KimmyKim or any other CC people... - GoFuckYourself.com

jayeff · 05-31-2003, 12:57 AM

would you care to make an informed guess as to whether, when Visa get around to the AVS world, they may consider AVS webmasters as merely agents for the AVS and therefore only require the AVS itself to be compliant?

It is hard to imagine Visa wanting to give up the chance to raise thousands of $750 fees, but after all that status is the legal reality.

I'm just asking the question rather than hoping it might be their decision, because webmasters won't end up any better off. The AVS operators will want to recoup the costs of policing sites more thoroughly.

TIA

Rochard · 05-31-2003, 01:00 AM

KK doesn't work for CCBill these days, although she might step up to the plate and answer your question (once I untie her).

I've passed this up to CCBill.

Kimmykim · 05-31-2003, 01:01 AM

That's like asking if it's going to rain three weeks from Thursday... no one can really say for sure, and I don't think Visa's got a really clear idea on the situation.

I know they are looking at it, I know the IPSPs are giving their opinions, and how it will turn out is anyone's guess.

I can see the validity of Visa's points regarding unauthorized aggregation. But at the moment I think compliance is more concerned with companies that are claiming to be processors that are not in compliance more than anything else.

gothweb · 05-31-2003, 01:02 AM

The question:
AVS: Aggregator, or Affiliates?

Kimmykim · 05-31-2003, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard
KK doesn't work for CCBill these days, although she might step up to the plate and answer your question (once I untie her).

I've passed this up to CCBill.

Hey goofus, he didn't say CCBill people, he said cc people ;)

jayeff · 05-31-2003, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard
KK doesn't work for CCBill these days, although she might step up to the plate and answer your question (once I untie her).

I've passed this up to CCBill.

Thanks... I know she has moved on, but with her past experience and involvement with EPassporte I figured she might be good for an informed opinion.

I know there are other "CC" (credit card) people in here. I just couldn't remember any other names

jayeff · 05-31-2003, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
That's like asking if it's going to rain three weeks from Thursday...

I know, but thanks for the input anyway

Kimmykim · 05-31-2003, 01:11 AM

My suggestion if you are an avs site webmaster --

First off, make sure your sites are in compliance with what Visa wants. If you're in doubt, go back thru some threads on here and see what kind of sites were terminated by Visa. These would include bestiality, implied underage, extreme fetish, etc.

Next, make sure that your avs tours are not promising something that is not there.

Make sure you have all your records for your content and you know who's the custodian for the parts that you don't normally get.

Last but not least, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Spread your sites among several AVS companies so that if there is an issue with one, you may buy yourself some time with another IF it were to come to that and still have some income.

Oh and check out who your AVS is processing with -- if you doubt the integrity of THEIR processor, then you should probably not be sending them any business.

gothweb · 05-31-2003, 01:13 AM

Good advice.

jayeff · 05-31-2003, 01:18 AM

Thanks KK, good advice in any circumstances these days

What I was actually thinking about when I first posted was the potential fallout should Visa decide we are affiliates.

Then in their own interests the AVS operators will need to maintain much tighter control over the sites in their systems. They have always avoided doing this, not just to save money, but to avoid playing an "editorial role". And that is intended as a legal defense against liability for whatever appears on the sites.

So the possible implications are not only financial when Visa do finally get around to us.

Kimmykim · 05-31-2003, 01:29 AM

The AVS should be able to argue in their own defense that you are merely advertisers, at least with the regular AVS sites. With the platinum, gold, etc type thing, that's going to be much harder to prove...

The premise of an AVS is not really that much different than that of any site that allows the affiliate to bypass the tour pages that are standard and have been approved by Visa and link to pages within the tour or to the join.

I know the IPSPs are lobby Visa rather hard to leave the AVS situation alone.

But at the same time Visa is on a rip and a tear to protect their brand image and cull out some of the deadwood (or whomever they would like to see dead) in the business.

If they were to start surfing around and finding a lot of things they don't like in AVS, especially if they were to find terminated URLs that were now being processed in AVS systems, I think they would take a much harder look and stricter stance on things.

There is also the matter of the free AVS -- where no transaction to the AVS site actually takes place, the transaction is to a cross sell or similar type of site... what does Visa do then? They don't have much of a ground against the AVS given their current regulations... but I'm sure they can change those if need be and quickly lol...

Zprogramz · 05-31-2003, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
The AVS should be able to argue in their own defense that you are merely advertisers, at least with the regular AVS sites. With the platinum, gold, etc type thing, that's going to be much harder to prove...

The premise of an AVS is not really that much different than that of any site that allows the affiliate to bypass the tour pages that are standard and have been approved by Visa and link to pages within the tour or to the join.

I know the IPSPs are lobby Visa rather hard to leave the AVS situation alone.

But at the same time Visa is on a rip and a tear to protect their brand image and cull out some of the deadwood (or whomever they would like to see dead) in the business.

If they were to start surfing around and finding a lot of things they don't like in AVS, especially if they were to find terminated URLs that were now being processed in AVS systems, I think they would take a much harder look and stricter stance on things.

There is also the matter of the free AVS -- where no transaction to the AVS site actually takes place, the transaction is to a cross sell or similar type of site... what does Visa do then? They don't have much of a ground against the AVS given their current regulations... but I'm sure they can change those if need be and quickly lol...

There will be no argument... What Visa (and MAstercard) says, goes. Do you think that Visa gives a shit about what any IPSP or AVS has to say? Please! They may pretend to listen but in the end, they do not care. They are out to protect their brand, be profitable, and get rid of all of the fraud, period. They want to protect the consumer.

Z
Z

jayeff · 05-31-2003, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
The AVS should be able to argue in their own defense that you are merely advertisers, at least with the regular AVS sites. With the platinum, gold, etc type thing, that's going to be much harder to prove...

Assuming of course they want that outcome. That would leave them with the job of having to police the sites far more thoroughly than now. The cost and logistics for the big operators would be a nightmare. And there is the potential problem that I described in my last post.

It will be interesting to watch how it all pans out. Thanks again for your comments.

05-31-2003, 12:57 AM	#1
jayeff Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 2,944	KimmyKim or any other CC people... would you care to make an informed guess as to whether, when Visa get around to the AVS world, they may consider AVS webmasters as merely agents for the AVS and therefore only require the AVS itself to be compliant? It is hard to imagine Visa wanting to give up the chance to raise thousands of $750 fees, but after all that status is the legal reality. I'm just asking the question rather than hoping it might be their decision, because webmasters won't end up any better off. The AVS operators will want to recoup the costs of policing sites more thoroughly. TIA

05-31-2003, 01:00 AM	#2
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 74,651	KK doesn't work for CCBill these days, although she might step up to the plate and answer your question (once I untie her). I've passed this up to CCBill. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

05-31-2003, 01:02 AM	#4
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	The question: AVS: Aggregator, or Affiliates? __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

05-31-2003, 01:13 AM	#9
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	Good advice. __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

05-31-2003, 01:01 AM	#3
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	That's like asking if it's going to rain three weeks from Thursday... no one can really say for sure, and I don't think Visa's got a really clear idea on the situation. I know they are looking at it, I know the IPSPs are giving their opinions, and how it will turn out is anyone's guess. I can see the validity of Visa's points regarding unauthorized aggregation. But at the moment I think compliance is more concerned with companies that are claiming to be processors that are not in compliance more than anything else.

05-31-2003, 01:11 AM	#8
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	My suggestion if you are an avs site webmaster -- First off, make sure your sites are in compliance with what Visa wants. If you're in doubt, go back thru some threads on here and see what kind of sites were terminated by Visa. These would include bestiality, implied underage, extreme fetish, etc. Next, make sure that your avs tours are not promising something that is not there. Make sure you have all your records for your content and you know who's the custodian for the parts that you don't normally get. Last but not least, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Spread your sites among several AVS companies so that if there is an issue with one, you may buy yourself some time with another IF it were to come to that and still have some income. Oh and check out who your AVS is processing with -- if you doubt the integrity of THEIR processor, then you should probably not be sending them any business.

05-31-2003, 01:18 AM	#10
jayeff Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 2,944	Thanks KK, good advice in any circumstances these days What I was actually thinking about when I first posted was the potential fallout should Visa decide we are affiliates. Then in their own interests the AVS operators will need to maintain much tighter control over the sites in their systems. They have always avoided doing this, not just to save money, but to avoid playing an "editorial role". And that is intended as a legal defense against liability for whatever appears on the sites. So the possible implications are not only financial when Visa do finally get around to us.

05-31-2003, 01:29 AM	#11
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	The AVS should be able to argue in their own defense that you are merely advertisers, at least with the regular AVS sites. With the platinum, gold, etc type thing, that's going to be much harder to prove... The premise of an AVS is not really that much different than that of any site that allows the affiliate to bypass the tour pages that are standard and have been approved by Visa and link to pages within the tour or to the join. I know the IPSPs are lobby Visa rather hard to leave the AVS situation alone. But at the same time Visa is on a rip and a tear to protect their brand image and cull out some of the deadwood (or whomever they would like to see dead) in the business. If they were to start surfing around and finding a lot of things they don't like in AVS, especially if they were to find terminated URLs that were now being processed in AVS systems, I think they would take a much harder look and stricter stance on things. There is also the matter of the free AVS -- where no transaction to the AVS site actually takes place, the transaction is to a cross sell or similar type of site... what does Visa do then? They don't have much of a ground against the AVS given their current regulations... but I'm sure they can change those if need be and quickly lol...