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Originally posted by ModelPerfect
I can't stand it anymore. Serious topic here, without the "my style is better than your style" ego thing:
First, let me say I very much believe in both grappling and stand-up fighting, and train very hard in both. And I think Gracie style is outstanding on the ground, better than most other grappling styles (excluding Machado...possibly).
Someone mentioned that NHB is just like street-fighting with the exception of a few "low-blow" techniques. From someone who's done both, I don't agree. How many street fights have you ever seen that lasted 20 minutes? It just doesn't happen; usually, it's a matter of seconds.
The "Gospel of BJJ"? I think it's blown out of proportion. Except for the seasoned stand-up fighter and if he's totally on his game, I see the strike distances existing as a heirarchy: Providing, your opponent doesn't mind eating a few shots, It's hard to fight a distance fight if the guy wants to in-fight, and it's hard to stay in-fighting if the guy wants to go to the ground. Thus, in NHB, a grappler versus a stand-up fighter has an edge: He can make the stand-up fighter fight his fight, but unless the stand-up fighter is very proficient and on his game, he'll find it tough to keep it from going to the ground. So BJJ wins and they boast they are the best street style.
BUT, the big difference is you are rarely guaranteed a one-on-one fight in the street. What happens to your face by your opponent's buddy while you're applying ude juji gatame? Probably getting stomped. So I don't think it's the absolutely end-all of martial arts, but I do think it's a very important one.
Going back to the heirarchy: Nobody likes to get hit. I've seen a notorious slug-fest fighter shoot in on a BJJ guy because he was getting pounded. If you're out-hitting the guy and he's not falling, chances are he's shooting or clinching. Oops; now it's a grappling match and his friends are on the way. Grappling in this situation isn't about rolling around until he tires out or getting a fancy lock on, it's about getting up as fast as you can and doing as much damage on the way out before his friends get to you. The last place you want to be is on the ground with 3-4 guys above you, no matter how bad you're fucking up the one you're grappling with. If you can't get away, you can at least position the guy between you and his friends. I don't think most people could reliably accomplish either without some grappling knowledge.
In a controlled environment like NHB or shootfighting, you can get by with just grappling, providing you are proficient and know how to close the gap. But in the street, you better know something about stand-up fighting, even if it's just throwing the guy without following him down. Likewise, the stand-up fighter would be well-advised to learn some ground techniques/movements/escapes, so he doesn't get mauled if he gets taken down, which is a likely event. So neither grappling nor stand-up is the end-all, but equally important. I personally wouldn't want to be in a street fight without having at least a workable knowledge in both.
OK. I'm rambling. Sorry. It's 7am and I need to sleep. Talk to you guys later.
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Rickson Gracie, the greatest BJJ fighter in the world, said more than one opponent, and I'm getting my gun. Tell me one style that is good against more than one opponent that ensures your victory 9 out of 10 and I'll be studying it. Until then, my 240lb ass is studying with the Gracies.
However, you make valid points. Points that every grappler should worry about. If we go to the ground, I'm going to be on top. Knee on stomach gives me quite a bit of flexiblity.
When everyone thinks of BJJ, they auto think fight on the ground. Watch some old Vale Tudo. BJJ are the original cross trainers, alot of us started off from stand up. Saw the efficiency of the grappling range, especially against those not versed in it.