Originally Posted by thommy

i am the very last one who would choose "Germany über alles" - I am not a nationalist and I can see a lot of things going wrong in Germany.

it is also not about the fact that the european NATO is not really a troup of fighters and it was never since WW2. I think we did quite fine with that and I prefer the diplomatic ways to resolve a problem.

but this here is fucking senseless discussion because all what is in this 2% agreement is written down and it says CLEARLY that the goal to realize that is 2024.

also it can not be used as a must.
what happens in a crisis ?
how do you want to finance an army when the 2% of GDP are only 50% of the money you had before?

Germany did exactly that and STILL spendet the same as before but in the crsisi years it was 3,5% of Germany´s GDP.

or tell me what Luxembourg is doing ?
their army have 1100 people !!!!
and their GDP is very high.
will they buy a ferrari for each army member just to get on the 2% ???

in 2017 the countries in the world spendet in just ONE year :
1.740.000.000.000 us dollar

imagine this amount of money and what the world would be able to do with it.

now lets see what the "enemies" are spending from that:

china 228 billion
russia 66 billion

so on one hand 294 billion from "enemies" against 1.446 billion from the "not enemies"

and this is the status quo. this IS already the fact.

trump now think that this is far too few.
but he does not say he want to decrease the us spendings - no he wants more for that too. what he actually wants is to sell weapons to the allies - weapons what they do not need because there is no war around.

anyway IF there would be a direct war between this big nations tanks would not save us. it would be a nuclear war and this would mean: the end of the planet.

66 billion from russia in 2017 and everyone is afraid of them ???

if the world is afraid of russia who spend 66 billion and the rest of the world 1.446 billion - these weapons for 1.446 billion must be a big crap.

we should better save this money and invest it in the future instead in the end of this planet. only an idiot will not understand that.