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Pleasurepays · 07-14-2004, 04:32 PM

Bopha, you are right that it might not be fair to characterize all union members as such. i was just speaking from my own experience. my whole life has been a very different story growing up in that environment with family and family friends that are all welders and pipefitters, electritions and so on. Some unions are definately a little more benign than others.

One thing I noticed growing up was that they are extremely corrupt to begin with. they give all the best jobs to their friends and there was a lot of politics just to get work. by best jobs ... i mean 6 figure jobs that have 100's or 1000's of people in line for - say for example jobs in alaska in remote areas (North Slope, Dutch Harbor etc)

Unions and uninion members demand loyalty even when there is no work. If you do work outside the union... even to survive, you are hated and ostracized. My uncle bought property, built a new house (his dream house) etc and then got laid off from his job. Thats not a big deal... but the ignorant ass had to be "loyal to his brothers" so he chose to listen to their promises of getting him back to work, rather than going and finding a job outside the union to provide for his family and save his home. Ultimately, he lost everything. That is a very common story. Very common in industries where jobs/projects are bid and the work is temporary.. say a 1 yr project and they are all relying on the union to line up more contracts after so they continue to be employed.

more than anything, they can't wait to figure out how to do less work for more money. How do you run a business effectively when you have a work force that is constantly testing new ideas to be less effective and less productive. with some industries, that is a little more difficult to achieve like a restaurant. But what about a job where everyone on the job is Union? Labor, Electritions, Plumbers, Welders, Carpenters, Painters etc etc etc. It is a clusterfuck. Always.

Not only that but Union labor is almost ALWAYS more expensive and almost NEVER better.

Here is a good example of the union mindset that i personally witnessed (as well as countless similar situations like it)

We have a big ship in a shipyard in Seattle. We have serious deadlines to get the work done. lost days to delays means 100's of thousands in lost revenue.

So... a welder needs to weld something. Its on his little work order for the day. He slowly works his way to the area. slowly dicks aroung setting his stuff up. Then... announces that he cannot do anything because there are tools in the way (tools from another worker in the yard). So, i go to move the tools... He freaks out! "don't touch any of the shipyards equipment or tools etc etc etc... its in the rules" This guy is getting big bucks to stand there. So i ask him who has to move the tools. He tells me who is responsible for the tools. I find that guy. He tells me it's not his job to move the tools. It was either the job of the laboror or the apprentice (i forgot which). Welder is still standing there. Anyway... it took me about 2 hrs to find the right guy to go move the tools.

.. so he can start right and do his 5 minutes of welding? Nope. A light is out. it was not dark out and the light was not effective.. but according to union safety regulations, the light had to be fixed before any work could be done... even though we were standing in broad daylight at about 1 in the afternoon on a sunny day. So... I can't change the light. I have to go find an electrition to change the light. After finally finding an electrition to change the bulb.. he lets me know its not his job and i have to find his helper. Where is he? no one knows.

We went around in circles for most of the day trying to get one guy who was costing us close to $100.00 an hour to just stand there so he could do 5 mins worth of work... and he was very proud of himself and thought it was very funny that he had such an easy job.

Thats a normal story that I have witnessed in my life. Very typical of what Unions represent.

I have a friend who is having a $50,000,000 a year seafood business destroyed by uneducated, unskilled labor who already get two times the industry standard in wages and benefits and are treated like GOLD... yet somehow they convince themselves they are getting fucked worse and worse every year when the contracts are up, yet they are taking more and more. He has to move most of his business to Canada and Oregon. Just like the film industry in Hollywood and other industries.

for every "good" there is 100 evils.

07-14-2004, 04:32 PM
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	Bopha, you are right that it might not be fair to characterize all union members as such. i was just speaking from my own experience. my whole life has been a very different story growing up in that environment with family and family friends that are all welders and pipefitters, electritions and so on. Some unions are definately a little more benign than others. One thing I noticed growing up was that they are extremely corrupt to begin with. they give all the best jobs to their friends and there was a lot of politics just to get work. by best jobs ... i mean 6 figure jobs that have 100's or 1000's of people in line for - say for example jobs in alaska in remote areas (North Slope, Dutch Harbor etc) Unions and uninion members demand loyalty even when there is no work. If you do work outside the union... even to survive, you are hated and ostracized. My uncle bought property, built a new house (his dream house) etc and then got laid off from his job. Thats not a big deal... but the ignorant ass had to be "loyal to his brothers" so he chose to listen to their promises of getting him back to work, rather than going and finding a job outside the union to provide for his family and save his home. Ultimately, he lost everything. That is a very common story. Very common in industries where jobs/projects are bid and the work is temporary.. say a 1 yr project and they are all relying on the union to line up more contracts after so they continue to be employed. more than anything, they can't wait to figure out how to do less work for more money. How do you run a business effectively when you have a work force that is constantly testing new ideas to be less effective and less productive. with some industries, that is a little more difficult to achieve like a restaurant. But what about a job where everyone on the job is Union? Labor, Electritions, Plumbers, Welders, Carpenters, Painters etc etc etc. It is a clusterfuck. Always. Not only that but Union labor is almost ALWAYS more expensive and almost NEVER better. Here is a good example of the union mindset that i personally witnessed (as well as countless similar situations like it) We have a big ship in a shipyard in Seattle. We have serious deadlines to get the work done. lost days to delays means 100's of thousands in lost revenue. So... a welder needs to weld something. Its on his little work order for the day. He slowly works his way to the area. slowly dicks aroung setting his stuff up. Then... announces that he cannot do anything because there are tools in the way (tools from another worker in the yard). So, i go to move the tools... He freaks out! "don't touch any of the shipyards equipment or tools etc etc etc... its in the rules" This guy is getting big bucks to stand there. So i ask him who has to move the tools. He tells me who is responsible for the tools. I find that guy. He tells me it's not his job to move the tools. It was either the job of the laboror or the apprentice (i forgot which). Welder is still standing there. Anyway... it took me about 2 hrs to find the right guy to go move the tools. .. so he can start right and do his 5 minutes of welding? Nope. A light is out. it was not dark out and the light was not effective.. but according to union safety regulations, the light had to be fixed before any work could be done... even though we were standing in broad daylight at about 1 in the afternoon on a sunny day. So... I can't change the light. I have to go find an electrition to change the light. After finally finding an electrition to change the bulb.. he lets me know its not his job and i have to find his helper. Where is he? no one knows. We went around in circles for most of the day trying to get one guy who was costing us close to $100.00 an hour to just stand there so he could do 5 mins worth of work... and he was very proud of himself and thought it was very funny that he had such an easy job. Thats a normal story that I have witnessed in my life. Very typical of what Unions represent. I have a friend who is having a $50,000,000 a year seafood business destroyed by uneducated, unskilled labor who already get two times the industry standard in wages and benefits and are treated like GOLD... yet somehow they convince themselves they are getting fucked worse and worse every year when the contracts are up, yet they are taking more and more. He has to move most of his business to Canada and Oregon. Just like the film industry in Hollywood and other industries. for every "good" there is 100 evils. Last edited by Pleasurepays; 07-14-2004 at 04:35 PM..