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Originally Posted by Donny
It's ridiculous to discuss where our creator came from before we completely understand ourselves, don't you think? The atheist has the exact same problem, however. We sprang forth from something. Both of us have the problem of the origin of that "something."
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I don't believe we have a creator, so it's not my argument -- you brought up a need for a first cause, which isn't necessary in physics. Time itself is a construct of the universe, not a necessary component of "outside of the universe" paradigms. In our universe, space and time are one.
That's what ends up kind of weird in discussions like these -- creationists tend to bring up something, then argue the "ridiculousness" of believing the opposite. They don't see the fallacy of creating a straw man, then attacking it. Don't fall into that trap, you're smarter than that.
Other circular logic like "evolution has not been proven true, it must be false .. but god cannot be proven false, so he must be true" gets rather tedious as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny
And it's rather ignorant to say this universe would come from creator who wasn't very smart. The complexity of our universe and of life on our planet is mind blowing. Even the way a cells is put together - heck, even an atom - is incredible.
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Don't confuse complexity with design, and I wouldn't argue that any of it is well put together. The atomic bonds themselves are suboptimal, and much of our own biology could have been better designed by a first-year medical student. Our primary source of light also gives us cancer? What kind of retarded design is that? There's an unbelievable amount of cock-ups in nature, in humans, and in almost every area you example. Intelligence (if that intelligence was benevolent, and not an asshole) wouldn't have allowed for half the crazy shit that happens.