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Originally Posted by BigFurry
Thommy is right, online porn has become a lot more professional. To make money as an affiliate, publisher, or product owner, you have to be a professional.
But I think Paul Markham has a point in this discussion too, and some people are quick to dismiss whatever he says.
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I never said that things are fair or without problems.
you can do the free site biz in a legal or in an illegal way - same as you can do it with EVERY biz.
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This hasn't come up on this conversation, but the tube model still relies on using stolen content and DMCA being weak. Tube site owners don't like to talk about this, but their whole business relies on the weak DMCA copyright mechanism, letting them add full-length videos without really having to be afraid of anything.
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this is something that i see as a problem also.
and here we do not even talk about "stolen" content.
many tubes do have the tube rights and give legal access to embed codes.
and sure - they doīt do that to do this ones a favor who do not have the same options - they want something in return.
but i can see many sited that try to get rid of the embedded player and server the videos in their own player. I can tell you here that MOST of this people that do that do not even know that this is illegal.
but if we're talking about those who do it intentionally and consciously we actually do not talk about the biz I am talking about.
I am against this people same as I am against those that are stealing complete layouts, textwork and other work of publishers.
i can also tell you that there are a few networks and affiliate programs that are reacting and acting when things like that are known.
sure we can not go after those guys when they are sitting in russia, china, india or wherever - but we can cut them the pay-flow and this is what I am doing together with this networks and affiliate programs as soon as i find it out.
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I know some people who are talented, running profitable affiliate sites. They tried to build tube sites with only legal content. They failed. They couldn't get enough ad revenue without full-length vids. The visitors, hence the engagement metrics, hence search engine algorithms all favor the tubes that are full of stolen full-length videos.
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90% of all who try it fail - same as 90% who try to run membersites will fail.
we are talking here about 2 things where you need different skills.
if you want to run a tube site you must be perfect in traffic generation - if you want to run a membersite you must be perfect in finding affiliates and hold customers.
technical skills alone will not bring you anywhere - no matter what you are doing to make money.
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Tubes are piggybacking off quality content being produced for OTHER CHANNELS. Tubes get the content for free (affiliate videos, stolen videos), then use the ad space next to the videos for ad networks and cam sites. This is not a sustainable model. It can work for 5 years, 10, maybe 15, as long as people keep giving them videos in hope of some return, and the others fail to enforce copyright.
Shitty mass produced $1 nonexclusive videos are good for filler content, but they won't make a tube popular and keep the visitors coming back.
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the "good old times" paul talks about had the absolute same sale base.
TGPs and sites with preview videos. but they where only made to sell the original.
what we see today is something complete different.
the tubes today do not target the porn addicted or the "professional porn users" that know each name of each model - those users representing less than 1% of the tube visitors..
we are targeting the mass - even women and others that are watching porn from time to time.
this users we are targeting will spend money for everything but for porn.
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There might be some exceptions, big tubes who can live off their brand names now, or even produce some quality videos. But for most tubes, the things above apply.
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I think you are overestimating this problem as this kind of tubes do not have the reach
the good made ones have. they are taking maybe 3-5% of the total cake.
they will also not have the success as they get so many DMCA complaints that they will never reach a high position in Google.
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If you look at the bigger picture, piracy has always been profitable. Pirate sites = making other people's paid content available to the public for free.
Torrent trackers and file sharing sites also make a huge profit. Just look at Kim Dotcom.
Are torrent trackers / file sharing sites that different from tubes? They are somewhat different, but very similar in their business model. Guess what, ad networks' and cam sites' ads are also all over those other pirate sites.
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the good news are, that the producer market reacted already.
since everybody can buy tube material for 1 dollar it is not worth to steal it.
tubes with legal content getting more and more and they will dominate the market.
apart from that amateurs, membersites, download sites and even camsites give so much free content, because they found out that it is cheaper than paying 50% or more to affiliates. some of them even pay to get their free videos into the tubes.
just look how many submitting services are offered here at GFY.
producers just have to accept that thew can not sell to 2 or 3 customers anymore but to a few 1000.
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Can you imagine how profitable it would be to create tubes with full-length Hollywood movies, and sell the ad space next to them? You could make millions. It's a great business model. But you can't make one, because it's illegal, it will get you in jail. The copyright laws ARE enforced in that space.
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again - tubes are not competing with this kind of users.
the users tubes are targeting do not even know names.
apart from that it is done - it happens. the big tubes like pornhub do have a paid area
and sell there this outstanding stuff to the few % that might like it.
and yes they use hollywood names for that:
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/08/be...ar-1202165798/
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Something being profitable & being operated professionally does not mean it's a sustainable business model. Lots of scams (eg. spamming, card banging) are run by smart and professional people, but that doesn't make them right or make their business models the future of their industries. (Not saying that tubes are a scam.)
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some people thought to sell fax machines is a sustainable business model.
every product have a product life cycle (corporate evolution)- there are even different mathematical formulas to calculate it.
i have never claimed that the present status quo will be eternal. that's exactly what's exciting about business, constantly reassessing these things and carrying your ship to where the water will go tomorrow.
but one thing is clear:
everywhere where there are masses, there is the possibility of financing through advertising. therefore the superbowl can also be financed through advertising and the world championship in 100-yard-sack-hopping not.
and i know already now that paul will veto exactly here because he will say that the broadcasting rights are also sold and not advertised. that is completely wrong because they are sold as advertising environment
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All that said, I have nothing against tubes, and not accusing anyone of anything. This is just how I see things. I understand the current situation in adult, and work with it. I think media buying is awesome and I admire people working in it. I might even give it a try. Thommy's posts are some of the best on GFY.
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I would like to make it clear here again that I am not in favor of criminals and thieves or my business built on it.
if you go to our website and try to find the button where you can register as a publisher, then you will be wasting time, because there is nothing but a contact form. simply because i don't see myself as a mother who feeds thieves and thieves on her breasts.
regarding the media buy:
If you can wait to 2020 and you are in travel mode - I will do a few workshops next year
in europe - just donīt have the dates and places fix yet.
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I just don't think it's right to call profiting off piracy / relying on weak copyright laws the future of adult business.
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I agree 100% - and that does not only fit for adult - it fits for ANY KIND of biz.