Quote:
Originally Posted by DTK
Kevin, first off, you're taking what I said about a specific idea (everyone pays the exact same dollar amount) and twisting it into a completely different argument. and yeah, i'm a bit of an economics nerd, so i do know how it works now.
Generally, i either disagree with or find irrelevant most everything you said.
For me, that part of what you're saying dies right there. Obviously we aren't aren't anything remotely resembling equal at birth, so we're looking at an ivory tower discussion. I prefer to save those for when i'm really baked and in one of those 'in a perfect world...' moods. 
The january/march/september thing is nonsense. We figure these things on an annual basis.
The people you're referring to (the poor, mostly) contribute next to nothing because they have next to nothing. You know the saying 'you cant squeeze blood from a rock'? There ya go. Blaming the poor for the current state of our economy is not only far right-wing class warfare at it's finest, but it's factually inaccurate. I'm pretty sure destitute, poorly educated people weren't running Citi, BofA, Chase etc when they were creating and pushing mortgage products that were destined to drive us to the brink of a second Great Depression. In fact, i'm certain it was very wealthy, very amoral people running that show.
Stop handing out voting as a privilege? Are you fucking shitting me? You're basically talking about going back to feudalism. I'll pass.
That said, i do agree that current spending is not sustainable. The military budget needs to come down drastically, but in an orderly fashion. Cutting the DoD budget in half overnight would be economically disastrous. Also, did you know we spend $50 Billion (with a B) per year on the stupid, corporate-profit motivated, utterly fucking pointless War on (some) Drugs??
Here's the immediate problem: history has shown time and again that austerity in tough economic times ALWAYS leads to disaster. Fortunately, we currently have a once in a lifetime opportunity to borrow money for virtually nothing (adjusted for inflation, it's actually free money) so we can continue to stimulate an economy that desperately needs it. |
I didn't suppose you didn't know anything about taxation or economics, I merely saw the way you phrased the fairness of the numbers and responded to that. No offense intended.
I disagree with you regarding our equality at birth. Just because my parents were in a different state than your parents (could have been more affluent, could have been less; I think my parents combined income prior to me leaving home never topped 50K/yr which would mean at birth they may have been in the 15-20k range) doesn't change the fact that each of us at birth essentially has the same potential. Once you see that, everything else changes.
I understand your "ivory tower" indication, but things have to be looked at from every scenario, not just the politically correct one.
I agree the poor contribute next to nothing, but realistically, from an income standpoint, they contribute nothing at all. For all intents and purposes, all the other taxes on the table are distributed equally (property, vehicle, fuel), so why is income not done so? It's always an interesting question I believe.
I do not blame the poor for the state of the economy, I put that squarely on congress, not one iota on the poor. BTW, your indication that the bankers were to blame it only partly correct; they were supported and encouraged by Congress - on both sides of the aisle.
I knew the "voting privilege" statement would cause problems; I don't suggest feudalism. However, if you don't see the inherent problem in a welfare class voting on their own benefits I guarantee we will never be able to agree on it. I don't even feel that the wealthy should be voting on things that affect them. Conflict of interest doesn't belong in a voting process - anywhere/anytime/anyhow. Class welfare is how elections are won. Convince people that their lot in life is the fault of the other party. It's happening this year, it happened 2 years ago, 4 years ago...etc.
We agree on spending; Nice. I knew there was some common ground somewhere. I also agree with you on cuts to the DoD being disastrous. The GOP needs to stop having their sacred cows as does the Dems. Yes the war on drugs is stupid, as is the war on poverty, etc. There are certainly better ways to do things. The status quo makes for great headlines and political battles.
Borrow money adjusted for inflation that's actually free? I love that you know economics and I don't but I still get to the point that the money is borrowed. Just because the interest is whacked out doesn't mean the principal isn't still there. Overspending is overspending. Also, government stimulation of an economy has historically never worked either. If you wanna raise taxes; do it fairly (don't hack on the wealthy, make it equal across the board. A dollar is a fuckin dollar no matter the time of year or when it's earned. Just because someone has more of them doesn't change that fact). Also, stop letting deductions happen for everyone, everything. Make a dollar a dollar and tell everyone to share equally; including businesses.