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Drake · 12-02-2003, 01:04 PM

I think this thread is a non-issue at least in today's society. Maybe it won't be 100 years from now.

Racism existed and still persists. Schools were still segregated until 1969. Many of us lived in that time so it's not ancient history. Even after so called racism became illegal, it's not something that's going to disappear overnight.

It's like telling people to treat slim attractive people the same as heavy unattractive people. Everybody will agree that they treat both the same but they don't and we all know this. It's documented fact just as racism is. It's also like saying that rich kids don't get an easier life chance than middle class or poor kids. We all know that they have better opportunities and that even without skills they can land the best jobs and leverage the most money with the least capital/risk (Bush could leverage 1 million dollars using 1000 dollars. Try to get a loan at your bank for 1 million dollars using 1000 dollars and see what they tell you).

One of the inherent problems in covert racism is that the recipient (ex the minority) can actually be discriminated against without being able to prove it. On the other hand, they can also claim racism (which is a serious charge) when they were actually not discriminated against which is also difficult to prove/demonstrate. It's similar to when you know that somebody dislikes you even if they don't tell it to your face.

One should be aware of the politics involved with racism. It becomes a very complex issue when one realizes that some blacks and whiltes actually benefit from racism. Many have made careers out of the 'fight' to end it. There are other forces at work too, such as when Denzel and Halle won Oscar's. By handing two blacks the top spot one year (earned or not totally earned) it gives the impression or illusion that this type of thing happens on a grand scale. It doesn't.

For one, there are so few jobs that actually require much skill that qualify one human being over another. Most 3rd grade children could do many of the manufacturing assembly line jobs.

Quota's are wrong. One cannot designate workers based on the number of people within a certain race. Affirmative Action really is a wrong fundamentally. The problem is that there appears to be no better alternative to try and rectify the advantage that some people have over others based on what has happened less than 40 years ago and what is still happening today. Although we were not involved in the beatings and lynchings 40 years ago, we benefit from being white over other groups.

It's like saying I'm not the one forcing Indonesian children into sweat shops overseas. I've never done it. But I still buy the shoes those children create and I've benefited from their cheap labor.

Many former Russian Communists were able to find jobs easier than blacks who fought with the US against those very same Communist 'enemies' during the World Wars. So while he may not be a Smith by name, he is still white, and is given better priviledges than many American born blacks.

When people talk about Affirmative Action it's always very selective. The stories are usually full of unverifiable anecdotes and it precludes any real high paying jobs ex doctors, lawyers, CEO's.

I do believe their are problems that need to be changed. For instance, immigration policies need to change. Things like speaking English are important and as the 'first' language of the country I think everybody should learn it fluently. I know that I would feel more comfortable going to a doctor who speaks English rather than broken English EVEN though both doctors may be able to perform equally competently.

Anyway, that's my rant. This is a non-issue. It's over blown. I think it's a reaction by many in society who see it changing, some of it being legitimate but most of it fluff.

12-02-2003, 01:04 PM
Drake Hello world! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 12,508	I think this thread is a non-issue at least in today's society. Maybe it won't be 100 years from now. Racism existed and still persists. Schools were still segregated until 1969. Many of us lived in that time so it's not ancient history. Even after so called racism became illegal, it's not something that's going to disappear overnight. It's like telling people to treat slim attractive people the same as heavy unattractive people. Everybody will agree that they treat both the same but they don't and we all know this. It's documented fact just as racism is. It's also like saying that rich kids don't get an easier life chance than middle class or poor kids. We all know that they have better opportunities and that even without skills they can land the best jobs and leverage the most money with the least capital/risk (Bush could leverage 1 million dollars using 1000 dollars. Try to get a loan at your bank for 1 million dollars using 1000 dollars and see what they tell you). One of the inherent problems in covert racism is that the recipient (ex the minority) can actually be discriminated against without being able to prove it. On the other hand, they can also claim racism (which is a serious charge) when they were actually not discriminated against which is also difficult to prove/demonstrate. It's similar to when you know that somebody dislikes you even if they don't tell it to your face. One should be aware of the politics involved with racism. It becomes a very complex issue when one realizes that some blacks and whiltes actually benefit from racism. Many have made careers out of the 'fight' to end it. There are other forces at work too, such as when Denzel and Halle won Oscar's. By handing two blacks the top spot one year (earned or not totally earned) it gives the impression or illusion that this type of thing happens on a grand scale. It doesn't. For one, there are so few jobs that actually require much skill that qualify one human being over another. Most 3rd grade children could do many of the manufacturing assembly line jobs. Quota's are wrong. One cannot designate workers based on the number of people within a certain race. Affirmative Action really is a wrong fundamentally. The problem is that there appears to be no better alternative to try and rectify the advantage that some people have over others based on what has happened less than 40 years ago and what is still happening today. Although we were not involved in the beatings and lynchings 40 years ago, we benefit from being white over other groups. It's like saying I'm not the one forcing Indonesian children into sweat shops overseas. I've never done it. But I still buy the shoes those children create and I've benefited from their cheap labor. Many former Russian Communists were able to find jobs easier than blacks who fought with the US against those very same Communist 'enemies' during the World Wars. So while he may not be a Smith by name, he is still white, and is given better priviledges than many American born blacks. When people talk about Affirmative Action it's always very selective. The stories are usually full of unverifiable anecdotes and it precludes any real high paying jobs ex doctors, lawyers, CEO's. I do believe their are problems that need to be changed. For instance, immigration policies need to change. Things like speaking English are important and as the 'first' language of the country I think everybody should learn it fluently. I know that I would feel more comfortable going to a doctor who speaks English rather than broken English EVEN though both doctors may be able to perform equally competently. Anyway, that's my rant. This is a non-issue. It's over blown. I think it's a reaction by many in society who see it changing, some of it being legitimate but most of it fluff.