JeremySF

Much of the touted rationale for going to war against Iraq is laughable. Personally, there's a lot of other countries I see as a greater threat to the west than Iraq. Iraq is secular. Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, et al, are not.

However....The bottom line is that:

After losing the 1991 Persian Gulf War, Iraq promised to destroy its weapons of "mass destruction." The inspectors' job is to make sure Iraq keeps its word. Over the past 13 years, Saddam has been playing a cat-and-mouse game with the inspectors and the world, even expelling inspectors. If he really has nothing to hide wouldn't it make sense for him to open his kimino, cooperate and allow inspections to go on unobstructed? Wouldn't it be in his interest to once and for all prove he doesn't have WMDs by offering his full cooperation?

If inspections haven't worked for 13 years, what makes us think they'll work now? How long should we allow this cat and mouse game to go on? If force isn't the answer, than what is?

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Libertine

I just want bang bang bang!

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escorpio

Paint the sand RED for Jesus.

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ChrisH

Which is why they'll make a great democracy. It's a building block, many of the other kingdoms fear a democratic Iraq.

I wonder why??

JeremySF

I'd like to also hear from some peepz who voice vehement opposition to using force in Iraq. The doves are eloquent in finding reasons why we shouldn't use force, but I've heard no cogent alternative. What is a viable alternative to force given 13 years of off and on inspections not working.


????

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dav555add

What is *your* solution for dealing with Iraq?

CARPET BOMBING

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PerfectionGirls

We have a lot more serious problems in the counrty. We could stomp Iraq in three hours if they every got out of line.

Meanwhile... the emonomy is going to hell in a handbasket all due to the unrest our goverment is creating right now.

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JeremySF

So let me make sure I understand your position: ignore the problem?

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GoGoBar

You won't hear from them becuase they have no alternatives. All they like to do is state what we souldn't do and what they end result should be (ousting Sadam without force). They never give the details of how to get there, they just state where they would like to be.

<IMX>

More appropriately the ostrich solution.

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dig420

Saddam is nothing, he's not relevant to the United States or any of it's problems. We have no business being there. He is a whipping boy for the last three Presidents and is being used as a distraction from our own problems.

Our army needs to pull the fuck out of the desert and create a democracy in Florida, site of the American coup d' etat

as far as everyone who equates warmongering and jingoism with being a good american, you're nothing new.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."

1918 Teddy Roosevelt

XXXManager

Part of the reason your country's economy is in deep shit is the insecurity of the world. Investors do not want to invest in an economy that can be toppled down by planes or chimical and biological agents or worse.
Iraq is part of that problem - like it or not.
9/11 had a devastating effect on the world's economy and saying/thinking 9/11 and terrorism as a whole has nothing to do with Iraq (and as noted Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, N.Korea and others) is not right.
As to Iraq maybe not the biggest threat, even if that is right, who said the right strategy must be one where you start with the biggest threat? Maybe its better to start weeding the surroundings before attacking the main evil? maybe its better to show the bigger therats that its better to change their ways by proving the motivations on the easier (but still bad enough targets)
I personally think that Iraq is indeed more dangerous in some aspects (regime wise) but less in others (the people there are more educated and even if muslim, the younger generation is looking for a change even though not in the form of full democracy which does not work well in a muslim society)

[Labret]

Did dig pull the crayon from his nose?

JeremySF

Again...solution???


Solution:
"Our army needs to pull the fuck out of the desert..." = do nothing...ignore the problem...

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---------------------------------------------

XXXManager

Stop reciting 12y/o demonstrators.
Have you read intelligence reports about Saddam?
Have you read the history of the middle-east and the power/threat saddam has over his neighbors?
Do you know the effect that the middle-east has on the American economy?
Did you hear about the issue of terrorism? Did you hear about 9/11?
Maybe you should think first and then decide if the US really has nothing to do there and if "Saddam is nothing" and "not relevant"?

<IMX>

The issue of terrorism has brought about a need for a cohesive long-term strategy for the Middle East.

That includes Syria, Israel (yes Israel), Libya, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran.

Guess where we are setting up our next base of operations for the next 50 years?

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NoCarrier

Let's stop this lobbying shit about war and oil and future $$$ and smoke some iraqi weed together.

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dig420

Saddam has NOTHING TO DO WITH US!! He had NOTHING to do with 9-11 and we STILL don't have Bin Laden in custody.

you might as well be wringing your hands and demanding to go to war with Zaire. 'oh oh what's he's doing to his poor people, oh boo fucking hoo hoo'

we don't care about his people. we're there for oil. if you want to swap american blood and billions of american tax for cheap oil in the near future, fine. I don't agree with it, but at least you're not deluding yourself.

XXXManager

Yep. Israel has alot of palestinian terrorists in it. Also many of them are paid by Iraq and Iran, backed by Syria and come from Lebannon. Some infiltrate from Egypt and jordan. I understand what you mean what you say "yes, Israel" now.
Just ask yourself Mr. where you get alot of the so precious intelligence reports that keep your life so safe and warm infront of the keyboard.
Let me guess...
Israel, Jordan, Turkey Kuwait, Saudi-arabia(though this one not for long).. Thats what you meant?

dig420

what's the solution for China, Jeremy, what's the solution for Zimbabwe? who the fuck cares?

I'm more interested in the solution for our flagging economy and stopping the rise of the police state. I'm far more interested in keeping my 4th Amendment right to privacy and making sure there's still a democracy in my OWN country for my kids to grow up in (if I ever have any).

all you super patriots who just can't wait to give up all your individual rights to the government make me want to retch.

JeremySF

And what would comprise that cohesive long-term strategy?

A cohesive long-term strategy might be:

1) Topple mideastern dictator i.e. Saddam
2) Liberate and democratize already secular mideast nation i.e. Iraq
3) Establish Iraq as model for mideast democracy

Chances for this to work in Iraq are far more likely than nearly any other mideastern country b/c it is a secular nation, with an infrastructure, natural resources (yes, oil), and substantial literate and intellectual class.

After the Persian Gulf war, something like 21 out of 24 Iraqi provinces revolted (at U.S. urging), only to ultimately be crushed by Saddam thanks to us not supporting the uprising.

Historically, most of the angst in the middle east was directed against the peoples' own governments and leaders. Since the 70s this has turned increasingly against the west since we've supported many of these authoritarian regimes. It's about time we truly brought reform to the middle east, and unfortunately appeasement will not often work.

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XXXManager

I see your a real expert about international terrorism and economics!
Lets try explaining things in terms you relate to:
You do porn stuff. for money right? meaning you want people to pay for the things you do or promote. right? You want these people to take out money they have and give it to you. right?
So you need them to have enough money so they can spare some on online porn - right?
So you need them to earn some. right? so they need a job. true?For that they need a stable economy and personal safety. see? For that they need not only the temporary illusion of safety. you know what I mean? Cause for companies and factories and export and import you need some degree of safety. see?

Can you now see how "Saddam has SOMETHING TO DO WITH YOU???" or not yet?

XXXManager

I'll tell you who cares: The people who make sure you can sit home selling porn and bitching abou stuff you do not know enough about.

dig420

It's about time we truly brought reform to the middle east, and unfortunately appeasement will not often work.
------------

yep, syria, saudi arabia, iraq, iran, kuwait, oman, they're really going to appreciate us bombing the shit out of them and starving them to bring democracy to them. They'll be BIG FUCKING FANS!!!

XXXManager

Thats too far fetched man
But the direction you are at is correct.
(PS. There is already one, single, isolated democracy in the middleeast btw but n/m that now..)

XXXManager

First you have no plans to bomb kuwait and saudi arabia. for now you also have no plans regarding syria, iran and the others.
You start with Iraq, maybe the others will be dealt with another way.
Second - you are misinformed. People of Iraq are already starving. Maybe they will appriciate like the people in Afghanistan some freedom and maybe a hope for future with some food involved
Third - Why do you care about them being or not being fans of yours whe most of them are your enemies at the moment anyway?
Do you read what I write? Do you check your facts? Do some stufy about the region and the politics of the middleeast first.

dig420

For that they need a stable economy and personal safety. see?
-=-------------

free clue for you, XXX:

Saddam has NOTHING to do with our economy and personal safety, and invading foreign nations for no reason is going to MAKE many more enemies than we can kill. You think we can just nuke the entire middle east out of existence? Kill every Muslim in the world?

you wanna talk about Saddam taking away my right to make porn? who do you think is more likely to care about me making porn, Saddam Hussein and Yassir Arafat or George Bush and John Ashhahahahaha? who is the REAL threat to my freedom?

what's more likely to undermine confidence in our economy: the existence of a mustachioed dictator on the other side of the world who can't even feed his people or the worldwide perception that our government is run by a moron with imperialistic leanings?

dig420

Third - Why do you care about them being or not being fans of yours whe most of them are your enemies at the moment anyway?
---------------------

here's why:

Tipsy

The solution is so obvious. BIG drops of good qualtity marijuana throughout Iraq. If more of the US politicians smoked it too no more war!

XXXManager

You need to relax and think before you post.
You don't know much about economy - other wise you would have realized the effects of Saddam and the ME on US and world economy.
You don't know much about security/threats/terror otherwise you would understand the threat Saddam, the ME and other insane regimes have over you.
You don't know much about politics or the ME or Iraq - otherwise you would not state this useless remark about a "poor dictator that can't feed his people"
You basically don't know enough about the situation to form a "defendable" coherent opinion. Thats the problems with most protestors.
You have a clear opinion which is based on lack of knowladge. You will learn in time that you were wrong about alot of the assumptions you have. Fortnatelly until then - people who knows more than you will call the shots regardless of your misguided and unfocused objection.

I value their activism and practice of democracy and embrace it. That does not mean I have to like it or agree with it.

XXXManager

If anything - that proves my point rather than yours.
Some threats hit you in the face even if you DON'T "run around bombing countries".

dig420

XXX, when you learn how to spell, go look up 'fascism' in the dictionary. after that, you can read up on Vietnam, and then go look at pictures of Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden and verify that they are two different people with completely opposite and diametrically opposed ideologies.

THEN you can come back here and tell me how stupid I am.

JeremySF

People thought it was far-fetched that the free market would make it to Eastern Europe. Difficult? Yes. Impossible? No. Because infrastructure, academia, resources already exist in Iraq, it will likely prove far easier than Afghanistan to sustain post-war.

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---------------------------------------------

XXXManager

When you learn to speak and write in Hebrew as wekk as I do with english I will pay attention to you.
Only dumbass would divert a discussion he realized he has nothing to say or contribute to - to irellevant issues like language and spelling.

PerfectionGirls

EXACTLY!!

He is not even close to being a threat to us at all. Not even for a minute.


Why not? We seem to be ignoring our problems here at home. The weaking of the dollar.. The stock market, which hangs on every new report. The sky rocketing fuel cost. Our personal freedoms being sucked away by the very goverement that we elect to protect our freedoms.

Most all of this is due the the uncertainty our goverement is creating regarding the Iraq issue.

I voted for the cowboy and I have voted in every election for the republican party since 1981. My political views are changing every day that man stays in office.

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XXXManager

I actually meant that its far-fetched thinking it will become THE model for a democracy in the middle-east. Even if Iraq turns into a participatory regime it will be far from a role model for a democracy. There is a big problem to combine Islam and Democracy. If anything, there probably should be a new kind of governing model - atleast at first until "popular" Islam modifies and updates itself for the modern times.

dig420

ANOTHER free clue for you:

America attacking the Middle East is the worst thing that could happen for Israel, there will NEVER be peace for you. Instead we'll create so much enmity that it'll take generations to dissipate and Israel will bear the brunt of it. The only way to have peace in the Middle East is for Israel to continue the process it has already begun, becoming the most important trading partner in the region and becoming indispensable to the regional economy. $$ talks.

The last thing Israel needs is more hatred from Muslims and the U.S. giving them a REAL reason to attack you.

XXXManager

MUHAHAHAHA. You dont see how funny what you are saying is?

dig420

XXXManager, you haven't made a single point that hasn't been shot to pieces, and you keep telling everybody else they're stupid.

have you been reading this thread while you're posting in it?

JeremySF

True...

Also, I should clarify. There aleady is a model for democracy in the middle east: it's called Israel. But, it will be a long time before Israel's western-style democracy could exist in a muslim country. I'm thinking more along the lines of Turkey, but more democratic.

__________________
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---------------------------------------------

XXXManager

ANOTHER free clue for you: The only thing you seem to know is spell.
I don't understand why you had to stoop so low as to criticize my spelling. Did you think before you did that?

Apparently, you know nothing about the Israeli-Arab conflict as well. Not only your assumptions are wrong and been proved time and again as wrong but it also, seems to me, you are not even using facts (even wrong ones) to back your claims but rather just desire for say "things".

PerfectionGirls

Only as lame as your rebuttal.

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dig420

just claiming that you're right and the other person is wrong doesn't win you an argument. You have to say WHERE the other person is wrong, and WHY you're right.

Spelling is important, and arguing with an illiterate is a waste of time as they won't understand anything but the most simple concepts anyway, the kind that Bush likes to make speeches about. The fact that English isn't your first language excuses you, I've seen native speakers that are much worse.

XXXManager

True - but as turkey proven in the last elections, democracy there is (unfortunatelly) very fragile. The base of power that US is negotiating with in Turkey is military - not political.
I don't think Arab countries in the middle east are looking for a role model in democracy. If anything, it should come from people's desire for some effect on their country - and in the ME Arab countries - that might be possible ONLY if they have a new type of regime that allows free will of the people. That is very far from today's situation but we can all hope.

KRL

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be... The People cannot be safe without information. When the press is free, and every man is able to read, all is safe."

Those words by Thomas Jefferson embody the unfortunate state of affairs that have beset our nation. As our government prepares to go to war with Iraq, our country seems unable to answer even the most basic questions about this war.

First, why is there virtually no international support to topple Saddam? If Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD) program truly possessed the threat level that President Bush has repeatedly purported, why is there no international coalition to militarily disarm Saddam?

Secondly, despite over 300 unfettered U.N inspections to date, there has been no evidence reported of a reconstituted Iraqi WMD program.

Third, and despite Bush's rhetoric, the CIA has not found any links between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. To the contrary, some analysts believe it is far more likely Al Qaeda might acquire an unsecured former Soviet Union Weapon(s) of Mass Destruction, or potentially from sympathizers within a destabilized Pakistan.

Moreover, immediately following Congress's vote on the Iraq Resolution, we suddenly became aware of North Korea's nuclear program violations. Kim Jong Il is processing uranium in order to produce nuclear weapons this year. President Bush has not provided a rationale answer as to why Saddam's seemingly dormant WMD program possesses a more imminent threat that North Korea's active program. Strangely, Donald Rumsfeld suggested that if Saddam were 'exiled' we could avoid an Iraq war.

Confused yet? Well, I'm going to give their game away -- the core driver for toppling Saddam is actually the euro currency.

Although completely suppressed in the U.S. media, the answer to the Iraq enigma is simple yet shocking. The upcoming war in Iraq war is mostly about how the ruling class at Langley and the Bush oligarchy view hydrocarbons at the geo-strategic level, and the overarching macroeconomic threats to the U.S. dollar from the euro.

The Real Reason for this upcoming war is this administration's goal of preventing further OPEC momentum towards the euro as an oil transaction currency standard. However, in order to pre-empt OPEC, they need to gain geo-strategic control of Iraq along with its 2nd largest proven oil reserves.

This lengthy essay will discuss the macroeconomics of the 'petro-dollar' and the unpublicized but real threat to U.S. economic hegemony from the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency. The following is how an astute and anonymous friend alluded to the unspoken truth about this upcoming war with Iraq:

"The Federal Reserve's greatest nightmare is that OPEC will switch its international transactions from a dollar standard to a euro standard. Iraq actually made this switch in Nov. 2000 (when the euro was worth around 80 cents), and has actually made off like a bandit considering the dollar's steady depreciation against the euro. (Note: the dollar declined 17% against the euro in 2002.)

"The real reason the Bush administration wants a puppet government in Iraq -- or more importantly, the reason why the corporate-military-industrial network conglomerate wants a puppet government in Iraq -- is so that it will revert back to a dollar standard and stay that way." (While also hoping to veto any wider OPEC momentum towards the euro, especially from Iran -- the 2nd largest OPEC producer who is actively discussing a switch to euros for its oil exports)."

Furthermore, despite Saudi Arabia being our 'client state,' the Saudi regime appears increasingly weak, threatened from massive civil unrest. Some analysts believe a 'Saudi Revolution' might be plausible in the aftermath of an unpopular U.S. invasion of Iraq (ie. Iran circa 1979) [1].

Undoubtedly, the Bush administration is acutely aware of these risks. Hence, the neo-conservative framework entails a large and permanent military presence in the Persian Gulf region in a post Saddam era, just in case we need to surround and grab Saudi's oil fields in the event of a coup by an anti-western group. But first back to Iraq.

"Saddam sealed his fate when he decided to switch to the euro in late 2000 (and later converted his $10 billion reserve fund at the U.N. to euros) -- at that point, another manufactured Gulf War become inevitable under Bush II. Only the most extreme circumstances could possibly stop that now and I strongly doubt anything can -- short of Saddam getting replaced with a pliant regime.

"Big Picture Perspective: Everything else aside from the reserve currency and the Saudi/Iran oil issues (i.e. domestic political issues and international criticism) is peripheral and of marginal consequence to this administration. Further, the dollar-euro threat is powerful enough that they will rather risk much of the economic backlash in the short-term to stave off the long-term dollar crash of an OPEC transaction standard change from dollars to euros. All of this fits into the broader Great Game that encompasses Russia, India, China."

This information about Iraq's oil currency is censored by the U.S. media and the Bush administration as the truth could potentially curtail both investor and consumer confidence, reduce consumer borrowing/spending, create political pressure to form a new energy policy that slowly weans us off middle-eastern oil, and of course stop our march towards war in Iraq. This quasi 'state secret' can be found on a Radio Free Europe article discussing Saddam's switch for his oil sales from dollars to the euros on Nov. 6, 2000:

"Baghdad's switch from the dollar to the euro for oil trading is intended to rebuke Washington's hard-line on sanctions and encourage Europeans to challenge it. But the political message will cost Iraq millions in lost revenue. RFE/RL correspondent Charles Recknagel looks at what Baghdad will gain and lose, and the impact of the decision to go with the European currency." [2]

At the time of the switch many analysts were surprised that Saddam was willing to give up millions in oil revenue for what appeared to be a political statement. However, contrary to one of the main points of this November 2000 article, the steady depreciation of the dollar versus the euro since late 2001 means that Iraq has profited handsomely from the switch in their reserve and transaction currencies. The euro has gained roughly 17% against the dollar in that time, which also applies to the $10 billion in Iraq's U.N. 'oil for food' reserve fund that was previously held in dollars has also gained that same percent value since the switch. What would happen if OPEC made a sudden switch to euros, as opposed to a gradual transition?

"Otherwise, the effect of an OPEC switch to the euro would be that oil-consuming nations would have to flush dollars out of their (central bank) reserve funds and replace these with euros. The dollar would crash anywhere from 20-40% in value and the consequences would be those one could expect from any currency collapse and massive inflation (think Argentina currency crisis, for example). You'd have foreign funds stream out of the U.S. stock markets and dollar denominated assets, there'd surely be a run on the banks much like the 1930s, the current account deficit would become unserviceable, the budget deficit would go into default, and so on. Your basic 3rd world economic crisis scenario.

"The United States economy is intimately tied to the dollar's role as reserve currency. This doesn't mean that the U.S. couldn't function otherwise, but that the transition would have to be gradual to avoid such dislocations (and the ultimate result of this would probably be the U.S. and the E.U. switching roles in the global economy)." In the aftermath of toppling Saddam it is clear the U.S. will keep a large and permanent military force in the Persian Gulf. Indeed, there is no 'exit strategy' in Iraq, as the military will be needed to protect the newly installed Iraqi regime, and perhaps send a message to other OPEC producers that they might receive 'regime change' if they convert their oil exports to the euro.

Another underreported story from this summer related to another OPEC 'Axis of Evil' country, Iran, who is vacillating on the euro issue.

"Iran's proposal to receive payments for crude oil sales to Europe in euros instead of U.S. dollars is based primarily on economics, Iranian and industry sources said.

"But politics are still likely to be a factor in any decision, they said, as Iran uses the opportunity to hit back at the U.S. government, which recently labeled it part of an 'axis of evil.'

"The proposal, which is now being reviewed by the Central Bank of Iran, is likely to be approved if presented to the country's parliament, a parliamentary representative said.

"'There is a very good chance MPs will agree to this idea... now that the euro is stronger, it is more logical,' the parliamentary representative said." [3]

CONTINUED

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dig420

what's so funny about what he's saying? I'm not asking you to just say 'he's stupid'. what EXACTLY is so ludicrous in his post that you couldn't even be bothered to address it?

KRL

Moreover, and perhaps most telling, during 2002 the majority of reserve funds in Iran's central bank have been shifted to euros. It appears imminent that Iran intends to switch to euros for their oil currency.

"More than half of the country's assets in the Forex Reserve Fund have been converted to euro, a member of the Parliament Development Commission, Mohammad Abasspour announced. He noted that higher parity rate of euro against the US dollar will give the Asian countries, particularly oil exporters, a chance to usher in a new chapter in ties with European Union's member countries.

"He said that the United States dominates other countries through its currency, noting that given the superiority of the dollar against other hard currencies, the US monopolizes global trade. The lawmaker expressed hope that the competition between euro and dollar would eliminate the monopoly in global trade." [4]

After toppling Saddam, this administration may decide that Iran's disloyalty to the dollar qualifies them as the next target in the 'war on terror.' Iran's interest in switching to the euro as their currency for oil exports is well documented. Perhaps this MSNBC article alludes to the objectives of neo-conservatives.

"While still wrangling over how to overthrow Iraq's Saddam Hussein, the Bush administration is already looking for other targets. President Bush has called for the ouster of Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat. Now some in the administration -- and allies at D.C. think tanks -- are eyeing Iran and even Saudi Arabia. As one senior British official put it: 'Everyone wants to go to Baghdad. Real men want to go to Tehran.'" [5]

Aside from these political risks regarding Saudi Arabia and Iran, another risk factor is actually Japan. Perhaps the biggest gamble in a protracted Iraq war may be Japan's weak economy. [6]

If the war creates prolonged oil high prices ($45 per barrel over several months), or a short but massive oil price spike ($80 to $100 per barrel), some analysts believe Japan's fragile economy would collapse. Japan is quite hypersensitive to oil prices, and if its banks default, the collapse of the second largest economy would set in motion a sequence of events that would prove devastating to the U.S. economy. Indeed, Japan's fall in an Iraq war could create the economic dislocations that begin in the Pacific Rim but quickly spread to Europe and Russia. The Russian government lacks the controls to thwart a disorderly run on the dollar, and such an event could ultimately force an OPEC switch to euros.

Additionally, other risks might arise if the Iraq war goes poorly or becomes prolonged. It is possible that civil unrest may unfold in Kuwait or other OPEC members including Venezuela, as the latter may switch to euros just as Saddam did in November 2000. This would foster the very situation this administration is trying to prevent: another OPEC member switching to euros as their oil transaction currency.

Incidentally, the final 'Axis of Evil' country, North Korea, recently decided to officially drop the dollar and begin using euros for trade, effective Dec. 7, 2002. [7] Unlike the OPEC-producers, North Korea's switch will have negligible economic impact, but it illustrates the geopolitical fallout of Bush's harsh rhetoric.

Much more troubling are North Korea's recent actions following the oil embargo of their country. They are in dire need of oil and food; and in an act of desperation they have re-activated their pre-1994 nuclear program. Processing uranium appears to be taking place at a rapid pace, and it appears their strategy is to prompt negotiations with the U.S. regarding food and oil. The CIA estimates that North Korea could produce 4-6 nuclear weapons by the second half of 2003. Ironically, this crisis over North Korea's nuclear program further confirms the fraudulent premise for which this war with Saddam was entirely contrived.

Unfortunately, neo-conservatives such as George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Pearle fail to grasp that Newton's Law applies equally to both physics and the geo-political sphere as well: "For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction."

During the 1990s the world viewed the U.S. as a rather self-absorbed but essentially benevolent superpower. Military actions in Iraq (1990-91 and 1998), Serbia and Kosovo (1999) were undertaken with both U.N. and NATO cooperation and thus afforded international legitimacy. President Clinton also worked to reduce tensions in Northern Ireland and attempted to negotiate aresolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

However, in both the pre and post 9/11 intervals, the 'America first' policies of the Bush administration, with its unwillingness to honor International Treaties, along with their aggressive militarisation of foreign policy, has significantly damaged our reputation abroad. Following 9/11, it appears that President Bush's 'warmongering rhetoric' has created global tensions -- as we are now viewed as a belligerent superpower willing to apply unilateral military force without U.N. approval.

Lamentably, the tremendous amount of international sympathy that we witnessed in the immediate aftermath of the September 11th tragedy has been replaced with fear and anger at our government. This administration's bellicosity has changed the worldview, and 'anti-Americanism' is proliferating even among our closest allies. [8]

Even more alarming, and completely unreported in the U.S media, are some monetary shifts in the reserve funds of foreign governments away from the dollar with movements towards the euro. [9]

It appears that the world community may lack faith in the Bush administration's economic policies, and along with OPEC, seems poised to respond with economic retribution if the U.S. government is regarded as an uncontrollable and dangerous superpower. The plausibility of abandoning the dollar standard for the euro is growing. An interesting U.K. article by Hazel Henderson outlines the dynamics and the potential outcomes:

The most likely end to US hegemony may come about through a combination of high oil prices (brought about by US foreign policies toward the Middle East) and deeper devaluation of the US dollar (expected by many economists). Some elements of this scenario:

1. US global over-reach in the 'war on terrorism' already leading to deficits as far as the eye can see -- combined with historically-high US trade deficits -- lead to a further run on the dollar. This and the stock market doldrums make the US less attractive to the world's capital.

2. More developing countries follow the lead of Venezuela and China in diversifying their currency reserves away from dollars and balanced with euros. Such a shift in dollar-euro holdings in Latin America and Asia could keep the dollar and euro close to parity.

3. OPEC could act on some of its internal discussions and decide (after concerted buying of euros in the open market) to announce at a future meeting in Vienna that OPEC's oil will be re-denominated in euros, or even a new oil-backed currency of their own. A US attack on Iraq sends oil to [euro dollar symbol] 40 (euros) per barrel.

4. The Bush Administration's efforts to control the domestic political agenda backfires. Damage over the intelligence failures prior to 9/11 and warnings of imminent new terrorist attacks precipitate a further stock market slide.

5. All efforts by Democrats and the 57% of the US public to shift energy policy toward renewables, efficiency, standards, higher gas taxes, etc. are blocked by the Bush Administration and its fossil fuel industry supporters. Thus, the USA remains vulnerable to energy supply and price shocks.

6. The EU recognizes its own economic and political power as the euro rises further and becomes the world's other reserve currency. The G-8 pegs the euro and dollar into a trading band -- removing these two powerful currencies from speculators trading screens (a "win-win" for everyone!). Tony Blair persuades Brits of this larger reason for the UK to join the euro.

7. Developing countries lacking dollars or "hard" currencies follow Venezuela's lead and begin bartering their undervalued commodities directly with each other in computerized swaps and counter trade deals. President Chavez has inked 13 such country barter deals on its oil, e.g., with Cuba in exchange for Cuban health paramedics who are setting up clinics in rural Venezuelan villages.

The result of this scenario? The USA could no longer run its huge current account trade deficits or continue to wage open-ended global war on terrorism or evil. The USA ceases pursuing unilateralist policies. A new US administration begins to return to its multilateralist tradition, ceases its obstruction and rejoins the UN and pursues more realistic international cooperation.

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XXXManager

Hardly - You were saying in the same sentence -so to speak- that Saddam has nothing with the oil price in the US.
I think it is funnier than anything I said.

scooby doo as scooby does

This is what I'd like to see happen.

Inspections continue, the good things Blix mentioned in his report followed thru (there was big movement on non-accompanied interviews, spy planes etc.). The things that Blix reported as not forthcoming need to be focused on now. If the inspectors find anything, or Iraq does not continue in the vein Blix's last report suggested, then war.

If the inspections continue to get further cooperation from the Iraqis, they will eventually come close to approaching an end. At that point, all the evidence so far is examined. Any further questions that need answering are put to Iraq/Saddam. If they are answered to the UN's satisfaction, the Inspectors withdraw.

What happens after that.
1) A smaller team of inspectors stay to continue montoring doing random unannounced checks (at customs as well) and importers have to report tracking and inventory information to the inspectors (in advance from the source!).
2) Spy planes remain doing random checks.
3) Intelligence is beefed up. (E.G. Turkey to allow (hopefully) sophisticated listening posts installed on the border).
4) The US elects proper politicians instead of business executives. (quite frankly the US government has handled this appallingly, and I think that's the reason why, and I don't just mean the war itself, but the interaction with the allies as well.).
5) The allies becoming allies again and our support for US reiterated.
6) Sanctions to be lifted apart from weapons related.
7) The US start to develop an alternative ME policy, particularly with regard to bribing the dictators/kings in power. (No. 2 reason US hated).
8) The US to help solve the Palestine/Israel problem instead of simply supporting the Israelies. (No 1 reason US hated).
9) The US/someone to get Bin Laden.
10) Iraq to be allowed to sell it's oil, but monitored.
11) Iraqis have to report all new war related installations, offices, laboratories & factories b4 they go live to the inspectors.
12) The size of the Iraqi airforce & army to be limited.

Okay, shoot me down....

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dig420

so you're saying we should spend billions of tax dollars and waste american lives to bring down the price of oil? and you don't even LIVE HERE??

no thanks