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Originally Posted by Getsu
shut the fuck up Donny
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Come on, let's keep it civil.
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Originally Posted by Mutt
Something had to exist before, even if it's 'nothing'. Can physicists define 'nothing'?
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Nothing had to exist "before" -- time is a construct of the physical universe. It has no meaning outside of space-time. There's no "before" the universe in that context. We only think of something having to come from something else due to the physical laws of our universe. The meta-existance may not work anything like that.
New data seems to suggest that "our" universe was created when other universes collided with each other. That's decidedly pedestrian, compared to the idea of some sky fairy kicking off the cosmic dance.
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Originally Posted by TheSquealer
Ancient texts, forensic analysis, folklore, know historic events etc etc etc can also be considered "proof"
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Only proof of people believing it, not of it being "true" .. but I'm sure you see the distinction.
The difference between faith and evidence-based science is that science is find proving itself wrong and adaption to new observation. Religion is immutable by its very nature -- if it's wrong, you have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. This leads to ridiculous statements like that carbon dating is somehow wrong and the Earth is 6,000 years old ... or that dinosaurs were on the Ark with Noah ... or that the corpse of Jesus didn't rot in the ground like everyone else ... because if these things are "wrong" then it's all wrong. So, it backs believers into the corner of being forced to believe nonsense on "faith" when clear-headed analysis would lead to serious questions.
If someone came up with this fairy tale in the modern world, they'd be largely laughed at and marginalized, except for a fringe element. The Christian cult is very much like dozens of other prophet-deity stories around the time, including the virgin birth, miracles, resurrection, etc. It's the one that "caught on" and, given 2,000 years of violence, murder, and forced conversions, became a dominant force in the world.
Some, like Apollonius of Tyana, are extremely close to the Jesus myth. Apollonius' birth was heralded by a mystical being. He was the son of a god and a mortal woman. He was religiously schooling elders as a toddler. Had a disciple Damis (Jesus purportedly blessed the thief Demas on the cross). He was anointed with oil, and made his way to Jerusalem. He spoke in parables. He performed miracles, including healing the sick, casting out demons, and raising the dead. He was believed to be a savior, and was worshipped as a god. He was condemned to death by Roman authorities. He reportedly ascended to Heaven. He appeared miraculously to his followers following this ascension. Sound familiar at all?
It's all pretty silly, but if it makes people happy (and easier to control), then it's a tool, like any other.