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Originally Posted by Grapesoda
I apologize for seeming to be hostile and obtuse... I started the thread about liberal vrs conservatives only based on my personal experience... in my life no one gets anything for free, no one is entitled to any thing except professional curtsey, even respect must be earned, not demanded. and I was discourteous so once again I do apologize...
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I agree with what you are saying above. I also think, like you, that you must work to get what you want. My exceptions would be medical care and education. Those should be free for everyone.There are a lot of people suffering for reasons that they have no control over which I why I am in favor of 'helping' those who are less fortunate but not to give away the whole lot.
I am also not naive enough to think that there aren't people who abuse these programs and who are lazy - heck I tried to show a few people how to work online and EVERY SINGLE ONE stopped within a day or two or didn't even start because it was too much work
- but there are enough people who do need help to make these programs worth it.
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Originally Posted by Grapesoda
now about your arguments... I actually don't fucking care... see what I mean? it's not that I disagree with you or can't be 'convinced' or can't understand or anything like that. I really don't fucking care, honestly, it's really that simple. what you are pointing out to me for proof and argument are on par with chemtrails and the lizard people, same with right wing stuff. I do think Obama/Hilleary are scum though, but as people, not as liberals.
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I do see what you are saying but just don't get it. That's fine though.
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Originally Posted by Grapesoda
I'm really busy trying to support my family and don't really have time for political slapstick and shenanigans. I work within the existing system to the best of my abilities. and I stand by my statement and I have seen proof in the thread I started: low income people feel entitled to more and are more interested in the government funding in their lives. one of the posters in the thread has never made over 20K a year in his life and when you read his post you'll understand my point.
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I am also busy doing the same. I believe in education and youth programs for these low income people you talk about to 'train' them to become better people. Not that they are inherently bad but to give them more skills, confidence and to teach them how to live a better life while being productive members of society. They will be much happier that way and so will everyone else.
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Originally Posted by Grapesoda
I had a long talk with my cousin about politics once... his view is I'm a libertarian. here are my views:
only people with ovaries have any say so on abortion matters. you trust them to raise your children trust them to govern their own bodies.
when every school and all the infrastructure in AMERICA are running smoothly, when every kid has food (even white kids), then spend funds overseas. (I do know that is unrealistic)
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Abortion is a tricky issue but women should have more say. Sending money overseas is not even the answer to helping poor countries. One female African woman who was one of the first in her country to get a PhD or masters (I forget) gave a speech where she told the West to STOP sending money as it made the leaders of the country not need to take any initiative in moving forwards.
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Originally Posted by Grapesoda
Burkas and FGM are totally disgusting and the cultures that puts forth these polices are fucking disgusting. that makes me a bigoted racist, I'm okay with it.
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I agree 100% and will defend you in any thread on that topic.
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Originally Posted by Grapesoda
I have no use for crudeness and vulgarity and will do NO business with crude vulgar people. if that makes me racist, then I'm a racist, I'm okay with that as well.
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I don't like it either.
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Originally Posted by Grapesoda
I firmly believe in AMERICA and American boarders, I believe in a common language and common culture... that makes me a hate filled bigot, I'm fine with that. I will say this: the current polices of immigration are humiliating to the Latin people and another solution must be found... BUT blanket immunity isn't fair to those that worked hard to be citizens.
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Yeah I hear you. You can't just let everyone in. English should be the common language but Spanish should be 'accommodated' . As for cultures nobody should be able to change what America is culture-wise as we would never dream of doing that elsewhere. I think that multiculturalism is very good for society. Most people from other countries fit in very well when they come to the West. Others create problems and I suspect that is who you are talking about and I would agree with you regarding those people.
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Originally Posted by Grapesoda
I believe in freedom of religion 'EVEN CHRISTIANITY' although I do wish religion would take a back seat in public. if that makes me a racist I'm fine with that.
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Me too. But Freedom of religion should not trump equality or human rights etc...
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Originally Posted by Grapesoda
I do believe in same sex civil unions. every person should have the right to domestic bliss and the protective laws that go with that... however I do disagree with using the word 'marriage' to antagonize the religious, we all know that word was only chosen to cause media hype. I have been very clear about that. if you consider me a bigoted homophobe, that's just your opinion and do me the favor of keeping it to yourself.
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I actually do believe in using the word marriage. Not because it antagonizes others or is great for media hype but because for too long gays have been 'excluded' and worse. Social exclusion is a harsh punishment and by calling it 'marriage' they are now like 'every one else' and not sick, diseased people. Using the term marriage makes them now a part of 'us' instead of being sub-standard human beings.
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Originally Posted by Grapesoda
so hopefully you'll now understand my position mopek1  |
I think I do. It seems we have more in common than we thought but got lost in subtleties and nuances of an argument.
Thanks for this.
