i scanned and can't see it? i am hearing things that the car disappeared and was cleaned before it could be properly tested.. so it is unable to be used as evidence?

also,

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...y-report-msnbc

Expert: My Michael Brown Autopsy Analysis Was Taken 'Out Of Context'

Exactly, and you can't argue with the facts.

The one irrefutable fact here is that had this large kid not been out strutting around the nieghborhood like king kong and acting like he can take what he wants and smack around or threaten whomever he wants (clearly caught on store camera and backed up by eyewitness accounts) he would still be alive today. All the evidence I've seen suggests he very much did have that "fuck you - I'm huge, I'll fuck you up if you get in my way" attitude, which only lends credence to the cops' accounting of events.

Robbie, I'm certainly not a fan of cops in a lot of cases by any stretch, but in this case your bias is a bit too overwhelming here. A lot of cops need work, several are downright shitty cops, but not all are as corrupt and incompetant as your posts suggest.

I'd say I know or have known personally over 25 cops in my lifetime, most of them as friends. I can't think of ONE who wouldn't pull up and tell a couple of punks to get off the goddamn street and stop blocking traffic. Whatever occurs after that is really up to the thug, not the cop. The cop is going to do what he's going to do. The only variable is the thug's actions.

Had he chosen a different set of actions he'd still be alive. And that's a fact.

I got attacked once like that by a crazy ex-boyfriend of a girl I was screwing. We stopped at a light (she was driving) and my door swings open and someone starts swinging on me so fast I had no idea what was going on. I was all tangled in the seat belt trying to get out, and the only thing I could do was go for his nuts, so I did. That took him down and ended up sending him to the hospital. He hit like a girl, otherwise I would have got my ass handed to me while fighting a seat belt. Months later he had a handful of his bouncer friends beat me within an inch of my life at a club, split my lower lip into two, literally. But you know what, that pussy was worth every stitch. :thumbsup

A few of my good friends are cops. One of these guys is someone I have been friends with since grade school. He is a smart guy (I would assume at least of average to above average IQ) as are a good number of the officers he works with. That said, when I asked him what qualities make a good cop he said it isn't so much about IQ. That can help you write good reports and do good investigations, but on a day to day basis it all comes down to how well you can handle dealing with crazy bitches. He didn't mean just angry women, but people in general who have flipped out and are losing it. If you can keep your cool and deal with them well, you will be a good cop. If that causes you to freak out as well, you won't.

I think a lot of these cops that shoot people potentially prematurely don't handle crazy bitches well.

As usual...the voice of logic...reason...and good common sense.

Sorry that just sounds retarded.

I've had a small cop, about 5'10 pull a taser on me because I yelled at him in a confined room. He was not doing his job right. But at least it was a taser!

Most of the cops I see in LA these days are 5'10" and smaller.

PS, Been a bouncer, (Remember I'm a big guy) taking someone to the ground is an easy, cops know how to do it, but at the gun range, I've seen few cops that can shoot all that well!

Me, just grab an arm and play Tasmanian Devil, they won't use that arm again for months!

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=20263033&postcount=33

Michael Brown's gunshot wounds included a shot in the hand at close range, his official autopsy shows, according to an analysis reported by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper.


https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=20263103&postcount=44



- The officer shot Brown twice in the arm. Gunpowder residue was found in the wounds, shell casings and Browns blood in the car, proving there was indeed a close combat struggle.

Admit what?
And I'm not "assuming" anything. I guess I'm not communicating this correctly.

Here's my thoughts EXACTLY:
1. Cops have been given too much power.
2. When people get too much power...many of them will abuse it.
3. Cops shouldn't be shooting people in situations like this...much less shooting them six times with 2 shots straight in the head.

I don't know how to make it much clearer. I've already said my mom was a deputy sheriff, my grandfather on my mom's side was the chief of police in the town I grew up in, my step-brother is a cop, two of my cousins are cops. I have had a lot buddies who were cops (and worked with me in independent pro-wrestling federations in the Southeastern U.S.)
So no, I don't think cops are "evil". I think they have been given too much power and are able to get away with killing unarmed people.

They should go to jail just like you or I would if we had done the EXACT same thing.

No need to exaggerate my position and get all drama queen-y about it.

ahh my mistake, i am more referring to the blood in the car itself

edit: yea vague references:

'Brown's blood was found on the officer's uniform and inside his police car, law enforcement sources told CNN this week. Those sources corroborated details first reported by The New York Times.'

however there is reports that the vehicle was removed from the scene, regardless of hte body being left in the street for hours.. the rumour is the car was improperly handled and won't be used as evidence?

I think the reports are saying that this guy reached in through the window of the cop car (the door was locked). That's what I meant. If somebody reached through my window and tried to pull me out...they'd get an elbow in the face at the least, and at most I'd hit the gas and hang on to them and drag their sorry ass down the street.

At least that's what would happen if I were staring at them and saw them coming at me (like this cop did).

What happened to you sounds like you got caught unaware at first.

The fucking assumptions you make are astounding.

'I can not believe it; Michael Brown had it coming'

I hear you and agree that IQ isn't everything. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the IQ level of Brown supporters, or words to that effect, so I thought I would throw in probably the only applicable fact we know about the IQ's of anyone involved, even though it was lame. :)

When I was a radioshack store manager I would often hang out and talk to the cops who walked the beat around one particular store. They had some of the best stories about crazy people and I usually had to be the one to tell them that I had to go and get busy with my work. I'm sure they could have gone on for hours and never run out.

I'm not assuming anything. That was on the news that he pulled his cruiser over and told them to move.

I certainly wouldn't have had the balls to pull up to two strangers I don't know and talk to them like that if I were alone...unless of course I had a gun and a badge.

I don't know what part of "if he wasn't prepared to back it up" you didn't understand.
That's why I said if he COULDN'T back it up...he should have called for backup. God only knows that the cops always seem to show up in force every time I see them pull somebody over (it apparently takes at least 2 cars and 3 or 4 officers to give a soccer mom a speeding ticket here in Vegas).

Jesus...you and others in this thread are being so over-dramatic and silly.

This cop pulled up and pissed off a couple of young men who also happened to be bullies and had just robbed a place.
The cop's actions led to an altercation and the one guy getting shot 6 times until he was dead.

Maybe, just maybe...if the cop had been better at his job, when they got aggressive he would have called for back up.

There really wasn't any reason for this to happen.

As I said earlier...every night of the week, bouncers in bars handle aggressive big men.

I bounced at a strip club in South Carolina back in 1996.
I never killed anyone.
Most times you can handle people without getting physical. Even really big guys.
This cop had no skill in how to do that. Apparently he acted like a lot of cops do these days: They order you around and expect you to OBEY their every COMMAND.

Hell, half the posts in here are saying that if you don't obey their commands (like a dog) you "deserve" what you get.
I say, that's not the way it's supposed to be.

They are supposed to be civil servants. Protecting people. Not killing people.

Look, this guy Michael Brown was young and full of testosterone. He was looking for trouble, and had just robbed a store and bullied the guy behind the counter. He wasn't even gonna take any shit from a cop.

That's pretty damn aggressive.

Doesn't mean he should be dead. It means he should have gotten locked up and shown the error of his ways.

In the end...the cop on the scene is the one who is supposed to be the "better" man and handle the situation in a way that brings about the best outcome.

That's not what happened. I'm not saying I could do it any better. I'm saying that a well trained officer who deserves to be a cop would have handled it much better.
And this so-called cop who shot this guy 6 times with 2 kill shots to the head...should go to jail and to trial, just like you or I would.

what about jumping a cop and going for his gun?

Yea, totally caught off guard.

so MB was not responsible in any way for the situation.... that's your thinking? it's not like the cop pulled MB out of the house while he was doing his homework, or shot MB on the way home from his job at micky d's.... at what point does MB bear responsibility for any of this?

and maybe high quality people don't want to be cops anymore...who in the fuck wants to babysit a bunch of stupid, angry, obnoxious fucktards for 60K a year?

I don't think he "jumped a cop". The cop pulled up and accosted them from his patrol car. The guy mouthed off back at the cop and ran up to the window and according to the news reports tried to pull the cop out the window.

The cop's version is that the guy was going for his weapon (which if it were in the holster and this big guy is reaching in an open window seems kinda difficult to do).

But apparently the cop shot him while still in the car on the first shot.

The whole thing's fucked up.

Now, if a person walked up behind a cop and actually "jumped" him, put the beat down on him and grabbed the gun...yeah, he's probably gonna get shot.

Should he be shot 6 times with two of them straight to the head?
I guess...if it's a mob hit on the Sopranos.
But a trained police officer doing that? Isn't that the definition of "overkill" (literally)

Nope, that's not my "thinking" on it.

Am I not typing in clear English or something? Or are you joining in on the exaggerations of what I'm saying?

Fuck. I'll try again: It's not the JOB of some fucked up young bully to be the "good guy". He was the BAD guy.
And it's not the JOB of a cop to escalate a scenario into a situation where somebody gets killed.

This cop was not good at his job.

yeah, because the initial news media is always so accurate. Just admit; you are not going to believe anything that might point towards the cop's actions being justifiable.

...............

is Robbie a fake nic for brassmonkey???

No, I don't think the news media is very accurate. But it's all I have to go on and it's all YOU have to go on as well.

So now you've made two "astounding" assumptions right there.

You are assuming that the news reports so far are wrong.
And you're assuming that the cop is justified in shooting a guy 6 times until he is dead.

Why don't you "just admit" you're not going to believe anything that might point to the cops actions being UN-justified.

I guess it's just okay for a cop to get into a fight and shoot a guy 6 times and twice in the head.

But I wouldn't suggest that YOU try that if you get into a fight.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and make the "astounding" assumption that your ass will go to jail and to trial for murder in that situation.

No. I just think that if a cop shoots somebody they should go to trial for it just like you and I would.

If they are innocent, then let a jury decide it. Not the law enforcement brotherhood "investigating" themselves and....surprise! Finding no wrong doing. :(

If that's good enough for you or I (if we did the same thing)...then it should be good enough for cops too. They aren't supposed to be above the law.

a biker? of course a biker is going to think that everything the cops do is justified

right?

No, I know Robbie.

http://www.stltoday.com/online/pdf-a...a4bcf6878.html

Here's the only problem with that...or at least the major one that I can think of. This is a job where you may be called upon to shoot someone. They give you the gun and train you how and when to use it. You may, on any given day you are on the job, be called upon to do just that. Any good lawyer will tell you that juries are unpredictable. You are putting your fate in the hands of people who likely have never been in your shoes. All you need is a few cop haters on that jury and you can get screwed even if you didn't do anything wrong.

If that is the risk of the job you would have a difficult time finding quality people to do it.

I have no problem at all with setting up tasks forces and training non-police people to investigate shootings to help determine if something potentially illegal went down, but if the reality is that you shoot someone, you end up on trial and may go to jail for life, many cops would quit and do something else and many would-be quality cops would never join and would just go into another line of work.

Lets face it, cop's badassness wasn't anywhere near Robbie's. Not even Jason Statham badass, or Bruce Willis semi-badass. He did what most of us cowards would do.

Not a matter of whether or not he will be found justified, it's a matter of what should constitute justification.

I'd chalk this one up to not guilty and get on with the real conversation.

Perhaps if they all faced real jail time they wouldn't use lethal force so quickly OR they would carry non-lethal weapons with them at all times and use them first. What happened to rubber bullets, tasers, mace, and any other weapons that have been created that are non-lethal? They are planning a mission to MARS but no one has invested a better weapon for police to use? :helpme

As it stands, it's too easy for police to kill people and get away with it. The he said / she said nonsense all comes down to who is better represented in court. Most of this can be fixed by making them all wear cameras with audio. Then it will always be clear what happened. It will sort out the hot heads from the legit police officers real quick. I don't think that is too much to ask from someone who has the legal authority to take a life. We have the technology for this to happen right now, so there is really no excuse why they all are not wearing a cam right now.

You kinda just quit discussing this topic didn't you? But thanks for being kinda obsessive of me. I'm flattered. :) :1orglaugh

100% in agreement.

Now just pray that baddog and Horatio Caine don't crucify you for it. :1orglaugh

Thing is, in a situation like this exact one (if it plays out like the cops say it did), the problem isn't that the cop *doesn't* go on trial, it's that Average Joe *does* go on trial.

Though I'm talking specifically about this single case, and if it turns out that for once the cops are being truthful. If those turn out to be facts, then neither he, nor Mr. Joe should be arrested etc, rather than both Mr. Joe and he *should* face trial.

Though that'll never happen of course, because so much about the system as we know it is fucked up, not to mention how it's steered people's thinking.

death by cop is about 400 cases per year in the US, in Germany about 8

the US has like 4 times more people - that would make about 30 cases per year.

not 400.

I agree. The same thing that would happen to you or I if we went to court. The cops should have to face the same thing.

As DWB said...do we really need cops to be shooting and killing unarmed people to "protect" us?

Or would they still be able to do their job (serve and protect) without having to shoot and/or kill so many people?
Not talking about a gunfight...of course the cops are gonna shoot like crazy in that situation...I'm referring to the kind of thing that happened in this case.

As DWB said...maybe if they DID face the same consequences as every other person, they wouldn't be so quick to pull those guns.

And the cameras are definitely needed.

The fact that most cops and cop unions are against cops wearing cameras on their uniforms speaks volumes in my opinion.

I think they would be forced to give them some kind of alternative weapons and or support. There would need to be money put in place so that every patrol car could have two cops in it instead of one so they always had backup in every situation.

You can't give someone a gun, train them to use it, expect them to use it when needed them put them on trial for their lives if they use it and still expect quality people to do that job.

I presume you have a link to back that up; would love to read it.

I am 100% for all cops wearing cameras. We have the technology and we should use it. If a cop acts criminally they should be charged and dealt with as such.

Here is the difference between you, me and a cop. We don't deal with scumbags and criminals all day long every day. Every time a cop does their job (meaning a traffic stop, responding to a call etc) they could be in harms way and may be put in a situation where they are called upon to use force to defend themselves or someone else. We don't face that same kind of daily exposure so the odds of us shooting someone in self defense are much lower than that of a cops.

One of the major problems with law enforcement on a large scale is the pay and the quality of people they can get for it. The average cop makes about $25-$28 per hour (it can be a little more or less depending on the state or city). That is an average of around $58K per year before taxes. Considering the risk, the shit you have to put up with, the stress and potential downfall if things go wrong, it is no wonder many people aren't willing to do that job for that money.

If they really want the best people they are going to have to increase the pay and make changes to the system in order to get them or they are going to end up continuing to get many officers who are there for all the wrong reasons.

nobody becomes a cop for the pay. Certain types of people become cops, the same way certain types of people become nurses. The #1 problem with cops is the (90% of the time) type of person that wants to be one. Obviously though, society needs these people to be like that to become cops in the first place, so it's a trade-off.

Cameras would be a huge step forward, and could easily be funded if powers that be chose to do so. That's a whole other debate though so I won't go into that :)