Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard
I've never read that.
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Partial timelines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...ber_11_attacks
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/2011...-events-11908/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...9&title=759_am
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14681384
Better, more fully sourced timeline:
http://www.historycommons.org/timeli...of_9_11_events
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard
Both the FAA and the US military was completely unprepared for what happened on 9/11. The FAA was not able to track the hijacked jets - the first thing they did was turn the transponders off. This is how the FAA tracked airliners and plane flights, and without it there was a lot of guesswork. They were unable to guide the military to the flights. And even if they were, what exactly did we expect them to do? Start shooting down airliners?
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Actually, the FAA had radar contact with the flights, just not the more detailed transponder information. I think it was NEADS who couldn't pin point radar info on their monocromatic displays...
But you say on one hand that they were over-staffed and doubly ready because of the exercises on one hand, and then that that were "completely unprepared" for events they had previously drilled for... so which is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard
I don't know what the US Air Force has on standby at any given time. However, I would imagine prior to 9/11 those would be looking for an external threat, not tracking and attacking airliners over NYC.
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Fair enough, but when notified (and let's include the Air National Guard and other agencies that were notified and quite vigilant when Payne Stewart went off course) they are usually there. Where were they four times on 9/11?
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Originally Posted by Rochard
There really isn't any such thing as "too many chefs" when it comes to the US Military. There is a highly defined chain of command, and everyone knows that chain of command all the way up to the very top. Your making it sound like they were overwelmed that day before the attacks, when the truth is they were over staffed for training and they were instantly able to drop the training and move to the real life problems.
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What you say sounds reasonable, but doesn't follow 9/11 Commission testimony.
Despite this highly defined chain of command, or perhaps because of it?, military response that day (and lack of availability of head contacts, absence and such, etc...) was null.
And nobody has responded or asked about Cheney changing the chain of command before 9/11...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the military here - they were caught with their pants down. It blows my mind that at any given time on the eastern seaboard there was only a handful of jets able to scramble. But again, this goes back to the entire civilian / military issue - generally speaking, civilian authorities don't call on the military for support in emergencies.
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Being "caught with their pants down" goes against their prior training and specific exercises, though... and the fact that they were in the FAA chain of notification makes them responsible for reacting to reports of errant aircraft, etc...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard
Your line of logic is very similar to the "so called truth movement". In this case, your implying that the US Military was having an unusual amount of drills that day when the truth is it's very normal. (In fact, one such drill is being conducted today in NYC with their Office Of Emergency Management.)
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I mean to imply that while NORAD's particular exercises don't seem out of place that day, their occurrence at the same time as so many other drills, spontaneous, pre-scheduled and rescheduled, contributes to an environment of confusion that day that goes against proclaimed uber-readiness...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard
Yes, I do realize this, but your taking things out of proportion here.
With flight 11, the first indication of a problem was at 8:15am when the plane failed to acknowledge a request and it crashed into a tower at 8:46am. That's about half an hour, not an hour and a half.
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Between the first notification of a problem and the last crash an hour and a half or more later (and how could they know there weren't more at this point?), they should have been increasingly aware and ready - but weren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard
Do you see what you did there? You made it sound like these planes were running around unsupervised for an hour and a half, when the truth is one fight was hijacked for half an hour before crashing and the second flight was hijacked for ten minutes before crashing.
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And two other hijacked planes were flying around for another hour...