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Bill8 · 03-05-2012, 05:44 PM

The republicans have gotten trapped in the moral and logical outcomes of their own rhetorical success.

Read some Jonathan Haidt, regarding manichean thinking.

The polarization is destroying both parties from the inside out, each with their own variation of the same moral and logical problem.

Here's some, its got the Moyers spin but Haidts ideas are pretty well presented.

http://billmoyers.com/episode/how-do...see-the-world/

http://billmoyers.com/wp-content/the....php?post=3100

BILL MOYERS: And that's because of the Baby Boomers, and-

JONATHAN HAIDT: Well, the Baby Boomers, I think, are more prone to Manichaean thinking.

BILL MOYERS: Manichaean thinking. Good and evil.

JONATHAN HAIDT: That's right. Manichaeus was a, I think, third century Persian prophet, who preached that the world is a battleground between the forces of light, and the forces of darkness. And everybody has to take a side. And some people have sided with good, and of course, we all believe that we've sided with good. But that means that the other people have sided with evil.

And when it gets so that your opponents are not just people you disagree with, but when it gets to the mental state in which I am fighting for good, and you are fighting for evil, it's very difficult to compromise. Compromise becomes a dirty word.

BILL MOYERS: Let me play you an exchange between House Speaker John Boehner and Lesley Stahl on ?60 Minutes.? Take a look at this.

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: We have to govern, that?s what we were elected to do.

LESLEY STAHL: But governing means compromising.

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: It means working together.

LESLEY STAHL: It also means compromising.

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: It means finding common ground.

LESLEY STAHL: Ok, is that compromising?

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: Let me be clear I am not going to compromise on my principles, nor am I going to compromise the will of the American people.

LESLEY STAHL: You?re saying ?I want common ground but I?m not going to compromise.? I don?t understand that, I really don?t.

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: When you say the word compromise, a lot of Americans look up and go, ?oh, oh, they?re going to sell me out.? And so finding common ground, I think, makes more sense.

LESLEY STAHL: I reminded him that his goal had been to get all the Bush tax cuts made permanent. So you did compromise.

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: We found common ground.

LESLEY STAHL: Why won?t you say-- you?re afraid of the word!

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: I reject the word.
BILL MOYERS: He could barely say the word compromise.

JONATHAN HAIDT: That's right, that?s right. Because once you've crossed over from normal political disagreement into Manichaean good versus evil, to compromise, I mean, we say, you know, his ethics were compromised, you don't compromise with evil. Now, I think it's especially an issue for Republicans because they are better at doing, sort of, tribal team based loyalties. The data we have at yourmorals.org shows that conservatives score much higher on this foundation of loyalty, groupishness. And the Republican, I mean, which job would you rather have in Congress? The Republican whip or the Democratic whip? You know?

BILL MOYERS: Right.

JONATHAN HAIDT: The Republicans can hang together better. And part of it is, they're better at drawing bright lines and saying, ?I will not go over this line.?

03-05-2012, 05:44 PM
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	The republicans have gotten trapped in the moral and logical outcomes of their own rhetorical success. Read some Jonathan Haidt, regarding manichean thinking. The polarization is destroying both parties from the inside out, each with their own variation of the same moral and logical problem. Here's some, its got the Moyers spin but Haidts ideas are pretty well presented. http://billmoyers.com/episode/how-do...see-the-world/ http://billmoyers.com/wp-content/the....php?post=3100 BILL MOYERS: And that's because of the Baby Boomers, and- JONATHAN HAIDT: Well, the Baby Boomers, I think, are more prone to Manichaean thinking. BILL MOYERS: Manichaean thinking. Good and evil. JONATHAN HAIDT: That's right. Manichaeus was a, I think, third century Persian prophet, who preached that the world is a battleground between the forces of light, and the forces of darkness. And everybody has to take a side. And some people have sided with good, and of course, we all believe that we've sided with good. But that means that the other people have sided with evil. And when it gets so that your opponents are not just people you disagree with, but when it gets to the mental state in which I am fighting for good, and you are fighting for evil, it's very difficult to compromise. Compromise becomes a dirty word. BILL MOYERS: Let me play you an exchange between House Speaker John Boehner and Lesley Stahl on ?60 Minutes.? Take a look at this. REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: We have to govern, that?s what we were elected to do. LESLEY STAHL: But governing means compromising. REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: It means working together. LESLEY STAHL: It also means compromising. REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: It means finding common ground. LESLEY STAHL: Ok, is that compromising? REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: Let me be clear I am not going to compromise on my principles, nor am I going to compromise the will of the American people. LESLEY STAHL: You?re saying ?I want common ground but I?m not going to compromise.? I don?t understand that, I really don?t. REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: When you say the word compromise, a lot of Americans look up and go, ?oh, oh, they?re going to sell me out.? And so finding common ground, I think, makes more sense. LESLEY STAHL: I reminded him that his goal had been to get all the Bush tax cuts made permanent. So you did compromise. REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: We found common ground. LESLEY STAHL: Why won?t you say-- you?re afraid of the word! REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: I reject the word. BILL MOYERS: He could barely say the word compromise. JONATHAN HAIDT: That's right, that?s right. Because once you've crossed over from normal political disagreement into Manichaean good versus evil, to compromise, I mean, we say, you know, his ethics were compromised, you don't compromise with evil. Now, I think it's especially an issue for Republicans because they are better at doing, sort of, tribal team based loyalties. The data we have at yourmorals.org shows that conservatives score much higher on this foundation of loyalty, groupishness. And the Republican, I mean, which job would you rather have in Congress? The Republican whip or the Democratic whip? You know? BILL MOYERS: Right. JONATHAN HAIDT: The Republicans can hang together better. And part of it is, they're better at drawing bright lines and saying, ?I will not go over this line.?