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Originally Posted by Barefootsies
Sorry to you artsy fartsy photographers, but there is a reason you're out of business. It's a very simple concept in regards to who stays in business and who does not. Perhaps you're shit doesn't convert as well as others, or your girls are not as attractive, maybe you do not offer post production and the next guy does. If your content does not generate sales, then you find yourself out of business. It's that simple.
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I totally agree with you. Nice point.
But I'm a "Spec" shooter. I shoot what the client wants and to the specifications that they want it. If I don't like it, or if I'm not interested, I just don't take the job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies
Look at Clips4Sale and all of the people making money there. Plenty of mom and pops shooting with what is at best night vision with mediocre talent and still making a living doing it. Do I think it's the pillar of quality content by PRODUCTION STANDARDS? No.
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Clips4sale trafic is "Niche" and "Fetish" specific. People that buy those type of clips(Which I love!) and go there are looking for specific amateur and fetish clips, not readily available everywhere.
Hey, I may be a "Fancy Pancy" Polished, technical Shooter, but I love and also shoot high end Niche and fetish Clips, amateur Niche and fetish Clips, for clients and for my own Clips4sale store.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies
However, I am a businessman. If that shitty night vision content with crackhoes convert into sales, ultimately that is ALL that I or people like myself care about. I can assure you that if your content and girls were selling and converting memberships like hotcakes, few would mind paying your ransom.
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I see your point and its way valid, but I don't think that this thread is about who is better than who and what converts and doesn't convert.
It is as simple as this: Client tells me what he wants and I tell him what it costs. If the guy is a savvy and "in tune" website owner and understands his traffic, he will be able to convey that to me. If he conveys what it is he wants, I have been around long enough to know if I can make it happen or not. If I can and we are both happy with the price, it happens.
But if i cant make it happen for what ever reason, (stuff I don't like to shoot, Things I dont think I could make happen, Price, etc), I politely decline.
Things I have turned down: Gay, Tranny, GILFS, Arab Woman, Rape, torture, pissing, Shitting and a few others that i forgot. Some I just could not make happen and others, I just didn't want to do, because, i wouldn't really know how to do them on a consistent.
Well I'm fortunate enough, that I am always busy and I have have the skills enough to turn in high end, "Artsy Fartsy", Super hardcore, and or amateur. And yes you do need some degree of skill to turn in amateur content. What skill might you ask??? The skills enough to duplicate the same look, feel, and style in a different place with the same consistence as you did all previous shoots.
Why is that important? Well if a client likes a particular amateur scenes look, style and feel, that you shot, but he wants it in a different, place, location, at night, during the day, in the back yard, in a car, etc. You better have the skills to reproduce that.
Not saying that the guy who actually is an amateur, wont sell content, but a "Spec" shooter better be able to reproduce what the client actually likes and wants.
Cant tell you how many Amateurs, think they are shooting High End and it in fact its Amiture and they cant reproduce what they did the 1st time ever again.
Seen that one a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies
I think some of you in this thread get too caught up in your artsy fartsy and do not spend enough time thinking about the business side of the equation from the end client's point of view. Obviously those who shoot hot women and good content that converts stay in business. It's simple natural selection of the business world.
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Footsie, I like you, I respect you and I agree with you on just about everything.
But I will tell you 1st hand, and this has been my experience; I don't think its about hot women or even pretty women. I think its about getting the right content for the right targeted traffic.
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Originally Posted by Pseudonymous
Barefootsies, its the clients that are currently hiring that have people caring about the technical side. The sites that are succeeding in the paysite market are indeed HQ erotic sites. There is a reason nubiles launched nubilefilms and the biggest sites to succeed lately are ones like x-art, joymii, reallyusefulcash's sites he has there, etc
These people are catering to the largest audience. Thats why its like that.
When you add all the other niches together and have them being sold on a site like clips4sales, of course its goign to appear like it is a better option
And as far as conversions, the bigger and more popular you are, the lousier conversions get, but those companies are still making the most.
One mistake those big companies are making, is by going to the same agency/l.a girls time and time again. That is what leaves room for other companies to come up and offer something better and why other niches still convert real well
Youre definitely right about photographers caring too much about the technical side of their work but only somewhat and the blame shouldn't only fall on their shoulders. I say somewhat because the type of product they are making is still the right choice for the most part.
Also who is out of business? Ive found the ones with actual skill have done pretty well at maintaining a workload. Also the ones that have the skill of producing high quality content and do not have a big workload, there might be other reasons for this.
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Really nice post. I like chopping it up with knowledgable people such as your self. Much Respect..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefootsies
In the end the only thing that matters is it's appeal and does it sell. If it doesn't sell or convert, the photographer's client will find someplace else with better models, or shot in a way that sells. Money is the name of the game, not artsy fartsy. High end production value is nice if that is what the members want. But the business or company who hired you wants sales, conversions, and retention.
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Agreed
Just Dave