Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_PM
There has yet to be scientific proof that vegetables don't feel pain. Please don't tell me that you think mankind has considered and invented every way possible to determine everything that there is to know.
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This kind of argument is a logical fallacy. Providing proof that something doesn't exist (i.e., the occurrence of pain in vegetables) is impossible. A similar argument would be that there has yet to be scientific proof that taking your helmet off in space will kill you. No one has ever done it, but we can make reasonable assumptions based on what we know about the universe. For instance, the helmet in space thing - we know that there's no oxygen in the vaccuum of space, humans require oxygen in order to power the brain, the brain having power is essential to living, therefore, taking off your helmet in space will kill you.
This is known as an argument from
evidence of absence.
The same inferences can be made with vegetables. A central nervous system (and further, sentience) are required in order to feel conceptualize and experience pain (or, for that matter, 'experience' anything). There has yet to be a single plant, tree or anything in the family of non-animals that shows the existence of a central nervous system. Therefore, it is impossible for plants to conceptualize and experience pain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_PM
In fact, recent studies show how "intelligent" some plants are in using fungi in the soil to bring them nutrients and they coexist with them as it's beneficial to both.
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Firstly, there is absolutely no reason for you to use the word intelligent. Intelligence is the wrong word to use, as it isn't a conscious decision. It is the result of evolution. Plants doing things that are interesting does not mean that they chose to - it's an extension of the fact that
natural selection generally picks unique solutions for species to continue existing. This doesn't mean anything.
Secondly, the concept of
coevolution is nothing new. My favorite example is the
fig wasp/fig relationship. It has existed for close to 60 million years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_PM
Laugh if you must. Nobody ever knew what 12 inches was until we decided what to call it and how to measure it.
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This type of argument is flawed, simply because it is reasonable to assume that something doesn't exist if there is a lack of evidence for it. A similar argument is used by religious people, and a suitable counter analogy is that of
Russell's teapot. Unless you can prove otherwise, if I stipulate that there is a teapot orbiting Mars, you have to accept that as a fact. After all, as with me not being able to prove that vegetables do not feel pain, you cannot prove that there is not a teapot currently circulating the 4th planet from the Sun.
Thankfully, the logic is flawed, because you can have it on good authority (or, at least, you should have no reason to alter your views) that if something has absolutely no evidence or rational logic behind its existence, it probably doesn't exist.
If you want to give me some form of rational argument behind how a plant could even conceptualize pain, I'd be happy to hear it.