Quote:
Originally posted by warlock667
Why is it that when I start posting facts, nobody can come back with a response and just let the thread die? Let's go Bush haters, come in and back up your arguments for once instead of just quoting Michael Moore and running!
|
As I said in my last post, I was leaving the comp for a while to do other things. That's why I hadn't replied yet.
Anyway,
Your post was very interesting, and your points are well taken.
I am not someone who goes about saying "Fuck Bush" ... I am just trying to understand why he has so much support in this country and your post has definitely helped.
Before I go on, I want to say that everyone who has posted in this thread the word "Idiot", on EITHER SIDE, missed the point completely and can go fuck themselves. I am not trying to start an elementary school argument, I'm trying to breed some real insite and understanding into the extreme dichotomy that has developed in this country.
Ooook ... anyway, let's take a look at your post, and I'll tell you what I think (for what it's worth):
Quote:
Originally posted by warlock667
Your question was answered, you just didn't like it so you blew it off.
Our "unilateral" war with Iraq as you call it was supported by:
Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Costa Rica
Czech Republic
Denmark
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Mongolia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Palau
Panama
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Rwanda
Singapore
Slovakia
Solomon Islands
South Korea
Spain
Turkey
Uganda
Ukraine
United Kingdom
United States
Uzbekistan
Yes, that list has shrunk a bit since some of the countries got scared and tucked tail, but the fact is it was NOT unilateral. Just because this list doesn't contain some of the "traditional" allies of the United States, it includes many new ones that are alot more relevant to the region of this conflict.
|
Ok, you're right, it wasn't solely unilateral, other countries helped us with this operation in big ways.
Some points of interest regarding this fact, however:
Many of the countries who support the war in Iraq which are "alot more relevant to the region of this conflict" are, as you put it, "new allies" to the United States which in the long run is a very good thing.
However, the aquisition of many of these new allies is extremely suspect. I don't even want to go into it because it is speculation and not fact, therefore I will give you this one and say that yes, we were supported by several allies. (But please, for the love of God, explain to me GW's shady affiliation with Saudi Arabia and how we can possibly disregard it?)
One other thing that is not well-published, but causing this to look more and more like a financially driven, unilateral movement, is the actual troop number that are in Iraq.
After the US, the second highest military presence in Iraq is of US employed 'mercenaries' (for lack of a better word). These are soldiers for hire, and the US has engaged an unprecedented amount of them for this war. Again, this is a topic worthy of it's own thread, but the implications are clear. The allied support of this war effort is not strong enough to even make it feasible without 'hiring' (nearly 20k) mercenaries to fill in the gaps.
Now again, I'm not saying that your statement was incorrect, but these are a bare few of the reasons why this war is looked at as such a unilateral movement by the global community.
Quote:
Originally posted by warlock667
Secondly, many of the allies not involved in the war in Iraq HAVE BEEN and STILL are allied with us on the war on terror. Special Operations forces from countries like Australia, the United Kingdom, Norway, New Zealand, Denmark, Canada, FRANCE and GERMANY, have been provided for Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan.
Europe is struggling right now for it's own identity, and they'll continue to snub the U.S. as much as they can to save face, regardless of who is in power. Bush just seems to be the "Enemy Of The Day", but they'll find fault in anything relating to the U.S. if it serves their purposes.
|
I never said that we'd lost allies in the war on terrorism.
In fact, I believe I said:
"But what I'm really referring to is turning allies into enemies. It
hasn't really happened yet, but our allies are democracies, and the majority of PEOPLE in most of these countries do NOT like what we are doing. In the long run, this will have a huge affect on our relationships with these countries."
Ok, Ok, so I used the word "Democracy" in error. But please, you get the point. What I'm saying is that regardless of what the leaders of US allied countries are doing right now, if we continue on this path we will be pissing off a huge majority of PEOPLE in a US allied countries to such an extreme that it could effect the future of US diplomacy in a a negative way for years and years to come.
Quote:
Originally posted by warlock667
Lastly, although not part of your original question, I had to chime in. You really need to do some research and check the history of U.N. resolutions regarding Iraq since 1991. Iraq was not in violation for producing weapons of mass destruction, it was in violation for not proving it had destroyed weapons it already claimed to have. Regardless of if they destroyed them or not, they were required to prove they had, not the U.N. or the U.S.
Everyone member nation of U.N. was in agreement that Iraq was in violation of U.N. resolutions.... The problem was that the U.S. was the only one to do something about it.
|
Right, the UN set an impossible task for Iraq to complete, and there was a reason why they took no action.
GW took it even further and said "Until you give up your WMD's, you are risking military action with the US"
Now, this may be extremely ignorant of me, but I seem to remember Sadam saying "We have no WMD's"... over, and over, and over again.
So ... what else could Iraq have done? Made some WMD's, then destroyed them and showed us a picture??
Alright that's all I got ... I wasn't trying to start a fight here, just wanted to hear some opinions. And let you hear mine
Thanks for the good conversation.
-P