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Incognito · 08-06-2001, 06:44 AM

No really.
This discussion is already cool just because of the names who took part in.
My best wishes and respect to all of big guys. I may be am kinda late with this statement, but nevertheless...

Anyways:
I'd like to comment though couple of points:

1. Kimmy, You should not really get so stern about my comments and math.
Why? Because what You say about Your position to be true is wrong. Why? Because seeing the numbers does not mean You understand them. How possibly could You? It is fairly obvious that big guys who GOT THOSE NUMBERS themselves are not sure about various tendencies and what's better to do, like the situation which was the main question of this discussion - i.e. to raise prices per trial or not?

Numbers themselves cant tell You very much. Every sponsor got it's own ways of promotion, it's own surfer market in many ways and it's own promoters.

This is easy - You see that one guy got expensive trials and the other got cheap and the guy who got expensive trials does more sales and earns more...Now is this enough to say that expensive trials are better for instance? Even if You analise the amount of webmasters in each of those two taken programs and the amount of sales those webmasters do and even the traffic they send, still You cant be sure for even 1% that the price of trials actually matters at all. Cause it all might be because of price and might be not. It might be about content and advertising. Say one sponsor got ads twice as better as the second one. Can You analize that in Your position? Does sales numbers, in fact ANY numbers of a billing company help You ANYWAY to analize that? No they dont. And advertising skills and it's quality and CONTENT'S quality You know is half of this biz. Cant see how billing company can analize that though.

2. Speaking about sponsors without webmasters: it's nonsense. May be it is convinient to state such a possibility for any PR stuff or anything like that. But physically it's impossible and the reason why I say it's impossible is - traffic. Traffic is what really driving this biz. Or to be exact TRAFFIC and ADVERTISING.
Now there's a very easy thing to understand. One human being's power of traffic generation is limited. A single person can make a certain amount of traffic, can run a certain amount of free resources and...not more. We dont take ABNORMAL cases of course - they dont make the industry and at most of times they are limited in duration (i.e. Hun get's finally tired and says BYE-BYE to the biz

) . But in normal situation if Your sales are lets say half a million bucks per month and that is achieved by 2000 active webmasters for example it is extremely easy to understand that to pull those half a million sales per month You got to make EXACTLY the same job those 2000 of webmasters do, cause You got to get same traffic. You cant do that with 20 hired coworkers You know. And the AVERAGE webmaster does NOT earn too much in comparison with a hired mans COST, no - not salary , BUT cost. You do understand that when You hire a person - his salary is not equal to his cost to You? Do You? Because when You hire a person - You pay for his dinner, You pay for his working space, in case of USA You also pay a hell lot of other things I suppose, hard for me to judje - I am russian. So let's say You're not paying any money to webmasters. Good. You hire WORKERS. Ok. Half a million sales made by webmasters equals roughly 250 000$ payouts in case You pay out about half of overall sales. So You got left with the same 250K to achieve in case You dont need webmasters.
Now taking into consideration that You used 2000 webmasters to get half a million sales it's easy to understand that You need 1000 of people to make 250K sales.

How much do You think will 1000 hired WORKERS will cost? How much will only 500 hundred workers cost? I dont even want to think about fucking dinners, social security shit and salaries, honestly the price of the office for such a crowd kills me already....

So a paysite with no sponsorship proggie wont work. Because when You invest in Your sponsorship proggie in the end You if Your product is good You dont only get 2000 guys working for You (though not only for You of course) , but You got MOTIVATED people. That's what SHARING does instead of salary.

And saving all the PR crap You might see that it's a hell cool economy on management costs.

P.S. Kim. I will personally come to one known billing company and literally kiss Your ass ,however it looks by the way, if You show me any paysite which pulls at the very least half of what big guys do without webmasters in program. Really.

Please Kim also, I respect You and the whole discussion. Please dont overreact. I just posted pure math.

08-06-2001, 06:44 AM
Incognito Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: RU Posts: 371	No really. This discussion is already cool just because of the names who took part in. My best wishes and respect to all of big guys. I may be am kinda late with this statement, but nevertheless... Anyways: I'd like to comment though couple of points: 1. Kimmy, You should not really get so stern about my comments and math. Why? Because what You say about Your position to be true is wrong. Why? Because seeing the numbers does not mean You understand them. How possibly could You? It is fairly obvious that big guys who GOT THOSE NUMBERS themselves are not sure about various tendencies and what's better to do, like the situation which was the main question of this discussion - i.e. to raise prices per trial or not? Numbers themselves cant tell You very much. Every sponsor got it's own ways of promotion, it's own surfer market in many ways and it's own promoters. This is easy - You see that one guy got expensive trials and the other got cheap and the guy who got expensive trials does more sales and earns more...Now is this enough to say that expensive trials are better for instance? Even if You analise the amount of webmasters in each of those two taken programs and the amount of sales those webmasters do and even the traffic they send, still You cant be sure for even 1% that the price of trials actually matters at all. Cause it all might be because of price and might be not. It might be about content and advertising. Say one sponsor got ads twice as better as the second one. Can You analize that in Your position? Does sales numbers, in fact ANY numbers of a billing company help You ANYWAY to analize that? No they dont. And advertising skills and it's quality and CONTENT'S quality You know is half of this biz. Cant see how billing company can analize that though. 2. Speaking about sponsors without webmasters: it's nonsense. May be it is convinient to state such a possibility for any PR stuff or anything like that. But physically it's impossible and the reason why I say it's impossible is - traffic. Traffic is what really driving this biz. Or to be exact TRAFFIC and ADVERTISING. Now there's a very easy thing to understand. One human being's power of traffic generation is limited. A single person can make a certain amount of traffic, can run a certain amount of free resources and...not more. We dont take ABNORMAL cases of course - they dont make the industry and at most of times they are limited in duration (i.e. Hun get's finally tired and says BYE-BYE to the biz ) . But in normal situation if Your sales are lets say half a million bucks per month and that is achieved by 2000 active webmasters for example it is extremely easy to understand that to pull those half a million sales per month You got to make EXACTLY the same job those 2000 of webmasters do, cause You got to get same traffic. You cant do that with 20 hired coworkers You know. And the AVERAGE webmaster does NOT earn too much in comparison with a hired mans COST, no - not salary , BUT cost. You do understand that when You hire a person - his salary is not equal to his cost to You? Do You? Because when You hire a person - You pay for his dinner, You pay for his working space, in case of USA You also pay a hell lot of other things I suppose, hard for me to judje - I am russian. So let's say You're not paying any money to webmasters. Good. You hire WORKERS. Ok. Half a million sales made by webmasters equals roughly 250 000$ payouts in case You pay out about half of overall sales. So You got left with the same 250K to achieve in case You dont need webmasters. Now taking into consideration that You used 2000 webmasters to get half a million sales it's easy to understand that You need 1000 of people to make 250K sales. How much do You think will 1000 hired WORKERS will cost? How much will only 500 hundred workers cost? I dont even want to think about fucking dinners, social security shit and salaries, honestly the price of the office for such a crowd kills me already.... So a paysite with no sponsorship proggie wont work. Because when You invest in Your sponsorship proggie in the end You if Your product is good You dont only get 2000 guys working for You (though not only for You of course) , but You got MOTIVATED people. That's what SHARING does instead of salary. And saving all the PR crap You might see that it's a hell cool economy on management costs. P.S. Kim. I will personally come to one known billing company and literally kiss Your ass ,however it looks by the way, if You show me any paysite which pulls at the very least half of what big guys do without webmasters in program. Really. Please Kim also, I respect You and the whole discussion. Please dont overreact. I just posted pure math.