needs to play such violent games, there are plenty of others to choose from.

Why are you so hellbent on him playing these games?

Well, I do respect the opinion. but I really didn't have my doubts...just looking to bring some intellectual discussion to the board. Bored is all.

I also made the decision to allow him because I saw him acting out and saw it as a tool to enforce controls. I'm not hellbent on anything. He wants to "shoot badguys". he's goign to do it anyway, might as well be in a controlled environment.

He plays a host of games geared towards children as well, and I think that they are great. i think computers help kids to develop high IQ's and unbelievable skills that we did not have the advantage of having. And, i think he is no genius by far, there's no way to know a childs intelligence level at this point. But given the right tools at a point when the brain is developing may be a very valuable tool.

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by sonofsam

Speak for yourself !

lol, ok ok, I admit it too.

[After Shock Media]

I know when I was 5 my great grandfather who was a carpenter had made a automatic wood rubber band gun. He gave it to me with three stipulations attached for me to have it.

1. I must not ever shoot him.
2. I must be careful when loading it or it could put my eye out.
3. I must shoot grandma in the butt after dinner.


Only consequence was that I was not old enough to realise stipulation 3 would result in grandma taking away my cool new toy.

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I know when I was 5 my great grandfather who was a carpenter had made a automatic wood rubber band gun. He gave it to me with three stipulations attached for me to have it.

1. I must not ever shoot him.
2. I must be careful when loading it or it could put my eye out.
3. I must shoot grandma in the butt after dinner.


Only consequence was that I was not old enough to realise stipulation 3 would result in grandma taking away my cool new toy.

[sonofsam]

this quote seems appropriate


"if video games affected children, we'd all be running around in dark rooms listening to repetitive music, munching on pills"

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I know when I was 5 my great grandfather who was a carpenter had made a automatic wood rubber band gun.

Come to think of it, I think my father set me loose with a red rider with no talkinf to at all.

but then again, i grew up to be a nut job.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by RayVega

Come to think of it, I think my father set me loose with a red rider with no talkinf to at all.

but then again, i grew up to be a nut job.

Oh I feel ya. My parents where they type that if they saw you approaching a electrical outlet with a fork they would tell people let him do it, he will learn to never do that again.

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by RayVega

I respect your point, but here's my take on what you said. He's exposed to voilence regardless, you can't control all input in today's media, nor would i want to shelter him that much. He run's around with a makshift gun playing cops and robbers anyway, why not allow him to act out while imposing the rules of life instead of allowing that same acting out with no knowledge of rules or reprecussions?

At 4, he shouldn't be exposed to violence regardless. At 4, he is supposed to be sheltered - by you. That's your job as a parent, to shelter and protect a kid while it's needed, so he can learn to deal with reality at his own pace.

Sure, you can't completely control the things a kid sees (although you should be able to do that for the most part, especially at 4 years old), but you shouldn't throw everything at the kid all at once yourself.

Personally, I think the main reason that you are going against what EVERYONE here says and what EVERY educational expert says is mainly that you like the idea of you son becoming some tough guy one day.

You disguise it as preparing him for the "rules of life", but seriously, if you do a good job at raising him he will never be in any position that requires him to know this stuff. He will instead go to school, maybe get into a few fights, go to high school, maybe get into a few more fights and maybe experiment a little with drinking, go to college, get drunk and get laid, become a doctor or a lawyer and never have to use these "skills" in his entire life.

You are not preparing him for "the rules of life", you are preparing him for "the rules of thug life". Is that really what you want?

[Libertine]

Originally Posted by RayVega

#2, Kids are too fucking sheltered in this world, we don't sing and dance with goddamn balloons and big gay dinosaurs. that's precisely why kids are so fucked up these days, they think nothing can happen to them because they are sheltered.

Typically, it's not the "sheltered" kids who grow up to be violent criminals. It's the kids who grow up surrounded by things that teach them about crime, violence, drugs, etc.

Besides, maybe we don't sing and dance with balloons and dinosaurs, but we sure as hell don't drive around all day shooting at people either. I know your program is called "mobbucks", but seriously, for normal people that is stuff that mostly happens in movies.

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by punkworld

At 4, he shouldn't be exposed to violence regardless. At 4, he is supposed to be sheltered - by you. That's your job as a parent, to shelter and protect a kid while it's needed, so he can learn to deal with reality at his own pace.

Sure, you can't completely control the things a kid sees (although you should be able to do that for the most part, especially at 4 years old), but you shouldn't throw everything at the kid all at once yourself.

Personally, I think the main reason that you are going against what EVERYONE here says and what EVERY educational expert says is mainly that you like the idea of you son becoming some tough guy one day.

You disguise it as preparing him for the "rules of life", but seriously, if you do a good job at raising him he will never be in any position that requires him to know this stuff. He will instead go to school, maybe get into a few fights, go to high school, maybe get into a few more fights and maybe experiment a little with drinking, go to college, get drunk and get laid, become a doctor or a lawyer and never have to use these "skills" in his entire life.

You are not preparing him for "the rules of life", you are preparing him for "the rules of thug life". Is that really what you want?

respectfully disagree, here's why.

First off, it's not his nature to be violent. He wouldn't hurt a fly. if it was I would surly throttle down the input.

Secondly, I allow him to explore life on his terms provided I feel he can handle it. Nothing is thrown at him, it is trickled to him as he takes it, or in some cases begs for it.

Thirdly, I go against what all these so called educational experts say because they (I am generalizing) are fucking uptight assholes and religious fanatics who think by controlling what you are exposed to, they can control your thought, so they can control your actions and make the world easier for their "class" to take for themselves. fuck them and their trite bullshit. If we listened to them all this time, we'd be a bunch of controlled sheep.

being in this business is a statment about all of our thought process...we are not going to follow what the moral majority say's or thinks, fuck them! we are free, and will fight to the death to keep our thoughts that way.

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by punkworld

Typically, it's not the "sheltered" kids who grow up to be violent criminals. It's the kids who grow up surrounded by things that teach them about crime, violence, drugs, etc.

Besides, maybe we don't sing and dance with balloons and dinosaurs, but we sure as hell don't drive around all day shooting at people either. I know your program is called "mobbucks", but seriously, for normal people that is stuff that mostly happens in movies.

Not so, check your stats. Typically it is two types of kids that become violent criminals, those with no supervision as They are exposed to things with no controls or teachings. And kids with very strict supervision since they rebel against senseless authority.

[Pornwolf]

All the bullshit aside, I'm truly impressed. You got a genius on your hands Ray. Be proud of that.

And, coming from the MOBBUCKS I would expect nothing less than a genius kid that could finish a game called True Crime. LOL

All is as it should be. ;)

[Drake]

I think that exposing the 4 year old to violence is a bit premature. There will definitely come a time for him to be less sheltered but at 4, he's not old enough. Learning to pop caps in peoples' asses at 4 really isn't necessary and it's unlikely that a 4 year old can understand the ramifications of it.

When you're 4 years old you're still learning about how to tie your shoes, read, write, spell, socialize, the difference between right and wrong, and the wonders of the natural world.

[After Shock Media]

On a side note speaking of games, would you all want one of those magic style card games based on mobsters? Got one gathering dust that is unopened.

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

All the bullshit aside, I'm truly impressed. You got a genius on your hands Ray. Be proud of that.

And, coming from the MOBBUCKS I would expect nothing less than a genius kid that could finish a game called True Crime. LOL

All is as it should be. ;)

Thanks for the kind words. The genius thing remains to be seen in time, but he's a good kid, and ong as he grows up happy, that's all I care about...That's all I push him to be, is happy with himself, nothing more.

Thanks man.

[jonesy]

ray vega - brilliant mad view thread architect

[Godsmack]

Originally Posted by RayVega

Good point, here's my spin. I do not think he can understand the concept of death, but he does understand that they (the criminals) cannot see their families again, and he does understand that because he asks me about it, and will do just about anything to avoid gunfire.

As far as the power of a gun, he has seen them shot, seen what damage they do and can understand that they will do that same damage to any person in front of them. Kids who see what fire does are not looking to stick their hand in front of a flamethrower. Also, he's had injuries and knows how much it hurts when blood comes out, he can clearly see that a gun will easily make lots of blood come out, and therefore is terrified of the repricussions of someone being shot.

I think exposure to guns is no different than exposure to people smoking cigarrettes, except it is alot clearer that a gun can hurt you than cigarettes. And a lot more people die from smoking.

Make sense? Keep in mind that if his comprehension of the impact of actions wasn't there, i'd not let him near it.

You are joking :-) right? or....