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m00d · 05-12-2004, 10:16 AM

"The place is broken"
CIA veteran Bob Baer says torture was forbidden when he worked for the agency. "Now contractors are sent out to torture people to death and then hide it."

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By Mary Jacoby

May 12, 2004 | In 22 years as a CIA officer, not only did Bob Baer never hear of American agents using torture as an interrogation technique, but his career would have been over had he been anywhere near something like that. Other countries in the Middle East and Central Asia where he served may have practiced torture. But for CIA agents, it "was a definite no-no," he says. "After the Vietnam War, the culture was very much against it."

Now, the United States faces an international uproar over photos showing U.S. military personnel physically, mentally and sexually abusing Iraqi prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad. Military officials are investigating the deaths of 10 detainees at undisclosed locations in Iraq, while the CIA's inspector general is examining the involvement of CIA officers and contract employees in three deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq. The CIA has referred those three cases to the Justice Department for possible criminal prosecution in civilian courts. Justice won't say whether it is also examining the other deaths.

A fluent Arabic speaker, Baer is the author of two bestselling books, "See No Evil: The True Story of a Ground Solider in the CIA's War on Terrorism" and "Sleeping With the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude." In 1995 he operated in the protected no-fly zone of northern Iraq as a CIA liaison to Kurdish militia, the U.S.-backed Iraqi National Congress and other dissidents aiming to topple Saddam Hussein.

Salon caught up with Baer recently at a pub near his home on Capitol Hill in Washington. The former agent talked about the Abu Ghraib scandal and how U.S. policies on interrogation have changed since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

As far as you know, was torture ever used as an interrogation technique while you were in the CIA?

No, not while I was there. I got in, in 1976, at the end of the conflict in Vietnam. And at that time in the CIA, torture was as serious as, say, fabricating reporting is in journalism today. It was a firing offense -- we knew that. You torture, you're fired. There are two kinds of political correctness in the CIA. One is that we don't want to annoy someone in the State Department trying to recruit someone in Moscow and have it blow up. And then there is the kind of stuff that's illegal, or used to be illegal -- which is assassination and torture.

But torture now seems to be acceptable in the American intelligence community?

Apparently. I mean, look at Iraq.

When did that happen?

It must have been after 9/11. I'd heard rumors of this in Afghanistan with the contractors, but no one had really nailed it down with pictures. Up until 9/11, torture was ... I mean, you wouldn't think about it. It was considered a criminal action.

Are you sure? You left the CIA six years ago.

I can't believe the atmosphere when I left the place in 1998 would have changed so radically. Frankly, it is inconceivable to me. Without the incentive of 9/11, I don't think that this would be happening.

Why do you think it became acceptable after 9/11? Is there an element of revenge involved? Or is there a feeling it will help us get information to protect us from future attacks?

I just don't think there's a lot of supervision, for one thing. And torture -- I just don't think it really works. I think it works for the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Saudis, who want to scare the hell out of people. But you don't get the truth. What happens when you torture people is, they figure out what you want to hear and they tell you.

05-12-2004, 10:16 AM
m00d So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 3,129	"The place is broken" CIA veteran Bob Baer says torture was forbidden when he worked for the agency. "Now contractors are sent out to torture people to death and then hide it." - - - - - - - - - - - - By Mary Jacoby May 12, 2004 \| In 22 years as a CIA officer, not only did Bob Baer never hear of American agents using torture as an interrogation technique, but his career would have been over had he been anywhere near something like that. Other countries in the Middle East and Central Asia where he served may have practiced torture. But for CIA agents, it "was a definite no-no," he says. "After the Vietnam War, the culture was very much against it." Now, the United States faces an international uproar over photos showing U.S. military personnel physically, mentally and sexually abusing Iraqi prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad. Military officials are investigating the deaths of 10 detainees at undisclosed locations in Iraq, while the CIA's inspector general is examining the involvement of CIA officers and contract employees in three deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq. The CIA has referred those three cases to the Justice Department for possible criminal prosecution in civilian courts. Justice won't say whether it is also examining the other deaths. A fluent Arabic speaker, Baer is the author of two bestselling books, "See No Evil: The True Story of a Ground Solider in the CIA's War on Terrorism" and "Sleeping With the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude." In 1995 he operated in the protected no-fly zone of northern Iraq as a CIA liaison to Kurdish militia, the U.S.-backed Iraqi National Congress and other dissidents aiming to topple Saddam Hussein. Salon caught up with Baer recently at a pub near his home on Capitol Hill in Washington. The former agent talked about the Abu Ghraib scandal and how U.S. policies on interrogation have changed since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. As far as you know, was torture ever used as an interrogation technique while you were in the CIA? No, not while I was there. I got in, in 1976, at the end of the conflict in Vietnam. And at that time in the CIA, torture was as serious as, say, fabricating reporting is in journalism today. It was a firing offense -- we knew that. You torture, you're fired. There are two kinds of political correctness in the CIA. One is that we don't want to annoy someone in the State Department trying to recruit someone in Moscow and have it blow up. And then there is the kind of stuff that's illegal, or used to be illegal -- which is assassination and torture. But torture now seems to be acceptable in the American intelligence community? Apparently. I mean, look at Iraq. When did that happen? It must have been after 9/11. I'd heard rumors of this in Afghanistan with the contractors, but no one had really nailed it down with pictures. Up until 9/11, torture was ... I mean, you wouldn't think about it. It was considered a criminal action. Are you sure? You left the CIA six years ago. I can't believe the atmosphere when I left the place in 1998 would have changed so radically. Frankly, it is inconceivable to me. Without the incentive of 9/11, I don't think that this would be happening. Why do you think it became acceptable after 9/11? Is there an element of revenge involved? Or is there a feeling it will help us get information to protect us from future attacks? I just don't think there's a lot of supervision, for one thing. And torture -- I just don't think it really works. I think it works for the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Saudis, who want to scare the hell out of people. But you don't get the truth. What happens when you torture people is, they figure out what you want to hear and they tell you.