Why do some companies not cascade their billing? - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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FreeHugeMovies

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#1

Why do some companies not cascade their billing?

05-25-2006, 06:17 PM

I haven't figured this out yet. Please educated me.
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FreeHugeMovies

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#2

05-25-2006, 08:14 PM

Too complex of a question? =]
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Phoenix

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#3

05-25-2006, 08:16 PM

maybe some do but dont let you know.......

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FreeHugeMovies

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#4

05-25-2006, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Phoenix

maybe some do but dont let you know.......

LOL What advantage would that be?
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#5

05-25-2006, 08:45 PM

I don't get it either, It's just leaving money on the table.

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2MuchMark

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#6

05-25-2006, 08:56 PM

Why we don't use cascade billing

Hi,

Cascade billing can be good for some websites, but we at LiveCamNetwork.com prefer NOT to use cascade billing for several reasons.

First, we trust CCBill to take care of most of our fraud scrubbing. We have written our own fraud scrubbing layer called AHMAD, but overall, We trust CCBill's decision. if CCBill refuses a transaction for ANY reason, why should we question them? We trust CCBill to be the expert on credit card billing, otherwise, what are we paying them for? Why cascade that purchase down to a smaller provider who has weaker fraud-detection services or scoring practices? Just so we can make the sale only to have it charged-back later?

As a LIVE entertainment provider, 2Much / LiveCamNetwork suffers real losses when people use stolen credit cards, because we payout to the performers no matter what.

If you have a membership site, or site with "static" content that you've already paid for, Cascade billing isn't really a bad idea. But if you have a LIVE site with on-going costs, my suggestion is to FORGET Cascade billing. You have little more to gain, but take on a much higher risk.

Mark Prince
2Much Internet Services Inc.

Last edited by 2MuchMark; 05-25-2006, 08:56 PM. Reason: small typo!
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#7

05-25-2006, 08:58 PM

lol.......
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Fetish

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#8

05-25-2006, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by MarkPrince

Hi,

Cascade billing can be good for some websites, but we at LiveCamNetwork.com prefer NOT to use cascade billing for several reasons.

First, we trust CCBill to take care of most of our fraud scrubbing. We have written our own fraud scrubbing layer called AHMAD, but overall, We trust CCBill's decision. if CCBill refuses a transaction for ANY reason, why should we question them? We trust CCBill to be the expert on credit card billing, otherwise, what are we paying them for? Why cascade that purchase down to a smaller provider who has weaker fraud-detection services or scoring practices? Just so we can make the sale only to have it charged-back later?

As a LIVE entertainment provider, 2Much / LiveCamNetwork suffers real losses when people use stolen credit cards, because we payout to the performers no matter what.

If you have a membership site, or site with "static" content that you've already paid for, Cascade billing isn't really a bad idea. But if you have a LIVE site with on-going costs, my suggestion is to FORGET Cascade billing. You have little more to gain, but take on a much higher risk.

Mark Prince
2Much Internet Services Inc.

Cascading billing is not just all about scrubbing. Sometimes, a card may be declined because of a network error where the backend processor could not get an authorization at that moment. Also, cascading credit card declines to a chack page works well. We use Netbilling exclusively as our gateway but do sometimes cascade between merchant accounts, depending on if it is a bank decline, fraud scrubbing decline or a network error.
It is good to trust your processor but the more control you have over things in the long run, the more money you will make.
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#9

05-25-2006, 09:15 PM

for a mom pop like us its too expensive
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beemk

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#10

05-25-2006, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by MarkPrince

Hi,

Cascade billing can be good for some websites, but we at LiveCamNetwork.com prefer NOT to use cascade billing for several reasons.

First, we trust CCBill to take care of most of our fraud scrubbing. We have written our own fraud scrubbing layer called AHMAD, but overall, We trust CCBill's decision. if CCBill refuses a transaction for ANY reason, why should we question them? We trust CCBill to be the expert on credit card billing, otherwise, what are we paying them for? Why cascade that purchase down to a smaller provider who has weaker fraud-detection services or scoring practices? Just so we can make the sale only to have it charged-back later?

As a LIVE entertainment provider, 2Much / LiveCamNetwork suffers real losses when people use stolen credit cards, because we payout to the performers no matter what.

If you have a membership site, or site with "static" content that you've already paid for, Cascade billing isn't really a bad idea. But if you have a LIVE site with on-going costs, my suggestion is to FORGET Cascade billing. You have little more to gain, but take on a much higher risk.

Mark Prince
2Much Internet Services Inc.

why not take it out of the girls pay if they get a chargeback? problem solved.

I host with Vacares
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beemk

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#11

05-25-2006, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by tony404

for a mom pop like us its too expensive

how is it too expensive? the whole reason to do cascade billing is to do more joins, making you more money.

I host with Vacares
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FreeHugeMovies

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#12

05-25-2006, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by tony404

for a mom pop like us its too expensive

Let's say it cost 5K to cascade or whatever the cost may be. Wouldn't you recoup that in the increased number of sales say in 1 year?
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woj

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#13

05-25-2006, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by beemk

why not take it out of the girls pay if they get a chargeback? problem solved.

yea, that's real fair, can you imagine how great that would work in a real life business? Imagine you are working at walmart: "sorry guys, last week 2 tvs got stolen, and 3 losers used a stolen credit card, we will deduct $100 from your paycheck"

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#14

05-25-2006, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by beemk

why not take it out of the girls pay if they get a chargeback? problem solved.

I have never deducted from a model and never will unless there is real evidence she knew or was involved in the chargebacks.

I trust CCBill scrub and see their declines on a daily basis so adding Paycom to try and pick up some that is CCBill declined. I also use Safshop on one site and have to say there scrub seems to be effective and a lot of members like them for chat.

I am setting up NATS now on a site and will run with CCBill and Paycom only....at least initially. Other processors with easy requirements....hmmm...maybe not.

I have had $800 chargebacks this week and it hurts but it comes from my pocket not the models.
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#15

05-25-2006, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by woj

yea, that's real fair, can you imagine how great that would work in a real life business? Imagine you are working at walmart: "sorry guys, last week 2 tvs got stolen, and 3 losers used a stolen credit card, we will deduct $100 from your paycheck"

if i send signups to a revshare sponsor and it gets charged back, i lose my commission. i dont see how a girl spreading her legs on a cam should be any different than me sending a join to a revshare site.

I host with Vacares
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#16

05-25-2006, 11:29 PM

There is one well know sponsor that doesn't cascade, I think they are acutally in bed with the processor.
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FreeHugeMovies

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#17

05-26-2006, 06:13 AM

If I were you I would split the cost with them. But, that's just me as I don't know anything about your business. If they would leave in numbers, then you are doing the right thing.

Originally posted by cams2chat

I have never deducted from a model and never will unless there is real evidence she knew or was involved in the chargebacks.

I trust CCBill scrub and see their declines on a daily basis so adding Paycom to try and pick up some that is CCBill declined. I also use Safshop on one site and have to say there scrub seems to be effective and a lot of members like them for chat.

I am setting up NATS now on a site and will run with CCBill and Paycom only....at least initially. Other processors with easy requirements....hmmm...maybe not.

I have had $800 chargebacks this week and it hurts but it comes from my pocket not the models.
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The Ghost

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#18

05-26-2006, 06:22 AM

Some of the reasones programs/sites do not cascade and yes, there's more but it's early....

1. They are happy with the sales they currently make and don't feel the need to change

2. Scared to use new software or make changes in their program

3. Think the possible added income won't justify the expense/headache of doing their own accounting

4. Think affiliates will not act favorably to moving away from a CCBill only program

5. Do not trust the software that handles the cascade

6. Cannot be approved for a additional processor for whatever reason

7. Do not want to pay the second Visa charge for the additional processor(s)

.... feel free to add on

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#19

05-26-2006, 08:15 AM

Thanksn for the reply.

Originally posted by The Ghost

Some of the reasones programs/sites do not cascade and yes, there's more but it's early....

1. They are happy with the sales they currently make and don't feel the need to change

2. Scared to use new software or make changes in their program

3. Think the possible added income won't justify the expense/headache of doing their own accounting

4. Think affiliates will not act favorably to moving away from a CCBill only program

5. Do not trust the software that handles the cascade

6. Cannot be approved for a additional processor for whatever reason

7. Do not want to pay the second Visa charge for the additional processor(s)

.... feel free to add on
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#20

05-26-2006, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by FreeHugeMovies

If I were you I would split the cost with them. But, that's just me as I don't know anything about your business. If they would leave in numbers, then you are doing the right thing.

Our sales are ok...and chargebacks not a problem usually....but this week. They wouldnt leave in numbers but a cam site needs to keep girls, studios, members, affiliates and whoever happy. I will wear just about anything reasonable.
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#21

05-26-2006, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by The Ghost

Some of the reasones programs/sites do not cascade and yes, there's more but it's early....

1. They are happy with the sales they currently make and don't feel the need to change

2. Scared to use new software or make changes in their program

3. Think the possible added income won't justify the expense/headache of doing their own accounting

4. Think affiliates will not act favorably to moving away from a CCBill only program

5. Do not trust the software that handles the cascade

6. Cannot be approved for a additional processor for whatever reason

7. Do not want to pay the second Visa charge for the additional processor(s)

.... feel free to add on

On my main site www.asiancammodels.com we have CCbill then Safshop. I am about to add Paycom there but without cascading because Safshop was my original processor and we still do nice numbers with them and they are not set up for NATS.

www.cams2chat.com is CCBill and am adding Paycom this week and NATS being set up now.

I wanted to cascade but didnt want to mess up what is going well so doing another site can be run with NATS and cascading. If Safshop volume drops with time I will then add ACM to NATS and cascading.
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KRL

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#22

05-26-2006, 02:36 PM

Lazy and clueless.

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andrej_NDC

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#23

05-26-2006, 02:41 PM

My experience with more payment options:

With only cc and 1 billing, all people who want to join, click that.

With more options, people spread their clicks and some options convert worse than the main one. Actually all of them. Those people don't go back and choose the main option then, they just leave. Less sales.

At least thats what I have seen, easy join page with no options to choose from made more sales for me.
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bigdog

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#24

05-29-2006, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by KRL

Lazy and clueless.

More laziness they anything, they proably just don't want to cut checks themselves can't blame them
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