What do you know about NGSCB (Palladium)? - GoFuckYourself.com

Libertine · 12-19-2003, 06:33 PM

Some of you may already have heard about it. "Trusted Computing". Microsoft, Intel, IBM, HP and AMD have formed an alliance to create/promote a new standard for a more secure digital environment.
What it essentially holds is that it will become almost impossible to run unlicensed software, that it will become very easy to create content with a limited functionality (e.g. vids that play for 5 times then auto-destruct), that spam will become a lot easier to block (at least, that's what m$ says), and a whole bunch of other stuff.

On the flipside, it will form a huge problem for the open source community and it will give these companies a LOT of control over your PC - and with them governmental organizations.

Now, please note that this isn't just a vague future prediction. They're working on it right now. It's in the planning that a large part of the functionality will be implemented in the next version of Windows, Longhorn.

So what are your opinions on this?
It will make it a lot easier to protect your copyrights, and will provide easier and more secure methods of payment for the consumer. On the other hand, your digital freedom will be greatly diminished.

For more info, look here:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

(and for those of you that don't get it yet: this is potentially a LOT bigger than Acacia)

Libertine · 12-19-2003, 06:41 PM

Ofcourse, this is going to be one of those no reply-posts. And in two years, all of you will come crying to GFY because you had no idea of the significance of the changes.

Amputate Your Head · 12-19-2003, 06:49 PM

hmmm, well... I can see the pros as well as the cons to this. I understand the need to gain some control over this shit, but at the same time, I DO NOT like the idea of some asshole looking at my fucking documents and email and bank records and shit. And because of that, the cons outweigh the pros. That shit needs to go down in flames.

I won't be allowin' nunna that bullshit ta be goin' on here. I'll go back to balancing bank accounts on paper before I'll hand over the keys to some twit in an MS cubicle.

Libertine · 12-19-2003, 06:53 PM

Chances of it going down in flames are slim to non-existent, simply because there aren't any really big companies trying to fight it. The open source community doesn't like it, but they aren't exactly the most organized group in the world.

Ofcourse, one thing's a fact: the people in the porn industry who anticipate on this and manage to integrate it in their business very quickly will profit immensely.

lEricPl · 12-19-2003, 07:52 PM

Time for the foil hats.

Libertine · 12-19-2003, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lEricPl
Time for the foil hats.

Microsoft has already mentioned this itself in quite a few press releases. Numerous reputable news sources have written about it. Please, do explain what this has to do with conspiracy theories.

The mere fact that you defend everything microsoft does not mean that this is not happening.

Aside from that, where did I say this is some sort of devious plan? It brings loads of great opportunities for people who deliver content, and will most likely make it a lot easier to sell stuff online.

wimpy · 12-20-2003, 08:55 AM

It is necessary. People are far too stupid to manage their own computer security, and even if they can, it's a huge waste of time and effort. Corporations will jump at this as a way to reduce the work load of their IT staff. Individuals will like it because it manages their security, and with all the fucking scumware out there they won't bitch as long as it gets rid of the problem.

Still, whatever it is, it will be hacked. And when it is, with all the power it has, it will be an event, that's for sure.

iwantchixx · 12-20-2003, 09:06 AM

One major pissoff about all of this is the following.

1) First generation Palidium chips will comunicate with every piece of hardware out there but the second generation will ONLY communicate with Palidium based machines. How does this affect us? Well, once all dns, ISP, webservers, ftp servers, mail servers etc etc upgrade in a few years time they will all be palidium based by then and your non palidium based machine will NOT be able to work online at all. Thus, yoru system you just forked 3 grand into will be a doorstop in a few years time. Sad to think of all those millions of PC"s that will be thrown away and causing everyone to buy new pc's Nice plan they have there.

2) It can and most likely will be done so that the document you created with office 2013 will no longer load once office 2014 is released and you will be forced to upgrade the software in order to read it.

3) You want to create an application to check your stats for you on a daily basis. Oops. It won;t run! Now you have to send it to MS, pay an insane fee, and they may nto even validate it.

4) Free software may be a thing of the past. Apache will have to be verified, at a cost to the developpers. That cost will be forwarded to the user. Same goes for anythign free.

5) I have been talking with a buddy who has tight ties with MS and the outlook is not good for home users. There is the ability to charge you based on PER USAGE of each MS app. Load notepad? That'll cost you 5 cents. Load internet explorer? That'll be another 5 cents. This is not hawgwash. This is reality folks, The ability is there and the systems are already being developped to achieve this and charge it to your credit card. Palidium makes this possible since it has to authorize each file each time it is laoded and it is verified through MS servers.

6) No internet connection? Your pc won't boot. Internet connection drops? You just lost all your work.

7) The internet will no longer be what it was designed for. it was designed for teh free flow of information. With Palidium it wil be a pay-as-you-go model.

Bottom line, this internet/pc dooms day scenerio is a reality. Every piece of code wil NEED to be validated and payed for.

Libertine · 12-20-2003, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iwantchixx

Bottom line, this internet/pc dooms day scenerio is a reality. Every piece of code wil NEED to be validated and payed for.

But that is exactly what can turn out really well for some of us. People actually having to pay for porn...

But it's really no use talking about it. Most of the people here just don't care enough to spend the few minutes it costs to read. They don't seem to grasp the fact that it will drive some of them out of business and will make others rich beyond their wildest dreams.

stocktrader23 · 12-20-2003, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

But that is exactly what can turn out really well for some of us. People actually having to pay for porn...

But it's really no use talking about it. Most of the people here just don't care enough to spend the few minutes it costs to read. They don't seem to grasp the fact that it will drive some of them out of business and will make others rich beyond their wildest dreams.

I'm reading, I'm reading!

stocktrader23 · 12-20-2003, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23

I'm reading, I'm reading!

I'm still reading.

Bump for everyone that isn't a clueless fucktard without a care in the world about what happens online.

iwantchixx · 12-20-2003, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

But that is exactly what can turn out really well for some of us. People actually having to pay for porn...

But it's really no use talking about it. Most of the people here just don't care enough to spend the few minutes it costs to read. They don't seem to grasp the fact that it will drive some of them out of business and will make others rich beyond their wildest dreams.

This will help stop the whole kazaa free porn videos scenario for sure as well as piracy in general. It may be good for companies to protect their media but it is also horrible for the general internet and computer user. There will be no such thing as privacy online. There will be no such thing as only paying for an operating system and set of applications once. Computer use will decline, web surfing will decline. One good part of that is there will only be credit card weilding surfers online who can actualy afford to pay for porn since they are able to pay for their software over and over again.

The cost of doing business will definately hit a new level. All the applications we take for granted in our every day affairs such as icq, notepad, web browsers, and software to run our webservers will start costing us money. Scripts we take for granted will cost an arm and a leg. thumb, trades, submission scripts etc etc. Those with no bankroll to fall back on will definately run away with their tail between their legs.

One awesomely positive thing from all of this would be that no more worries about horrible hardware drivers. If all code has to be meticulously verified all hardware should function properly. But at a cost to us all.

I can handle the palidium thing if it weren't for teh lack of privacy and this impending pay-as-you-go scenario, which WILL happen. MS would be stupid not to. There is way too much money to be made.

iwantchixx · 12-20-2003, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stocktrader23

I'm still reading.

Bump for everyone that isn't a clueless fucktard without a care in the world about what happens online.

I have been following this Palidium thing since it was first concieved. I have made numerous posts about it on GFY since I joined. People just don't understand how it will affect them. The only way to survive this is to prepare for it. Once Longhorn comes out that's when this shit will start.

For those that actualy care and understand what's about to happen go upgrade your pc's the second the first generation chips are released. This will ensure you are ready to go full palidium once the second generation will come out. The first generation will be switchable between palidium and normal modes. So you can surf normaly and use your computer normaly until it is absolutely necesary to go full palidium.

Some people say to just get the fastest non palidium based system before it happens. But your better off getting the first generation chips so you don't have to fork over abother $500 a year later once all web servers and such go full palidium.

Libertine · 12-20-2003, 10:00 AM

While pay-as-you-go is most definitely a possibility, I don't think it will come that far for most basic things. It would scare away too many users who are willing to fork out the cash for the OS.

What I do consider very likely is "rent programs", programs which you rent instead of buy. For instance, PhotoShop would cost like $70 a month instead of a lump sum. The upside, ofcourse, is that upgrades and such would probably be included in that.

iwantchixx · 12-20-2003, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
While pay-as-you-go is most definitely a possibility, I don't think it will come that far for most basic things. It would scare away too many users who are willing to fork out the cash for the OS.

What I do consider very likely is "rent programs", programs which you rent instead of buy. For instance, PhotoShop would cost like $70 a month instead of a lump sum. The upside, ofcourse, is that upgrades and such would probably be included in that.

renting or "leasing" is definately a great idea. However your always paying for it. If they made the fee low enough to make it feasible I'd be all for it. The pay as you go scenerio is an MS ploy and it is as real as I am hairy. I got a friend who works for a HUGE web development organization and they have been instructed to implement this shit by a certain date, He didn't tell me what date because he could lose his job but he did tell me what he could say. and it's not good

You buy the OS at around half of today's price, but continue to pay for each component you use in it. Such as WMP, IE, Outlook, Notepad, Calc, etc etc. 3rd party applications won't be affected with this scenerio as of their plans yet.

stocktrader23 · 12-20-2003, 10:08 AM

Libertine · 12-20-2003, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iwantchixx

Such as WMP, IE, Outlook, Notepad, Calc, etc etc. 3rd party applications won't be affected with this scenerio as of their plans yet.

Winamp, FireBird, Pegasus, UltraEdit, etc. It would be a rather stupid move, since there are alternatives out there.

iwantchixx · 12-20-2003, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

Winamp, FireBird, Pegasus, UltraEdit, etc. It would be a rather stupid move, since there are alternatives out there.

All of those alternatives will have to have their code verified in order for palidium to allow them to execute. The verification process is EXPENSIVE. Those apps will no longer be free. Either way, you'll still be paying OR be bombarded with very agressive advertising to pay for the validation process.

Libertine · 12-20-2003, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iwantchixx

All of those alternatives will have to have their code verified in order for palidium to allow them to execute. The verification process is EXPENSIVE. Those apps will no longer be free. Either way, you'll still be paying OR be bombarded with very agressive advertising to pay for the validation process.

You'll probably have to pay, yes, but it is quite likely that it won't be pay as you go but one time fees. Personally, I don't really mind one time fees.

iwantchixx · 12-20-2003, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

You'll probably have to pay, yes, but it is quite likely that it won't be pay as you go but one time fees. Personally, I don't really mind one time fees.

yeah you're right

Libertine · 12-24-2003, 02:45 PM

Just got a funny reminder of this in the form of getting a "license migration" popup when trying to open a wma file. Insignificant, ofcourse, but an indication of things to come nonetheless.

http://drmlicense.one.microsoft.com/...vacyPolicy.asp

12-19-2003, 06:33 PM	#1
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	What do you know about NGSCB (Palladium)? Some of you may already have heard about it. "Trusted Computing". Microsoft, Intel, IBM, HP and AMD have formed an alliance to create/promote a new standard for a more secure digital environment. What it essentially holds is that it will become almost impossible to run unlicensed software, that it will become very easy to create content with a limited functionality (e.g. vids that play for 5 times then auto-destruct), that spam will become a lot easier to block (at least, that's what m$ says), and a whole bunch of other stuff. On the flipside, it will form a huge problem for the open source community and it will give these companies a LOT of control over your PC - and with them governmental organizations. Now, please note that this isn't just a vague future prediction. They're working on it right now. It's in the planning that a large part of the functionality will be implemented in the next version of Windows, Longhorn. So what are your opinions on this? It will make it a lot easier to protect your copyrights, and will provide easier and more secure methods of payment for the consumer. On the other hand, your digital freedom will be greatly diminished. For more info, look here: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html (and for those of you that don't get it yet: this is potentially a LOT bigger than Acacia) __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

12-19-2003, 06:41 PM	#2
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	Ofcourse, this is going to be one of those no reply-posts. And in two years, all of you will come crying to GFY because you had no idea of the significance of the changes. __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

12-19-2003, 06:49 PM	#3
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	hmmm, well... I can see the pros as well as the cons to this. I understand the need to gain some control over this shit, but at the same time, I DO NOT like the idea of some asshole looking at my fucking documents and email and bank records and shit. And because of that, the cons outweigh the pros. That shit needs to go down in flames. I won't be allowin' nunna that bullshit ta be goin' on here. I'll go back to balancing bank accounts on paper before I'll hand over the keys to some twit in an MS cubicle. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

12-19-2003, 06:53 PM	#4
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	Chances of it going down in flames are slim to non-existent, simply because there aren't any really big companies trying to fight it. The open source community doesn't like it, but they aren't exactly the most organized group in the world. Ofcourse, one thing's a fact: the people in the porn industry who anticipate on this and manage to integrate it in their business very quickly will profit immensely. __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

12-20-2003, 08:55 AM	#7
wimpy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 607	It is necessary. People are far too stupid to manage their own computer security, and even if they can, it's a huge waste of time and effort. Corporations will jump at this as a way to reduce the work load of their IT staff. Individuals will like it because it manages their security, and with all the fucking scumware out there they won't bitch as long as it gets rid of the problem. Still, whatever it is, it will be hacked. And when it is, with all the power it has, it will be an event, that's for sure. __________________ Fyodor Dostoyevsky wrote: "Every man has reminiscences which he would not tell to everyone but only his friends. He has other matters in his mind which he would not reveal even to his friends, but only to himself, and that in secret. But there are other things which a man is afraid to tell even to himself, and every decent man has a number of such things stored away in his mind." icq 8243657

12-19-2003, 07:52 PM	#5
lEricPl Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: FL Posts: 1,062	Time for the foil hats.

12-20-2003, 09:06 AM	#8
iwantchixx Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Boonies Posts: 12,860	One major pissoff about all of this is the following. 1) First generation Palidium chips will comunicate with every piece of hardware out there but the second generation will ONLY communicate with Palidium based machines. How does this affect us? Well, once all dns, ISP, webservers, ftp servers, mail servers etc etc upgrade in a few years time they will all be palidium based by then and your non palidium based machine will NOT be able to work online at all. Thus, yoru system you just forked 3 grand into will be a doorstop in a few years time. Sad to think of all those millions of PC"s that will be thrown away and causing everyone to buy new pc's Nice plan they have there. 2) It can and most likely will be done so that the document you created with office 2013 will no longer load once office 2014 is released and you will be forced to upgrade the software in order to read it. 3) You want to create an application to check your stats for you on a daily basis. Oops. It won;t run! Now you have to send it to MS, pay an insane fee, and they may nto even validate it. 4) Free software may be a thing of the past. Apache will have to be verified, at a cost to the developpers. That cost will be forwarded to the user. Same goes for anythign free. 5) I have been talking with a buddy who has tight ties with MS and the outlook is not good for home users. There is the ability to charge you based on PER USAGE of each MS app. Load notepad? That'll cost you 5 cents. Load internet explorer? That'll be another 5 cents. This is not hawgwash. This is reality folks, The ability is there and the systems are already being developped to achieve this and charge it to your credit card. Palidium makes this possible since it has to authorize each file each time it is laoded and it is verified through MS servers. 6) No internet connection? Your pc won't boot. Internet connection drops? You just lost all your work. 7) The internet will no longer be what it was designed for. it was designed for teh free flow of information. With Palidium it wil be a pay-as-you-go model. Bottom line, this internet/pc dooms day scenerio is a reality. Every piece of code wil NEED to be validated and payed for.

12-20-2003, 10:00 AM	#14
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	While pay-as-you-go is most definitely a possibility, I don't think it will come that far for most basic things. It would scare away too many users who are willing to fork out the cash for the OS. What I do consider very likely is "rent programs", programs which you rent instead of buy. For instance, PhotoShop would cost like $70 a month instead of a lump sum. The upside, ofcourse, is that upgrades and such would probably be included in that. __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

12-20-2003, 10:08 AM	#16
stocktrader23 Let's do some business. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The dirty south. Posts: 18,781	<center><img src="http://web.mit.edu/menshockey/pictures/unabomber.jpg"> It's time.....</center> __________________ Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

12-24-2003, 02:45 PM	#21
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	Just got a funny reminder of this in the form of getting a "license migration" popup when trying to open a wma file. Insignificant, ofcourse, but an indication of things to come nonetheless. http://drmlicense.one.microsoft.com/...vacyPolicy.asp __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/