RIP Kelly Thomas - Police Acquitted of Murder - GoFuckYourself.com

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 01-14-2014, 03:01 AM

Kelly Thomas, May 2002

Here is a 30+ minute surveillance video of the incident, with text added:

Quote:

SANTA ANA, Calif. (AP) ? By the time all four verdicts were read clearing two California officers of killing a homeless man, people on both sides of the gallery were sobbing.

Thomas, 37, died five days after a violent confrontation with six officers in July 2011. A surveillance camera at the busy transit center where the incident unfolded captured him screaming for his father again and again and begging for air as the police kneed him, jolted him with an electric stun gun and used the blunt end to strike him around the face and head.

It was a rare case in which police officers were charged in a death involving actions on duty. Jurors took less than two days to reach their verdicts.

Ramos, 39, was acquitted of second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter on Monday. Cicinelli, 41, was acquitted of involuntary manslaughter and excessive use of force.

Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckus, who tried the case himself, said after the verdicts that charges will be dropped against Joseph Wolfe, a third officer awaiting trial.

The FBI said that it will review the evidence to determine whether federal action is justified.

"With the conclusion of the state court trial, investigators will examine the evidence and testimony to determine whether further investigation is warranted at the federal level," said Laura Eimiller, the FBI's spokeswoman in Los Angeles.

Outside court, Thomas' parents condemned the verdicts.

"Just horrified," Cathy Thomas said. "He got away with murdering my son."

Ron Thomas said the verdict gave police "carte blanche" to brutalize people.

"All of us need to be very afraid now," he said. "Police officers everywhere can beat us, kill us, whatever they want, but it has been proven right here today they'll get away with it."

Ramos' attorney, John Barnett, said jurors did their duty.

"These peace officers were doing their jobs," he said. "They were operating as they were trained, and they had no malice in their hearts."

The defense said Thomas started the confrontation by refusing to heed police orders and was fighting officers so much that they called for backup multiple times. At one point, the lawyers said, Thomas tried to reach for Cicinelli's stun gun.

Ron Thomas has countered that his son suffered from schizophrenia and didn't understand the officers.

The video began with Ramos stopping Thomas on July 5, 2011, after the officer answered a call about a disheveled man jiggling the handles of car doors in a busy transit center parking lot.

Ramos grew frustrated with Thomas, who wasn't following orders to sit on a curb with his hands on his knees.

Just before the altercation began, Ramos snapped on plastic gloves, made two fists and then held them in front of Thomas' face as he said, "Now see these fists? They're going to fuck you up."

Cicinelli, who arrived a few moments later, jolted Thomas several times with an electric stun gun and used the butt end to hit Thomas in the head and face, breaking bones.

Thomas was taken off life support five days later.

A county pathologist concluded that Thomas died, in part, from asphyxiation caused by injuries he received during the confrontation.

Defense attorneys said Thomas suffered from an enlarged heart from drug abuse, and his exertions during the struggle were too much for him.

Thomas' death led to days of protests in Fullerton, forced the recall of three City Council members and led the police chief to step down.

Several dozen protesters gathered outside the courthouse after the verdict waving signs, and a similar size crowd gathered at the transit center where the struggle occurred later Monday night, but both demonstrations were peaceful and there were no reported arrests.

During the trial, the defense told jurors that Thomas was not a peaceful, helpless man. They said he had a history of drug use and was homeless because he had attacked members of his own family.

Cathy Thomas testified that he choked her for several minutes during an argument, and Thomas' grandfather said Thomas attacked him with a fireplace poker in 1995.

He did not have any drugs or alcohol in his system the night of the incident.

Only a handful of police officers nationwide have been charged with murder for actions taken while on duty, and convictions in those cases are rare, said Lawrence Rosenthal, a law professor at Chapman University School of Law and a former federal prosecutor.

Unless the prosecution can prove the officers falsified reports or covered up evidence, jurors are usually willing to acquit, he said.

"Police officers are very unusual kinds of defendants because ... they are seen as acting not in their own interests but acting to protect the public at large, the very people sitting on their jury," Rosenthal said.

Jurors are willing to forgive lapses in judgment rather than put an officer "in the cage with the same people that officer has spent his life arresting," he said.

Quote:

Kelly Thomas (April 5, 1974 ? July 10, 2011) was a homeless man diagnosed with schizophrenia who lived on the streets of Fullerton, California. He died five days after an altercation with members of the Fullerton Police Department on July 5, 2011.

Thomas was taken to St. Jude Medical Center before being transferred to the UC Irvine Medical Center, where he was comatose on arrival and not expected to recover. He never regained consciousness.

Medical records show that bones in his face were broken and he choked on his own blood. The coroner concluded that compression of the thorax made it impossible for Thomas to breathe normally and deprived his brain of oxygen. His parents removed him from life support five days later, and he died from his injuries on July 10, 2011.

Officer Manuel Ramos was charged with one count of second-degree murder and one count of involuntary manslaughter; Corporal Jay Cicinelli and Officer Joseph Wolfe were each charged with one count of felony involuntary manslaughter and one count of excessive force. All three pleaded not guilty.

A judge declined to dismiss the charges against the officers in January 2013, finding that "a reasonable person could infer that the use of force was excessive and unreasonable."

An appeals court judge also denied a request to overturn the lower court's decision. Ramos and Cicinelli were found not guilty of all charges, while the trial for Joe Wolfe was pending. Following the verdict for the two officers, the district attorney's office announced it would not continue to pursue the case.

Background

Kelly Thomas as he appeared in a 2009 booking photo released by Fullerton PD

Kelly Thomas was born April 5, 1974 to Ron Thomas, a former Orange County Sheriff's deputy, and Cathy Thomas.

Thomas, who was diagnosed with schizophrenia, was a "fixture" among Fullerton's homeless population. The death of Thomas has sparked debate about systemic reforms in treatment of the mentally ill.

Between 1990 and 2011, Thomas had 92 encounters with the police. These encounters ranged from minor infractions such as trespassing to assault with a deadly weapon.

The Incident

Kelly Thomas, after his encounter with officers of the Fullerton, California Police Department

On July 5, 2011, at about 8:30 PM, officers of the Fullerton Police Department responded to a call from the management of the Slidebar that someone was vandalizing cars near the Fullerton Transportation Center.

While investigating, they encountered the shirtless and disheveled Thomas and attempted to search him. According to statements given by the officers, Thomas was uncooperative and resisted when they attempted to search him, so backup was called.

Video footage, however, shows Thomas complying with Ramos' orders, and also reveals that Ramos gave Thomas unreasonable orders, seemingly intended to confuse the suspect.

The officers then threw him onto the ground and repeatedly applied Tasers to Thomas, beating him, kicking him, and sitting on his chest. They sporadically hit him with the butts of the Tasers and flashlights.

A video of the event surfaced, and Thomas can be heard repeatedly screaming in pain while officers are heard repeatedly asking him to place his arms behind his back. He audibly responds "Okay, I'm sorry!" and "I'm trying!" while the officers stretch his arm back.

The police officers claim that, unable to get Thomas to comply with the requests, they used a taser on him (up to five times according to a witness statement, and the video footage), and in the video Thomas can be heard screaming "Dad! Dad!".

Six officers were involved in subduing Thomas, who was unarmed and had a history of mental illness.

Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas gave a detailed account of the events during a press conference on September 21, 2011. Using digital audio recording devices carried by the officers, surveillance video from a pole camera at the Fullerton Transportation Center, and other evidence, Rackauckas provided evidence that Thomas did comply with orders from Officer Ramos, who had put on latex gloves and asked Thomas "Now see my fists? They are getting ready to fuck you up."

Rackauckas went on to describe how Thomas begged for his life, before being beaten to death.

Meanwhile funding to help homeless mentally disabled people is cut...

ADG

rogueteens · 01-14-2014, 03:51 AM

Isn't it strange that the family are so upset now but didn't seem to mind that he was homeless.
*Ka-ching*

NewNick · 01-14-2014, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueteens

Isn't it strange that the family are so upset now but didn't seem to mind that he was homeless.
*Ka-ching*

Idiot.

Why dont you stick to hating muslims.

Phoenix · 01-14-2014, 06:04 AM

how can they possibly get away with it?

Seems crazy to me...ill never understand how the police work

sperbonzo · 01-14-2014, 06:21 AM

...and meanwhile, this kind of thing is going on all over the place...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justic...a-teen-killed/

(CNN) -- Seventy seconds: That's how long a North Carolina family says it took for things to go horribly wrong as they sought police help dealing with their mentally ill son.

Keith Vidal, 18, died Sunday. According to CNN affiliate WECT, he was just shot 1 minute and 10 seconds after a third law enforcement officer showed up at his Brunswick County home.

The three officers all were from different jurisdictions, and family members say that the third officer -- who came from a nearby city -- turned what had been an improving situation into an unnecessarily aggressive encounter that ended in their son's death.

"There was no reason to shoot this kid," the teen's stepfather, Mark Wilsey, told WECT on Monday. "They killed my son in cold blood. We called for help, and they killed my son."

Although the state Bureau of Investigation is looking into the shooting, the chief prosecutor for the state's 13th Judicial District, which includes Brunswick County, says it's way too early to characterize what happened.

"I think that we can certainly understand why this family is upset right now," the Wilmington Star-News newspaper quoted District Attorney Jon David as saying. "They just lost a child, and certainly my thoughts and prayers are with them. But what they want from this office today is justice, and I intend to give them exactly that."
Photos: \'He was a good kid\' Photos: 'He was a good kid'
Cop shoots, kills mentally ill teen

CNN first learned of the shooting through an iReport sent by a family friend. The iReport received more than 50,000 views in 24 hours.

The incident happened Sunday afternoon when the mother and stepfather of the Boiling Spring Lakes man called police. According to stepbrother Mark Ryan Wilsey, Vidal had schizophrenia and "was having an episode," and his parents wanted police to subdue him so he could get help.

"He's not doing very good. You've got to get him someplace," a man who identified himself as Vidal's stepfather said on a 911 call, a copy of which was obtained by WECT. "He wants to fight his mother. ... She's scared to death of him right now."

The caller said that Vidal "won't take his medication" and that his family has had "to put him in before, (and) he's getting real bad again."

"He's just, he's not right," he said.

Two officers arrived and began talking with Vidal, according to CNN affiliate WWAY. The situation was relatively calm until a third officer -- a detective from the nearby city of Southport -- arrived, the family said.

"Everything was going good," Mark Wilsey said, according to WWAY. "Then this fat cop from Southport walks in the room, walks around the corner, says, 'We don't have time for this. Tase that kid now. Let's get him out of here.' "

The stepfather said Vidal tried to run but was struck with two Taser charges and fell backward. He said the first two officers to respond got on top of Vidal.

WECT attributed a slightly different accounting of events to Mark Wilsey. In that retelling, the stepfather said officers had pinned Vidal to the ground after he had been tased and one of the officers said, "We don't have time for this" and shot his stepson.

Seventy seconds after the third officer arrived, WECT reported, citing police records, police radioed that they had had to shoot the teenager in self-defense.

Mark Ryan Wilsey, who was not at the house but rushed there in an "absolute panic" and claimed that police restrained him, said his family is outraged by what happened and determined to get justice.

"We want the truth to be out there," he said. "We don't want the good ole cops system to play out something that ain't the truth."

Authorities have not released the exact sequence of events, including how and by whom Vidal was shot.

A Southport officer has been placed on paid administrative leave in connection with the shooting, Police Chief Jerry Dove said Tuesday. Authorities have declined to say whether he was the officer who shot Vidal.

The Brunswick County sheriff's deputy sent to the scene has been "cleared," office spokeswoman Emily Flax said. A review conducted by its Office of Professional Standards found that the deputy did not violate policy, Flax added.

Boiling Spring Lakes Police Chief Brad Shirley said the same thing Tuesday of that department's officer, who was the first to arrive on the scene. The department said in a statement that, after an "internal review," it concluded that the Boiling Spring Lakes police officer who responded did not violate department policy or state law.

Neither the district attorney nor the state Bureau of Investigation returned messages seeking comment Tuesday.

CNN iReporter Anthony Owens, whom Mark Ryan Wilsey described as a good friend of the family's, described Vidal as a slight young man who was never violent despite his mental illness.

"All he wanted to do was play drums," Owens said. "He was so awesome."

The late teen's stepbrother said he did everything with Vidal -- hunting, fishing, sports and more -- describing him as a "good kid."

"He was my little buddy," Mark Ryan Wilsey said.

Owens said the incident highlights the need for more understanding and awareness of mental illness.

"I was devastated by the news and am desperate to find some kind of good that could come from this horrible situation," Owens said.

Mark Ryan Wilsey offered a similar sentiment, saying his family hopes to start a foundation to help the mentally ill like Vidal.

"We're uniting together, and we're going to make this go public," he said of the family's collaboration with Owens. "Because the way my brother got treated ain't right."

.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 01-14-2014, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueteens

Isn't it strange that the family are so upset now but didn't seem to mind that he was homeless.
*Ka-ching*

Kelly Thomas' family repeatedly sought help for him.

Quote:

Learning Your Child Is Mentally Ill

Kelly Thomas was 37 years old and living on the streets of North Orange County when he died.

His father recalled his son's life as he sat on a bench at the Fullerton bus station just feet from an impromptu memorial of flowers, candles and balloons that marks the corner where Kelly received his fatal injuries,

Kelly was a drifter, his father said, spending time at favorite places on a circuit that took him from Cypress, where his father lived, to Placentia, Yorba Linda and Fullerton ? all familiar neighborhoods.

If it wasn't for the schizophrenia that developed in his early 20s, said Ron Thomas, his son could have lived with him or other family members or friends. But Kelly wouldn't allow that.
Before schizophrenia set in, Kelly Thomas lived with his father ? his parents divorced when he was young ? and wanted to be a firefighter. But little by little in ways family members at first didn't recognize as mental illness, Kelly Thomas began to change.
"You don't notice it," said Ron Thomas.

The first changes apparently were the kinds of things that could be associated with the ups and downs of maturing. His personal hygiene deteriorated, and he began spending more and more time away from home, supposedly with friends.

But then, said Ron Thomas, the family discovered "nobody knew where he was." Even that didn't seem to be a sign of mental illness.

But when Kelly Thomas informed his family he didn't want to sleep in a bed anymore and preferred the floor, Ron Thomas said "we knew we had a problem."

The family was able to get help for Kelly, including medication to control the schizophrenia. But the medications also made him feel tired all the time.

At one point, he moved to a Fullerton board and care home only blocks from the bus station. In that supervised environment, he took his medications on time and honored the home's curfew. "He'd get better," said his father.

But once he was feeling better, Kelly Thomas, like many adults under the power of serious mental illness, would say, "Dad, I don't need to take this medication anymore."
He didn't like the way it made him feel. And he'd say of the board and care home, "I don't need to be here."

"He would stay for months at a time at different board and care homes, and then it would be 'I've got to get on the road again' type of things," said his father.

"Kelly wasn't homeless at all. He had many homes he could have been at," said Ron Thomas. "He was a drifter. It's part of the schizophrenia. They want to get on the road again."

For the family, he said, dealing with a child with that form of mental illness is very difficult. Those who aren't familiar with schizophrenia or other causes of mental illness that cause homelessness don't understand what's going on.

"For friends and family," said Ron Thomas, "it's a constant, 24-7: 'Where is he at and what is he doing?'" But, he said, under the law, "unless he's a danger to himself or others or committing a crime, he's a free citizen over 21 years old."

What Now?

Since Kelly's death July 10, Ron Thomas has dedicated himself to discovering exactly what happened and why.

And he's going about it in exactly the way he was trained in the U.S. Army, at the Orange County Sheriff's Department and as an insurance investigator.

Using self-discipline and an unwavering focus on his goals, Ron Thomas says he already has provided witnesses to aid the district attorney's investigation. But he's far from finished. For example, he said, Bruce D. Praet, a lawyer working for the city, invited Kelly's parents to lunch and made a $900,000 settlement offer without specifying exactly what they were settling.

"The whole lunch was about nothing else but would we be open to settling out of court," said Ron Thomas. And then, his voice still quiet, he repeats what he said the lawyer told him: "Let's face it, Ron, Kelly was no rocket scientist."

Thomas rejected the settlement offer. But how did he react to that comment about his dead son? In a subsequent telephone conversation, Ron Thomas said he told the lawyer "how insensitive he was."

Praet didn't return a telephone call seeking comment.

The six officers who helped subdue Kelly Thomas have been put on administrative leave, but it took the police department weeks to do it.

The Los Angeles Times reported Wednesday that attorney Michael D. Schwartz, who represents the officers, said "no excessive force" was used and that Kelly Thomas was combative with officers. Witnesses have said officers used force when Kelly Thomas wasn't resisting.

As for Ron Thomas, he said he will continue his determined effort to obtain "justice for Kelly."

In the process, he said, he hopes the public will come to understand more about mental illness and its impact.

According to a variety of homelessness and mental health statistics, mental illness afflicts 20 percent to 40 percent of those who live on the streets.

Each Saturday from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m., Ron Thomas and supporters gather in front of the police department to protest Kelly Thomas' death.

Ron Thomas calls himself mentally disciplined. "I honestly feel the police came out not only to teach him [Kelly] a lessen but to drive the entire homeless population from the downtown Fullerton area. In other words, 'leave or you're next.'"

At the curbside memorial by the bus station, people continually walked to the memorial. Some brought flowers. Others stopped to look at pictures of Kelly Thomas and read notes and prayers left on the ground.

One of those who stopped and recognized Ron Thomas was retired San Bernardino Superior Court Judge Craig Kamansky, who lives in Brea and was in the area to pick up a relative.

"This just has a bad feeling to it," he said, referring to the circumstances surrounding Kelly Thomas' death.

Then, 21 years of judicial experience taking hold, he added, "without prejudging, without knowing. I hope the truth will come out."

ADG

brassmonkey · 01-14-2014, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueteens

Isn't it strange that the family are so upset now but didn't seem to mind that he was homeless.
*Ka-ching*

stfu

beerptrol · 01-14-2014, 11:59 AM

Nothing new! Cops have a license to murder

SuckOnThis · 01-14-2014, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueteens

Isn't it strange that the family are so upset now but didn't seem to mind that he was homeless.
*Ka-ching*

WTF is wrong with you?

hottoddy · 01-14-2014, 12:40 PM

We need to come up with a better alternative for violent schizophrenics. No matter how much you advocate for better health care of the homeless, this type of situation is going to happen. Often these folks continue to fight and resist until they become mortally harmed. Reasoning doesn't work, tazers don't work, so the final solution comes down to brute force. I wish they had a fullproof way to safely shut down someone's nervous system to preserve everyone's safety.

What's the alternative? The police can't simply back off or let them go and risk harm/death to others. As heartbreaking as it is, Kelly Thomas continued to kick and resist until the end - and he had that reputation in Fullerton. I'm not saying what happened was right in anyway, but these situations are a big shit sandwich for everyone.

brassmonkey · 01-14-2014, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

WTF is wrong with you?

he can't see that the homeless guy was mentally ill.

on the streets they can be alone.

Best-In-BC · 01-14-2014, 12:57 PM

yeah, the truth is, there is very few good people doing the beat

blackmonsters · 01-14-2014, 01:24 PM

Weird how I alone could have body slammed the dude and put him in cuffs without killing him but 5 cops can't.

SuckOnThis · 01-14-2014, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hottoddy

We need to come up with a better alternative for violent schizophrenics. No matter how much you advocate for better health care of the homeless, this type of situation is going to happen. Often these folks continue to fight and resist until they become mortally harmed. Reasoning doesn't work, tazers don't work, so the final solution comes down to brute force. I wish they had a fullproof way to safely shut down someone's nervous system to preserve everyone's safety.

What's the alternative? The police can't simply back off or let them go and risk harm/death to others. As heartbreaking as it is, Kelly Thomas continued to kick and resist until the end - and he had that reputation in Fullerton. I'm not saying what happened was right in anyway, but these situations are a big shit sandwich for everyone.

Screaming for his dad to help him until his last breath does not equate resisting. Even if he was fighting and kicking how hard is it for 6 cops to tie his hands and feet? Do people think punching and hitting someone continuously is going to make them stop? Guess so in this case. I get so damn tired of people defending murderous pigs doing this shit, no wonder they think they're above the law.

Vendzilla · 01-14-2014, 01:41 PM

Every run in I have ever had with cops piss me off

Last time I was pulled over because I left a bar. I told the cop that sitting outside a bar waiting to pull the first person for the bullshit he told me was a violation of my personal freedoms. He came back with the cops had a zero tolerance for drunk driving and started to give me a drunk test thru the door window. I told him to please arrest me, that pulling someone over because they didn't use their turn signal leaving an alley when no one was behind me was not going to stick. I also told him that next time I see cops parked across the street watching the bar, I was going to call my lawyer. He left me alone and I drove home. Most cops in LA are made into bullies, they have to serve for a year at the LA county lock ups to get an attitude and they have that!!

Sunny Day · 01-14-2014, 04:46 PM

2 local cops, who are cousins, both committed murder.
Cop 1 murdered a security guard, at a restaurant, outside the city limits, but in the same county, so he got a free pass. The security guard had tried to be a police officer, but the cop and other cops hazed him off the force.
Cop 2 got fired for beating up a stolen car suspect. Would have gotten away with it, but officers from 2 states and about 5 cities were witnesses. Also the TV show COPS was filming the chase and arrest. On the show, they show the car being stopped, it cuts to the suspect in cuffs with a bloody nose and t-shirt.

tony286 · 01-14-2014, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

...and meanwhile, this kind of thing is going on all over the place...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justic...a-teen-killed/

(CNN) -- Seventy seconds: That's how long a North Carolina family says it took for things to go horribly wrong as they sought police help dealing with their mentally ill son.

Keith Vidal, 18, died Sunday. According to CNN affiliate WECT, he was just shot 1 minute and 10 seconds after a third law enforcement officer showed up at his Brunswick County home.

The three officers all were from different jurisdictions, and family members say that the third officer -- who came from a nearby city -- turned what had been an improving situation into an unnecessarily aggressive encounter that ended in their son's death.

"There was no reason to shoot this kid," the teen's stepfather, Mark Wilsey, told WECT on Monday. "They killed my son in cold blood. We called for help, and they killed my son."

Although the state Bureau of Investigation is looking into the shooting, the chief prosecutor for the state's 13th Judicial District, which includes Brunswick County, says it's way too early to characterize what happened.

"I think that we can certainly understand why this family is upset right now," the Wilmington Star-News newspaper quoted District Attorney Jon David as saying. "They just lost a child, and certainly my thoughts and prayers are with them. But what they want from this office today is justice, and I intend to give them exactly that."
Photos: \'He was a good kid\' Photos: 'He was a good kid'
Cop shoots, kills mentally ill teen

CNN first learned of the shooting through an iReport sent by a family friend. The iReport received more than 50,000 views in 24 hours.

The incident happened Sunday afternoon when the mother and stepfather of the Boiling Spring Lakes man called police. According to stepbrother Mark Ryan Wilsey, Vidal had schizophrenia and "was having an episode," and his parents wanted police to subdue him so he could get help.

"He's not doing very good. You've got to get him someplace," a man who identified himself as Vidal's stepfather said on a 911 call, a copy of which was obtained by WECT. "He wants to fight his mother. ... She's scared to death of him right now."

The caller said that Vidal "won't take his medication" and that his family has had "to put him in before, (and) he's getting real bad again."

"He's just, he's not right," he said.

Two officers arrived and began talking with Vidal, according to CNN affiliate WWAY. The situation was relatively calm until a third officer -- a detective from the nearby city of Southport -- arrived, the family said.

"Everything was going good," Mark Wilsey said, according to WWAY. "Then this fat cop from Southport walks in the room, walks around the corner, says, 'We don't have time for this. Tase that kid now. Let's get him out of here.' "

The stepfather said Vidal tried to run but was struck with two Taser charges and fell backward. He said the first two officers to respond got on top of Vidal.

WECT attributed a slightly different accounting of events to Mark Wilsey. In that retelling, the stepfather said officers had pinned Vidal to the ground after he had been tased and one of the officers said, "We don't have time for this" and shot his stepson.

Seventy seconds after the third officer arrived, WECT reported, citing police records, police radioed that they had had to shoot the teenager in self-defense.

Mark Ryan Wilsey, who was not at the house but rushed there in an "absolute panic" and claimed that police restrained him, said his family is outraged by what happened and determined to get justice.

"We want the truth to be out there," he said. "We don't want the good ole cops system to play out something that ain't the truth."

Authorities have not released the exact sequence of events, including how and by whom Vidal was shot.

A Southport officer has been placed on paid administrative leave in connection with the shooting, Police Chief Jerry Dove said Tuesday. Authorities have declined to say whether he was the officer who shot Vidal.

The Brunswick County sheriff's deputy sent to the scene has been "cleared," office spokeswoman Emily Flax said. A review conducted by its Office of Professional Standards found that the deputy did not violate policy, Flax added.

Boiling Spring Lakes Police Chief Brad Shirley said the same thing Tuesday of that department's officer, who was the first to arrive on the scene. The department said in a statement that, after an "internal review," it concluded that the Boiling Spring Lakes police officer who responded did not violate department policy or state law.

Neither the district attorney nor the state Bureau of Investigation returned messages seeking comment Tuesday.

CNN iReporter Anthony Owens, whom Mark Ryan Wilsey described as a good friend of the family's, described Vidal as a slight young man who was never violent despite his mental illness.

"All he wanted to do was play drums," Owens said. "He was so awesome."

The late teen's stepbrother said he did everything with Vidal -- hunting, fishing, sports and more -- describing him as a "good kid."

"He was my little buddy," Mark Ryan Wilsey said.

Owens said the incident highlights the need for more understanding and awareness of mental illness.

"I was devastated by the news and am desperate to find some kind of good that could come from this horrible situation," Owens said.

Mark Ryan Wilsey offered a similar sentiment, saying his family hopes to start a foundation to help the mentally ill like Vidal.

"We're uniting together, and we're going to make this go public," he said of the family's collaboration with Owens. "Because the way my brother got treated ain't right."

.

this was very upsetting. lately it seems a badge=a get of out jail for free card. Its very fucking scary.

Rochard · 01-14-2014, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueteens

Isn't it strange that the family are so upset now but didn't seem to mind that he was homeless.
*Ka-ching*

If the man was homeless and suffered from schizophrenia, why wasn't the family doing something about this?

Rochard · 01-14-2014, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Every run in I have ever had with cops piss me off

Last time I was pulled over because I left a bar. I told the cop that sitting outside a bar waiting to pull the first person for the bullshit he told me was a violation of my personal freedoms. He came back with the cops had a zero tolerance for drunk driving and started to give me a drunk test thru the door window. I told him to please arrest me, that pulling someone over because they didn't use their turn signal leaving an alley when no one was behind me was not going to stick. I also told him that next time I see cops parked across the street watching the bar, I was going to call my lawyer. He left me alone and I drove home. Most cops in LA are made into bullies, they have to serve for a year at the LA county lock ups to get an attitude and they have that!!

The problem is not the cops, the problem is you.

You acted like a child, telling the police officer to arrest you and threatened to call your attorney.

L-Pink · 01-14-2014, 06:39 PM

The problem is modern day law enforcement is taught to hit hard, fast, and control the situation with force. How often could talking, obtaining facts then diffusing the situation work instead.

The "us" vs "them" mentality just gets worse.

pamon · 01-14-2014, 06:58 PM

Live here in orange county and it's a hot topic. Wow

brassmonkey · 01-14-2014, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

If the man was homeless and suffered from schizophrenia, why wasn't the family doing something about this?

if they are not violent you cant do shit

DTK · 01-14-2014, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Every run in I have ever had with cops piss me off

Last time I was pulled over because I left a bar. I told the cop that sitting outside a bar waiting to pull the first person for the bullshit he told me was a violation of my personal freedoms. He came back with the cops had a zero tolerance for drunk driving and started to give me a drunk test thru the door window. I told him to please arrest me, that pulling someone over because they didn't use their turn signal leaving an alley when no one was behind me was not going to stick. I also told him that next time I see cops parked across the street watching the bar, I was going to call my lawyer. He left me alone and I drove home. Most cops in LA are made into bullies, they have to serve for a year at the LA county lock ups to get an attitude and they have that!!

Well played

DTK · 01-14-2014, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueteens

Isn't it strange that the family are so upset now but didn't seem to mind that he was homeless.
*Ka-ching*

Asshole.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 01-14-2014, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

If the man was homeless and suffered from schizophrenia, why wasn't the family doing something about this?

Having an adult committed to a mental institution against their will is harder than you might imagine. Add schizophrenia to the mix, where a person is psychotic and irrational to begin with, and you have a prescription for problems.

Deinstitutionalization has been good for many people, however lacking proper community supervision and support, many mentally ill people become victimized (violently/sexually), or refuse help.

Quote:

A large proportion of people with mental disorders become homeless or go to prison. Families can often play a crucial role in the care of those who would typically be placed in long-term treatment centers.

However, many mentally ill people are resistant to such help due to the nature of their conditions. The majority of those who would be under continuous care in long-stay psychiatric hospitals are paranoid and delusional to the point that they refuse help, believing they do not need it, which makes it difficult to treat them.

NOTE: Kelly Thomas' father is a former Sheriff's Deputy. Ron Thomas was a cop himself for six years before going into the construction business. His father was a cop for 22 years. His grandfather was a career cop with the LAPD.

ADG

DBS.US · 01-14-2014, 10:04 PM

Here is how it all started>>>>>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1594253.html
http://www.slidebarfullerton.com/

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 01-14-2014, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

If the man was homeless and suffered from schizophrenia, why wasn't the family doing something about this?

While I had heard that Thomas' family had tried to get him help, your question made me look into this more.

Quote:

Kelly Thomas' Father Fights for Justice

Ron Thomas, a former cop, can't understand why his mentally ill son became the victim of a violent confrontation with Fullerton police. He won't rest until he finds answers.

Ron Thomas, a former Orange County sheriff's deputy, had been expecting such a call for years. He had learned some painful lessons as the parent of someone with a serious mental illness. He knew his son's schizophrenia could be controlled at times but that it wasn't going to go away, ever. And he knew that no amount of love for Kelly could save him.

When Ron Thomas got to St. Jude Hospital in Fullerton that morning in early July, he was stunned by his son's appearance. His face and head were horribly disfigured from a beating.

"I was speechless."

Thomas wanted desperately for the Fullerton police to round up whoever had done this to Kelly.

Who would harm a 37-year-old red-haired, guitar-playing man who was clearly troubled? He'd been arrested for assault with a deadly weapon when the illness first raged at 22, but his other police contacts were for minor infractions, Thomas said.

He was a mild-mannered drifter, not a hardened criminal. From the looks of the grotesque injuries, Thomas figured it must have been street toughs who went after his son, getting their kicks by smashing his head in with a baseball bat.

But the truth was even harder for him to accept. This had happened at the hands of the police, with as many as six officers taking down his apparently unarmed son, who couldn't have weighed more than 135 pounds, according to the father.

"I don't understand that," he says now, a month after his son died following five days in a coma.

Ron Thomas was a cop himself for six years before going into the construction business. His father was a cop for 22 years. His grandfather was a career cop with the LAPD.

"Police have been a positive aspect of Kelly's life," said Thomas, who has spent the last several weeks investigating the case as if he were back in uniform.

He's seen the videos that show a portion of the altercation. The electric zap of the cops' stun guns can be heard, as can what sounds like Kelly calling out to his father for help.

"Dad, Dad, Dad!"

"It tears me up," said Ron Thomas, who raised Kelly on his own for several years after a divorce.

He's seen and heard the eyewitness accounts, he's gone to the police chief to demand an explanation, and all he's gotten is the claim that after a report of vehicle break-ins, the police came upon his son, who resisted arrest, fought back and was subdued. Six officers, meanwhile, have been placed on administrative leave.

Ron Thomas' conclusion:

"It's murder, absolutely."

He believes police knew his son, a somewhat familiar street person, and had to know of his illness. If the cops had no training for dealing with a mentally ill person, that's unforgivable, Thomas said. If they had training, they must have ignored it. And he sees no reason why it would take so many officers, or so many blows to the head, to control his son.

It's likely to be a while before there's a full accounting. In the meantime, it's understandable that Kelly's father, who still hears his son calling his name, can't sit still.

When we met for lunch in Orange on Thursday, Thomas told me there were nights over the years when he would get a call from friends or relatives who had spotted Kelly in a park or under an overpass. Thomas would get into his Chevy Tahoe, with its Vietnam vet license plate, and go retrieve his son.

"How you doin', Kelly," he recalls saying on more than one occasion. "You wanna come home?"

Kelly was better when he was on medication, Ron Thomas said. "But it's not like taking aspirin for a headache," he said.

No, I agreed, speaking from my own experience in a seven-year friendship with a man who has schizophrenia. Lots of people are helped ? saved, even ? by meds. But others resist, fearing the side effects or the attempts to control them.

Even for those who agree to take meds, it takes a while to find the right one at the right dose, and when you get all that figured out, the patient might conclude everything's fine and stop taking the medicine.

"That was Kelly," said Ron Thomas. "It's a vicious circle."

The cycle began when Kelly was 22 and landed in jail on some minor offense. A deputy called Thomas and said he thought his son needed medical attention, not criminal detention. Kelly was in and out of board and care homes over the years, better for a while, then drifting again.

In a more perfect world, there'd be more mental health outreach workers who go into the streets and steer clients back to supportive housing programs, where they can get the counseling and other help they need. Families can do only so much, and desperately need backup.

But such services are in decline in Orange County, and elsewhere, because of budget cuts that Superior Court Judge Wendy Lindley called tragic and short-sighted. Her mental health courts have diverted clients into recovery rather than churning them through jails, hospitals and prisons at great cost to the public, but she can reach only a tiny percentage of those in need.

"I have fewer places to send them, I have more difficulty obtaining housing for them, I have more difficulty obtaining resources for medication and medical needs and more difficulty finding appropriate counseling and therapy," Lindley said. "Everything is impacted."

Thomas said he may sue, and if he were to win a lawsuit, he'd use some of the money to start or support a program that can help people like his son.

"They're people," he said. "They're human beings."

Quote:

More Lessons from Kelly Thomas?s Beating Death

In the weeks since the unconscionable beating death of Kelly Thomas by six Fullerton, California, police officers, personal accounts from Kelly?s parents and news reports based on official court records have detailed a personal and family odyssey that is heartbreaking and devastatingly familiar.

Kelly Thomas was ill enough that over the past decade he was deemed ?gravely disabled,? and conservatorship was assumed at various times by the court and by his father. His own mother once felt compelled to obtain a restraining order ? hoping it would lead to treatment for her son.

Among the lessons of this tragedy is its reminder that victims of violent episodes stemming from untreated severe mental illness are very often the victims of illness themselves. Our Preventable Tragedies Database only scratches the surface of violent deaths that shouldn?t have occurred, but it currently contains nearly 900 reports of individuals with mental illness being killed or injured by police officers.

Also too often lost in the sensationalism of reporting violent acts by the mentally ill is the high incidence of self-violence they commit. Suicide is the number one cause of premature death among people with schizophrenia; an estimated 10 percent to 13 percent of those with the disease eventually kill themselves.

Partly as a result, the life expectancy of those with severe mental illness is 25 years less than the general population?s in this country.

Events like the mass murders at Virginia Tech and the January shootings in Tucson rightfully raise awareness that anyone can become a victim of with untreated mental illness.

Our hope is that Kelly Thomas?s death also raises awareness that people with untreated severe mental illness are dying far too young everywhere, every day - and they will continue doing so unless they get the treatment they need. Orange County - and the rest of the country - needs better mental health laws and policies if this is ever to change.

The desperate pleas of Kelly Thomas are haunting:

Quote:

SANTA ANA ? Mentally ill transient Kelly Thomas died of asphyxia caused during a beating at the hands of Fullerton police officers at the Transportation Center in July, District Attorney Tony Rackauckas said Wednesday during a news conference at his office.

The coroner's death certificate lists the manner of death as homicide and the cause of death as asphyxia caused by "mechanical chest compression with blunt cranial-facial injuries sustained during physical altercation with law enforcement."

The district attorney said Thomas died because of the force of the officers on his chest, which made it impossible to breathe. Thomas fell unconscious, then slipped into a coma and died when taken off of life support five days later. The injuries to his face and his head, Rackauckas said, contributed to his death.

Also contributing to his death were brain injuries, facial and rib fractures, and the extensive bruising and abrasions he suffered during the beating, which left him lying in a "growing pool of blood," Rackauckas said.

The toxicology report shows that Thomas had no illicit drugs or alcohol in his system.
Thomas was severely bleeding and struggled and pleaded, "I can't breathe," "Dad, help me." But the officers did not reduce their level of force during the nearly 10-minute assault, the district attorney said.

"It's hard to watch and to listen to," Rackauckas said about the surveillance and cell-phone video and audio that captured the bloody beating. "He (Thomas) seems to know it's over just before it is."

I don't know how those (ex)-cops sleep at night.

ADG

Phoenix · 01-16-2014, 12:02 AM

Matyko · 01-16-2014, 12:26 AM

Losing my remaining faith in humanity...

Meanwhile, in our little country [Hungary, EU] the government made laws against homeless people, and it is officially a misdemeanor and if policemen find a homeless guy sleeping on a bench he needs to pay a fine... So the system is abusing the homeless ppl instead of finding a solution.. Its a Shame

(((

BFT3K · 01-16-2014, 09:40 AM

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 01-16-2014, 12:17 PM

ADG

Deej · 01-16-2014, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

The problem is not the cops, the problem is you.

You acted like a child, telling the police officer to arrest you and threatened to call your attorney.

While I know you dont like Vend... but, seriously?

I wouldnt have gone and told the guy to arrest me but it most certainly is a violation of rights to do what that cop did.

Can be seen as entrapment. Cops are supposed to seek out actual crimes, not speculate on potential crimes.

On another note. I think bars having parking lots is a crock of shit! No one should be able to drive to nor from a bar. If anyone drinks and drives they are irresponsible Pieces of Shit! EEEESSPEcially if they think its ok.

01-14-2014, 03:51 AM	#2
rogueteens So fucking bland Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: England Posts: 8,005	Isn't it strange that the family are so upset now but didn't seem to mind that he was homeless. Ka-ching __________________ Free traffic and backlinks from one of the fastest growing adult pinsites on the net - SAUCY PICTURES! Easily my best performing webcam sponsor - CLICK HERE!!

01-14-2014, 06:04 AM	#4
Phoenix BACON BACON BACON Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poems everybody, the laddie fancies himself a poet Posts: 35,469	how can they possibly get away with it? Seems crazy to me...ill never understand how the police work __________________ Skype Phoenixskype1 Telegram PhoenixBrad https://quantads.io

01-14-2014, 06:21 AM	#5
sperbonzo I'd rather be on my boat. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 9,748	...and meanwhile, this kind of thing is going on all over the place... http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justic...a-teen-killed/ (CNN) -- Seventy seconds: That's how long a North Carolina family says it took for things to go horribly wrong as they sought police help dealing with their mentally ill son. Keith Vidal, 18, died Sunday. According to CNN affiliate WECT, he was just shot 1 minute and 10 seconds after a third law enforcement officer showed up at his Brunswick County home. The three officers all were from different jurisdictions, and family members say that the third officer -- who came from a nearby city -- turned what had been an improving situation into an unnecessarily aggressive encounter that ended in their son's death. "There was no reason to shoot this kid," the teen's stepfather, Mark Wilsey, told WECT on Monday. "They killed my son in cold blood. We called for help, and they killed my son." Although the state Bureau of Investigation is looking into the shooting, the chief prosecutor for the state's 13th Judicial District, which includes Brunswick County, says it's way too early to characterize what happened. "I think that we can certainly understand why this family is upset right now," the Wilmington Star-News newspaper quoted District Attorney Jon David as saying. "They just lost a child, and certainly my thoughts and prayers are with them. But what they want from this office today is justice, and I intend to give them exactly that." Photos: \'He was a good kid\' Photos: 'He was a good kid' Cop shoots, kills mentally ill teen CNN first learned of the shooting through an iReport sent by a family friend. The iReport received more than 50,000 views in 24 hours. The incident happened Sunday afternoon when the mother and stepfather of the Boiling Spring Lakes man called police. According to stepbrother Mark Ryan Wilsey, Vidal had schizophrenia and "was having an episode," and his parents wanted police to subdue him so he could get help. "He's not doing very good. You've got to get him someplace," a man who identified himself as Vidal's stepfather said on a 911 call, a copy of which was obtained by WECT. "He wants to fight his mother. ... She's scared to death of him right now." The caller said that Vidal "won't take his medication" and that his family has had "to put him in before, (and) he's getting real bad again." "He's just, he's not right," he said. Two officers arrived and began talking with Vidal, according to CNN affiliate WWAY. The situation was relatively calm until a third officer -- a detective from the nearby city of Southport -- arrived, the family said. "Everything was going good," Mark Wilsey said, according to WWAY. "Then this fat cop from Southport walks in the room, walks around the corner, says, 'We don't have time for this. Tase that kid now. Let's get him out of here.' " The stepfather said Vidal tried to run but was struck with two Taser charges and fell backward. He said the first two officers to respond got on top of Vidal. WECT attributed a slightly different accounting of events to Mark Wilsey. In that retelling, the stepfather said officers had pinned Vidal to the ground after he had been tased and one of the officers said, "We don't have time for this" and shot his stepson. Seventy seconds after the third officer arrived, WECT reported, citing police records, police radioed that they had had to shoot the teenager in self-defense. Mark Ryan Wilsey, who was not at the house but rushed there in an "absolute panic" and claimed that police restrained him, said his family is outraged by what happened and determined to get justice. "We want the truth to be out there," he said. "We don't want the good ole cops system to play out something that ain't the truth." Authorities have not released the exact sequence of events, including how and by whom Vidal was shot. A Southport officer has been placed on paid administrative leave in connection with the shooting, Police Chief Jerry Dove said Tuesday. Authorities have declined to say whether he was the officer who shot Vidal. The Brunswick County sheriff's deputy sent to the scene has been "cleared," office spokeswoman Emily Flax said. A review conducted by its Office of Professional Standards found that the deputy did not violate policy, Flax added. Boiling Spring Lakes Police Chief Brad Shirley said the same thing Tuesday of that department's officer, who was the first to arrive on the scene. The department said in a statement that, after an "internal review," it concluded that the Boiling Spring Lakes police officer who responded did not violate department policy or state law. Neither the district attorney nor the state Bureau of Investigation returned messages seeking comment Tuesday. CNN iReporter Anthony Owens, whom Mark Ryan Wilsey described as a good friend of the family's, described Vidal as a slight young man who was never violent despite his mental illness. "All he wanted to do was play drums," Owens said. "He was so awesome." The late teen's stepbrother said he did everything with Vidal -- hunting, fishing, sports and more -- describing him as a "good kid." "He was my little buddy," Mark Ryan Wilsey said. Owens said the incident highlights the need for more understanding and awareness of mental illness. "I was devastated by the news and am desperate to find some kind of good that could come from this horrible situation," Owens said. Mark Ryan Wilsey offered a similar sentiment, saying his family hopes to start a foundation to help the mentally ill like Vidal. "We're uniting together, and we're going to make this go public," he said of the family's collaboration with Owens. "Because the way my brother got treated ain't right." . __________________ Michael Sperber / Acella Financial LLC/ Online Payment Processing [email protected] / http://Acellafinancial.com/ ICQ 177961090 / Tel +1 909 NET BILL / Skype msperber

01-14-2014, 12:40 PM	#10
hottoddy Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: PacNorWest Posts: 3,049	We need to come up with a better alternative for violent schizophrenics. No matter how much you advocate for better health care of the homeless, this type of situation is going to happen. Often these folks continue to fight and resist until they become mortally harmed. Reasoning doesn't work, tazers don't work, so the final solution comes down to brute force. I wish they had a fullproof way to safely shut down someone's nervous system to preserve everyone's safety. What's the alternative? The police can't simply back off or let them go and risk harm/death to others. As heartbreaking as it is, Kelly Thomas continued to kick and resist until the end - and he had that reputation in Fullerton. I'm not saying what happened was right in anyway, but these situations are a big shit sandwich for everyone. __________________ - *** -

01-14-2014, 12:57 PM	#12
Best-In-BC Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 9,506	yeah, the truth is, there is very few good people doing the beat __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More Unparked domains burning a hole in your pocket? 5 Simple Ways to Make Easy $$$ from Unused Domains

01-14-2014, 11:59 AM	#8
beerptrol Confirmed Asshole Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Half way between sobriety and fubar. Posts: 12,722	Nothing new! Cops have a license to murder

01-14-2014, 01:24 PM	#13
blackmonsters Making PHP work Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: 🌎🌅🌈🌇 Posts: 20,753	Weird how I alone could have body slammed the dude and put him in cuffs without killing him but 5 cops can't. __________________ Get paid, get tools, get going with Camsoda Join Chaturbate get your cut of the pie

01-14-2014, 01:41 PM	#15
Vendzilla Biker Gnome Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cell#324 Posts: 23,200	Every run in I have ever had with cops piss me off Last time I was pulled over because I left a bar. I told the cop that sitting outside a bar waiting to pull the first person for the bullshit he told me was a violation of my personal freedoms. He came back with the cops had a zero tolerance for drunk driving and started to give me a drunk test thru the door window. I told him to please arrest me, that pulling someone over because they didn't use their turn signal leaving an alley when no one was behind me was not going to stick. I also told him that next time I see cops parked across the street watching the bar, I was going to call my lawyer. He left me alone and I drove home. Most cops in LA are made into bullies, they have to serve for a year at the LA county lock ups to get an attitude and they have that!! __________________ Webair died? Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants think about that

01-14-2014, 04:46 PM	#16
Sunny Day Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,406	Cops & Murder 2 local cops, who are cousins, both committed murder. Cop 1 murdered a security guard, at a restaurant, outside the city limits, but in the same county, so he got a free pass. The security guard had tried to be a police officer, but the cop and other cops hazed him off the force. Cop 2 got fired for beating up a stolen car suspect. Would have gotten away with it, but officers from 2 states and about 5 cities were witnesses. Also the TV show COPS was filming the chase and arrest. On the show, they show the car being stopped, it cuts to the suspect in cuffs with a bloody nose and t-shirt.

01-14-2014, 06:39 PM	#20
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,151	The problem is modern day law enforcement is taught to hit hard, fast, and control the situation with force. How often could talking, obtaining facts then diffusing the situation work instead. The "us" vs "them" mentality just gets worse.

01-14-2014, 06:58 PM	#21
pamon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,112	Live here in orange county and it's a hot topic. Wow __________________ Email: [email protected] TG: Davidamodt US Adult Content & Porn Writer Project/Sites/Tubes/Reviews & More

01-14-2014, 10:04 PM	#26
DBS.US Geo Cities Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: North Captiva Island, Florida USA Posts: 11,835	Here is how it all started>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1594253.html http://www.slidebarfullerton.com/ __________________ Make a Free Chaturbate White Label site in 34 minutes and be making money tonight

01-16-2014, 12:02 AM	#28
Phoenix BACON BACON BACON Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poems everybody, the laddie fancies himself a poet Posts: 35,469	__________________ Skype Phoenixskype1 Telegram PhoenixBrad https://quantads.io

01-16-2014, 12:26 AM	#29
Matyko PsyHead Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 8,674	Losing my remaining faith in humanity... Meanwhile, in our little country [Hungary, EU] the government made laws against homeless people, and it is officially a misdemeanor and if policemen find a homeless guy sleeping on a bench he needs to pay a fine... So the system is abusing the homeless ppl instead of finding a solution.. Its a Shame ((( __________________ -=- Register with our ref link and we help you with the setup! -=- AdSpyglass.com - Double your profit from brokers

01-16-2014, 09:40 AM	#30
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764

01-16-2014, 12:17 PM	#31
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	ADG __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)