The end of US porn webmasters or not? - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 05-08-2003, 01:13 AM

Personally I do not worry about these attacks. If they close down US websites completely it will just mean more US citizens will be spending their $$$ in the EU.

But this was interesting.

Quote:

You may know that the PROTECT Act requires General Ashhahahahaha and the Justice Department to report back to Congress in a year or less concerning the number of 2257 records inspections and subsequent violation prosecutions that have occurred. What you probably don?t know is that penalties for 2257 violations have been increased from 2 years in jail to 5 years in jail, and repeat offenders can be sentenced to 10 years in jail. If you run an adult site, chances are you are in violation of 18 U.S.C. 2257, which opens you up to this risk. And while before the government couldn?t use your 2257 records against you, now they can indeed do just that. 2257 will be a huge issue before this year is done, I can promise you that. Get a lawyer now.

Read the entire thing here. http://www.theadultwebmaster.com/art..._protect.phtml

Undutchable · 05-08-2003, 01:14 AM

It will certainly not be the end but it will probably weed out a lot of screwups who arent operating according to the law...

fantasycontent · 05-08-2003, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undutchable
It will certainly not be the end but it will probably weed out a lot of screwups who arent operating according to the law...

which could actually be a good thing! especially for those that do follow the laws.

ownerland · 05-08-2003, 01:30 AM

Almost

OzKaNoz · 05-08-2003, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undutchable
It will certainly not be the end but it will probably weed out a lot of screwups who arent operating according to the law...

Right on! I couldn't have said it better myself.

There was a IRC chat with Lawyer Larry Walters last Tuesday.
I sat in on the whole thing.
It's not nearly as bad as everyone seems to think.
But it will get things cleaned up.

Oz

playa · 05-08-2003, 01:36 AM

government will come to the same conclusion as they did with spam, the internet is too globalized and it's impossible to just make it illegal

also if you remember the latest reports on how much money the adult industry and marijuana makes.. they sure as hell won't take away them tax revenue

Paul Markham · 05-08-2003, 01:41 AM

It's not the end of porn or the end of Interent porn. It's a great opportunity for European porn webmasters to make a lot of money.

What happens if they close every single porno website in the US? The surfer comes to websites in Europe. If they convince Visa/Mastercard worldwide to completely ban all purchases for porn on the net (even more crazy), we charge by dialers, MSN, checks, etc.The only thing that will stop Internet porn is if they ban it from being carried through the US network. How likely is that?

However it is wake up time for a lot of webmasters. They can no longer carry on running Mumma and Poppa organisations with little or no documentation.

Push the envelope on what is allowed and you put your head above the wall, don't complain if you get it blown off. The one thing the extra 25 prosecutors are going to want, to justify their existance, is some quick convictions.

Will they go for LFP with their resources or a "Max Hardcore" type?

smack · 05-08-2003, 01:43 AM

do you think they're just going to start handing out indicments? or will it be one of those things where they will notify you and allow you a certain amount of time to fix it? and how can you make sure ALL your conent is compliant?

OzKaNoz · 05-08-2003, 01:47 AM

charly
I would not mean more money for Euro webmasters. How do you figure that. The Gov would just simply block the offening domains.

But it will never get that far. The laws in most part will clean up a lot of BS that webmasters should have done in the first place.

Oz

Paul Markham · 05-08-2003, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OzKaNoz
charly
I would not mean more money for Euro webmasters. How do you figure that. The Gov would just simply block the offening domains.

But it will never get that far. The laws in most part will clean up a lot of BS that webmasters should have done in the first place.

Oz

The Govermant cannot to widely ban domains or they will face LFP, SCORE, etc in the Supreme Court. But they can go after the small to medium guys and those "pushing the envelope".

I agree 100% with the second part though. What will have to happen is a lot of the smaller organisations are going to have to wake up to the fact that they're in the porn business and start to get a bit more professional.

ADL Colin · 05-08-2003, 02:46 AM

When I was in boyscouts they taught me to "always be prepared".

Carrie · 05-08-2003, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by playa
also if you remember the latest reports on how much money the adult industry and marijuana makes.. they sure as hell won't take away them tax revenue

Mmm... yeah. You mean all of those *untaxed* internet purchases and the millions of revenue from them that go into *untaxed* offshore accounts?

Charly, I appreciate what you're saying but be careful how you say it. Many webmasters will simply skim over your posts and see it as nothing more than fear-mongering.

Theo · 05-08-2003, 04:03 AM

nothing will change

jact · 05-08-2003, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie

Many webmasters will simply skim over your posts and see it as nothing more than fear-mongering.

You mean that isn't what he was doing... again?

scoreman · 05-08-2003, 07:21 AM

The PROTECT Act which was signed into law by Bush April 30, 2003 has a number of sections, but Title V has the most relevent items:

(Sec. 511) Revises record-keeping requirements to include computer-generated images, digital images, and pictures of visual depictions.

The Attorney General has to report to Congress detailing the number of times since January 1993 that the Department of Justice has inspected the records of any producer of materials with respect to sexual abuse and other exploitation of children; and and report the number of violations prosecuted as a result of those inspections. (short analysis: Pressure on the DOJ to start enforcing 2257 and to have successful prosecutions.)

(Sec. 513) Directs the Attorney General to appoint 25 additional trial attorneys for investigation and prosecution of Federal child pornography laws. Requires the Attorney General to report biennially to specified congressional officials on Federal enforcement actions. (Short analysis: Lots of attorneys looking to put pornographers in jail. Investigations, indictments and prison sentences will happen or it will look like the DOJ is not doing the job mandated to it).

(Sec. 602) Expresses the sense of Congress that: (1) the Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section of the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice should focus its investigative and prosecutorial efforts on major producers, distributors, and sellers of obscene material and child pornography that use misleading methods to market their material to children; and (2) the online commercial adult entertainment industry should voluntarily refrain from placing obscenity, child pornography, or material that is harmful to minors on the front pages of their website.

(short analysis: USA adult industry folks need to self police because the DOJ is coming to put people in prison who dont self police)

(Sec. 511) Authorizes the interception of communications in the investigation of offenses involving obscene visual representations of young children or sexual abuse of minors.
(Short Analysis: DOJ doesnt need to follow wiretap limitations in investigating lolita and teen cases)

(Sec. 502) Prohibits: (1) making a visual depiction that is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image of, or that is indistinguishable from an image of, a minor engaging in specified sexually explicit conduct; (2) offering, agreeing, attempting, or conspiring to provide, sell, receive, or purchase a visual depiction of a minor engaging in such conduct; (3) producing distributing, receiving or possessing with intent to distribute, or possessing a visual depiction that is, or is virtually indistinguishable from, that of a pre-pubescent child engaging in such conduct; (4) producing, distributing, receiving, or possessing with intent to distribute a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that, under specified circumstances, depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct and that is obscene; (5) showing a minor obscene material or child pornography; (6) providing obscene material, child pornography, or other material assistance to facilitate offenses against minors; or (7) employing or coercing a minor to engage in sexually explicit conduct outside of the United States for the purpose of producing a visual depiction of such conduct.

(Short Analysis: Anime and other illustrated sites and content providers better read this one closely)

FlyingIguana · 05-08-2003, 07:29 AM

so how do you get in compliance with 2257?

scoreman · 05-08-2003, 08:12 AM

There are many aspects of this law that will be challenged such as
(5) showing a minor obscene material or child pornography

Thats broad and would seem to target free sites but also encompasses sites with art, medical information and rotten.com type sites. Expect lawsuits by many civil liberties groups.

EscortBiz · 05-08-2003, 08:21 AM

2257 will be the last reason a webmaster is sent to jail

KRL · 05-08-2003, 08:25 AM

The fact of the matter is the DOJ can't even keep up with the volumeous amount of Child Porn cases its investigating. When we see that happen, I'm sure the next concentrated effort will be more towards what you're saying Charly.

And the bottom line is there are no webmasters I know of that would be stupid enough to deliberately hire underage models.

The guys doing that are intentionally in violation of 2257 and are the CP guys.

Bobby Vicious · 05-08-2003, 08:56 AM

Define obscenity. Is it as broad as the Paul Cambria's list.

Define CP? What is classified as pre-pubescent and what isn't?

Everything is so fuckin' broad and vague. I doubt the powers that be will be putting out a list that defines what they deem punishable by law. Webmasters beware.

scoreman · 05-08-2003, 09:06 AM

The one aspect of this PROTECT act that scares me the most is the hiring of 25 prosecutors who have to report back to congress with their results. The funding of these lawyers will not be impeded by constitutional challenges to this law. You think that these prosecutors are going to go back to congress with zero results? Hell no, they will be trying to parade all the heads of the enemies they killed. The DOJ has an incentive to prosecute, jobs and raises will be relying on it.

bmark · 05-08-2003, 09:35 AM

There are 1000's of heads they can carry to congress - the amateurs.
The republicans will beat off on their bibles and tell the American public how righteous they are. Bottom line is they will never get rid of it.
ITS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY - DON'T KNOCK IT.

UnseenWorld · 05-08-2003, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OzKaNoz
charly
I would not mean more money for Euro webmasters. How do you figure that. The Gov would just simply block the offening domains.

Welcome to life in Communist China.

tony286 · 05-08-2003, 10:54 AM

Quote:

the bottom line is there are no webmasters I know of that would be stupid enough to deliberately hire underage models.

You dont know that, look at that idiot from "Girls Gone Wild" . Webmasters have been very irresponsible now we all have to pay. If a webmaster has graphic stuff all over their preview because thats the only way they know how to sell a membership. They should get ready for a long very bumpy road lol. For them to win court cases they are going to have to show extreme stuff because America is numb to seeing people naked or just fucking. It will be sites with fisting, I saw one site had a fisting pop up, sites with girls swallowing cum and gagging. Sites with Cremepies, cum all over the place or treating women like pieces of meat. You know there have been times we regret we havent gone harder on my wifes site, we do ok but dont make the big bucks. Now that the times are changing I am glad we didnt because those whose members are used to that, its very hard to backup. A good test for your site if you are in doubt, close your eyes and imagine a jury made up of your parents and grandparents looking at the hardest pic or video on your site what would their reaction be if the gasp comes to mind, you might want to get ready for a problem.

gruffy · 05-08-2003, 10:56 AM

WE WILL HAVE OUR REVENGE, COMRADES

playa · 05-08-2003, 10:58 AM

Geez will the protect act stop the production of teen movies that talk bout sex?

My goodness people could go to jail for making movie like American Pie

kmanrox · 05-08-2003, 11:25 AM

fuck tha poe-leese!!!

=P

Adult Site Traffic · 05-08-2003, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fantasycontent
which could actually be a good thing! especially for those that do follow the laws.

And, the rest of the money for us!

wimpy · 05-08-2003, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scoreman
The hiring of 25 prosecutors... You think that these prosecutors are going to go back to congress with zero results? ...jobs and raises will be relying on it.

I agree. They are after numbers. The pressure to produce numbers will mean they will go after the easy cases. They have funding, and they have a very clear law that says "do this or else" and they will run with it.

25 lawyers aren't all that many though. They'll get swamped just dealing with the people with no 2257 at all. After the easy stuff is done, they'll be swamped with the people who tried to comply but didn't. After that is the KP that they uncover. They won't get to the regular guys.

Notice the constant repetition of child references. That's the big thing, always will be. If you have a "young teen" site you'd better have all your ducks in a row.

freeadultcontent · 05-08-2003, 11:27 PM

The child references is just a ploy. Just like WMD in the war.

booker · 05-08-2003, 11:33 PM

Let's say it together.. "Satisfy your constituents and campaign contributors."

nike · 05-09-2003, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by playa
Geez will the protect act stop the production of teen movies that talk bout sex?

My goodness people could go to jail for making movie like American Pie

This movie was quoted as an example recently in a legal lecture in the UK about US laws.

To be honest I can't see it lasting in the US, I mean how much rabid fundamentalism can a traditionally very together nation let go on?

Still good opportunity to pick up high traffic domains, and niches which play happily on European soil, but the new US is so picky about.

05-08-2003, 01:41 AM	#7
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	It's not the end of porn or the end of Interent porn. It's a great opportunity for European porn webmasters to make a lot of money. What happens if they close every single porno website in the US? The surfer comes to websites in Europe. If they convince Visa/Mastercard worldwide to completely ban all purchases for porn on the net (even more crazy), we charge by dialers, MSN, checks, etc.The only thing that will stop Internet porn is if they ban it from being carried through the US network. How likely is that? However it is wake up time for a lot of webmasters. They can no longer carry on running Mumma and Poppa organisations with little or no documentation. Push the envelope on what is allowed and you put your head above the wall, don't complain if you get it blown off. The one thing the extra 25 prosecutors are going to want, to justify their existance, is some quick convictions. Will they go for LFP with their resources or a "Max Hardcore" type? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

05-08-2003, 01:43 AM	#8
smack Push Porn Like Weight. Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Inside .NET Posts: 10,652	do you think they're just going to start handing out indicments? or will it be one of those things where they will notify you and allow you a certain amount of time to fix it? and how can you make sure ALL your conent is compliant? __________________ Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

05-08-2003, 01:47 AM	#9
OzKaNoz Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Deep With In Your Mind Posts: 1,834	charly I would not mean more money for Euro webmasters. How do you figure that. The Gov would just simply block the offening domains. But it will never get that far. The laws in most part will clean up a lot of BS that webmasters should have done in the first place. Oz __________________ Techie Media Web Hosting

05-08-2003, 02:46 AM	#11
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	When I was in boyscouts they taught me to "always be prepared". __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

05-08-2003, 07:21 AM	#15
scoreman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,491	The PROTECT Act which was signed into law by Bush April 30, 2003 has a number of sections, but Title V has the most relevent items: (Sec. 511) Revises record-keeping requirements to include computer-generated images, digital images, and pictures of visual depictions. The Attorney General has to report to Congress detailing the number of times since January 1993 that the Department of Justice has inspected the records of any producer of materials with respect to sexual abuse and other exploitation of children; and and report the number of violations prosecuted as a result of those inspections. (short analysis: Pressure on the DOJ to start enforcing 2257 and to have successful prosecutions.) (Sec. 513) Directs the Attorney General to appoint 25 additional trial attorneys for investigation and prosecution of Federal child pornography laws. Requires the Attorney General to report biennially to specified congressional officials on Federal enforcement actions. (Short analysis: Lots of attorneys looking to put pornographers in jail. Investigations, indictments and prison sentences will happen or it will look like the DOJ is not doing the job mandated to it). (Sec. 602) Expresses the sense of Congress that: (1) the Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section of the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice should focus its investigative and prosecutorial efforts on major producers, distributors, and sellers of obscene material and child pornography that use misleading methods to market their material to children; and (2) the online commercial adult entertainment industry should voluntarily refrain from placing obscenity, child pornography, or material that is harmful to minors on the front pages of their website. (short analysis: USA adult industry folks need to self police because the DOJ is coming to put people in prison who dont self police) (Sec. 511) Authorizes the interception of communications in the investigation of offenses involving obscene visual representations of young children or sexual abuse of minors. (Short Analysis: DOJ doesnt need to follow wiretap limitations in investigating lolita and teen cases) (Sec. 502) Prohibits: (1) making a visual depiction that is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image of, or that is indistinguishable from an image of, a minor engaging in specified sexually explicit conduct; (2) offering, agreeing, attempting, or conspiring to provide, sell, receive, or purchase a visual depiction of a minor engaging in such conduct; (3) producing distributing, receiving or possessing with intent to distribute, or possessing a visual depiction that is, or is virtually indistinguishable from, that of a pre-pubescent child engaging in such conduct; (4) producing, distributing, receiving, or possessing with intent to distribute a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that, under specified circumstances, depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct and that is obscene; (5) showing a minor obscene material or child pornography; (6) providing obscene material, child pornography, or other material assistance to facilitate offenses against minors; or (7) employing or coercing a minor to engage in sexually explicit conduct outside of the United States for the purpose of producing a visual depiction of such conduct. (Short Analysis: Anime and other illustrated sites and content providers better read this one closely) __________________ Last edited by scoreman; 05-08-2003 at 07:27 AM..

05-08-2003, 01:14 AM	#2
Undutchable Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,217	It will certainly not be the end but it will probably weed out a lot of screwups who arent operating according to the law...

05-08-2003, 01:30 AM	#4
ownerland So Fucking Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 153	Almost

05-08-2003, 01:36 AM	#6
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	government will come to the same conclusion as they did with spam, the internet is too globalized and it's impossible to just make it illegal also if you remember the latest reports on how much money the adult industry and marijuana makes.. they sure as hell won't take away them tax revenue

05-08-2003, 04:03 AM	#13
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	nothing will change

05-08-2003, 07:29 AM	#16
FlyingIguana aspiring banker Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto Posts: 10,870	so how do you get in compliance with 2257?

05-08-2003, 08:12 AM	#17
scoreman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,491	There are many aspects of this law that will be challenged such as (5) showing a minor obscene material or child pornography Thats broad and would seem to target free sites but also encompasses sites with art, medical information and rotten.com type sites. Expect lawsuits by many civil liberties groups. __________________

05-08-2003, 08:21 AM	#18
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	2257 will be the last reason a webmaster is sent to jail __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

05-08-2003, 08:25 AM	#19
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	The fact of the matter is the DOJ can't even keep up with the volumeous amount of Child Porn cases its investigating. When we see that happen, I'm sure the next concentrated effort will be more towards what you're saying Charly. And the bottom line is there are no webmasters I know of that would be stupid enough to deliberately hire underage models. The guys doing that are intentionally in violation of 2257 and are the CP guys. __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

05-08-2003, 08:56 AM	#20
Bobby Vicious Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bahamas Posts: 452	Define obscenity. Is it as broad as the Paul Cambria's list. Define CP? What is classified as pre-pubescent and what isn't? Everything is so fuckin' broad and vague. I doubt the powers that be will be putting out a list that defines what they deem punishable by law. Webmasters beware.

05-08-2003, 09:06 AM	#21
scoreman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,491	The one aspect of this PROTECT act that scares me the most is the hiring of 25 prosecutors who have to report back to congress with their results. The funding of these lawyers will not be impeded by constitutional challenges to this law. You think that these prosecutors are going to go back to congress with zero results? Hell no, they will be trying to parade all the heads of the enemies they killed. The DOJ has an incentive to prosecute, jobs and raises will be relying on it. __________________

05-08-2003, 09:35 AM	#22
bmark Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: California Posts: 9	There are 1000's of heads they can carry to congress - the amateurs. The republicans will beat off on their bibles and tell the American public how righteous they are. Bottom line is they will never get rid of it. ITS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY - DON'T KNOCK IT. __________________ Great content from real pornographers. Contact me for a deal. ICQ 174543981 Phone # (949) 702-0934

05-08-2003, 10:56 AM	#25
gruffy So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Canuckastan Posts: 776	WE WILL HAVE OUR REVENGE, COMRADES

05-08-2003, 10:58 AM	#26
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	Geez will the protect act stop the production of teen movies that talk bout sex? My goodness people could go to jail for making movie like American Pie

05-08-2003, 11:25 AM	#27
kmanrox aka K-Man Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Gutter Posts: 29,292	fuck tha poe-leese!!! =P

05-08-2003, 11:27 PM	#30
freeadultcontent Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: "evitcepsrep ruoy egnahc" Posts: 9,976	The child references is just a ploy. Just like WMD in the war. __________________ Exclusive Ethnic & Microniche Sites

05-08-2003, 11:33 PM	#31
booker Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Baltimore Posts: 1,370	Let's say it together.. "Satisfy your constituents and campaign contributors." __________________ Xanadu024 (aim) or 286785389 (icq) "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."