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Originally Posted by rickholio
The provisions of the USA PATRIOT act directly rewrite portions of the criminal code. Thus, all law enforcement, I repeat, all law enforcement can and will use these provisions. There is no special "patriot act police" that have these powers handed down from on high. Even Dpty. Cleetus in Bumblefuck, Idaho has these rights, if he gets it in his head that the "hahahahahahas down the end of Buffalo road have one of them thar crack houses in it".
Read the bill. Take some time and actually READ the damn thing.
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I have read it more than once and have followed all hearings held that involves the Patriot Act...and you are mis-representing the Patriot Act.
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Which you persist on dodging.
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No...I have not doged anything...only in your mind.
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"EXPANDED"? It's curtailed the protections of the 4th amendment in the most egregious way!
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It most definitely has not "curtailed" the protections of the 4th amendment. It has altered the 4th to some extent. Permission of the Courts are still required to enforce provisions of the Patriot Act
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You're bordering on Orwell-style 'doublespeak' now.
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Cute...but only in your mind.
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And in the meantime? You've already tried to float the canard in the other post that these things would be 'sunset', which they have not been. The supreme court is now in danger of being skewed hard right by what is sure to be a neverending stream of evangelical, activist judges. This is a good thing?
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I did not "try to float the canard in the other post that these things would be 'sunset'. Another mis-representation by you. FYI...historically it is repeatedly been proven that the Justices of the Supreme court are not at all predictable.
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Ahhh... I see. So once you're a suspect... not a CRIMINAL, mind you, just a suspect, then you're lumped in with the terrorists and any rights you had have been trumped. Where's the presumption of innocence? Are you in such dire dire fear of the brown man that you'd throw away due process for some artificial sensation of safety?
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FYI...the presumption of innocence is a legal term and only applies with in a court. I do not fear any man...and/or any organization. My life has been at risk far to many times to be very fearful of anything. The Patriot Act does not eliminate due process...but in some instances may change the known definition of due process. FYI...the world is in flux...the interpretation of the Constitution has always been in flux and the Constitution was not wrttten in stone...thus the power to admend.
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Here's a hypothetical situation. Let us assume that you had a female companion, and let us also assume that the relationship went sour and ended with a large amount of raised voices and acrimony after one particular night of kinky sex.
Let us further assume that this woman is so pissed at being unceremoniously dumped that she goes to the police and claims you raped her in your last encounter. She has physical evidence to support her claim: lubrication, perhaps genetic material. If you were particularly frisky, she may even have some bruises on the arms. If she were particularly evil, she may get some additional bruises from a sympathetic third party with which to railroad you.
At this point, by your reckoning, you're a criminal suspect and therefore have no rights against unreasonable search and seizure. Your rights are forfeit. Police can, at any time, enter your home, your vehicle, your place of work seeking evidence to support this woman's claim against you and take any and all physical evidence they feel is of import... perhaps you took pictures of this woman and had them on a CD: They take your computer, your CDs, and your camera. They don't need to tell you that they're there or even that they've BEEN there; as far as you know, you've been robbed. If they have 'resonable suspicions' that you conspired with other people to perform this 'crime', they can tap all of your phones, and move that tap to your place of work (roving wire taps).
All this is entirely within the realm of possibility of these laws as written. The USA PATRIOT act enshrines in law the de facto presumption of guilt, and gives law enforcement, everyday, average law enforcement, the tools to fulfill that presumption.
Indeed. I believe in innocence until guilt is proven. Pity that you feel that criminal suspects don't deserve any rights. You'd best hope you never 'fit the description' of a perpetrator in the future... you might just find yourself on the shit-end of the scenarios you currently applaud.
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Your senario is not applicable and is more than ridiculous and is a mis-representation of the use of the Patriot Act. It will be government agents that seek the enforcement of the Patriot Act...after having received the permission of a Federal Judge.
This is the end to any further intercourse with you about the Patriot Act as you are now just using rhetorical BS.