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Originally Posted by Rochard
So your assuming that everyone who heard noises in the basement was aware of what was happening one hundred floors above them.
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No I am not - I'm not assuming, just repeating )or paraphrasing, if you're gonna nitpick) what some reported or testified beyond vague notions or impressions. They are quite specific.
And I am in fact assuming they did not know what was going on up above, because it wasn't going on yet when they felt what came from below. They wouldn't have reported explosions from below before the fireball/s struck - if indeed fireballs made it that far down, which is disputed - they were aware of two booms or explosive events - first, one below, then one above.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
I think just the opposite. I think in the main lobby - which was huge - a fireball came down and shit was falling from the sky.
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What you think and what is established or corroborated are different things; since the "fireballs" are suspect as to source, then what you think is not an argument but an opinion based on conjecture.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
They might have heard an impact, but they might not have known where it came from. I would have imagined the noise would have been huge but then again your taking about a very large building that is completely sealed off, floor by floor, with lots of sound proofing.
Maybe they thought it was from the basement, when it was really from an elevator shaft that lead to the impact floors?
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Maybe conjecture can lead to disclosure but it ain't fact. The people who were in the basement itself, to begin with, had very clear memories and weren't near any mayhem - the closer to the ground floor they were, the more particular and detailed their stories. Some are very specific, some are vague. I'm not referring to the latter.
The lobby also didn't suffer fireball-burn type damage, but concussive damage, as though a bomb had gone off nearby. Huge marble plates were knocked off the walls.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
"belt like detonations" sounds like floors slamming into each other. Or god only knows what exploding.
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That description comes from someone outside the building/s, and I like the phrase. I may have condensed the actual words. Floors didn't slam into each other at ten floors per second with the two towers - pancaking was discredited by independent sources including FEMA before NIST actually stated as much.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
This is a perfect example of saying "This must have been detonations" when it could have been anything.
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In some cases this can be considered, as many people haven't heard explosions before in their lives. However firemen and other professionals of the type are much more reliable.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
Keep in mind that that by the time the towers fell, there was huge uncontrolled fires on multiple floors in multiple buildings exploding god only knows what. Your talking about a huge building that has massive fireballs running through it.
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IF there were actual fireballs somehow ventilating down or backdrafting as far as the lobby and the basements - which has been described as unlikely - they weren't ongoing. They would have happened a few seconds after impact. The fires in the towers were relatively isolated. Things didn't explode.
The "uncontrolled fires" which actually ran out of fuel fairly shortly based on the video could not have caused any explosions, unless it was overheated glass water coolers. The only possibility was the server farm UPS batteries on one or two floors... which wouldn't have bounced people up from the basement minutes and seconds before the plane impacts.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
Why couldn't have the bottom three quarters to two-thirds of the two towers not have been compromised enough? Fireballs of jet fuel exploding at different levels where the sky lobbies were, setting everything on fire....
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Simply based on steel skyscraper construction, the estimated maximum temperatures of the fires, the source of the fuel, the fact that the buildings were made to withstand impacts from eariler-model, heavier airframes, the fact that the building had burned longer in an earlier incident without structural compromise, the thicker base construction and girder mass, all the givens indicate fires from airline fuel and office supplies won't melt or even begin to soften steel for a global, symmetrical collapse.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
And again you mention molten steel... Why does anything think there wouldn't be molten steel? Your talking about underground fires that were so hot they were mapped out by airplanes - that burned uncontrolled for weeks. Just seems like common sense you would have molten steel.
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Because liquefied and aerosolized iron and steel cannot be produced outside of foundries or environments where the metals are exposed to temperatures approximately 4 times higher than what was determined on 9/11 for periods of three to six hours.
The buildings came down in less than an hour, after having slight fires consume their carpets and couches.
:D