US Debt now equal to Total US Economy.

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 3
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 template Next
  • Vendzilla
    Biker Gnome
    • Mar 2004
    • 23200
    #101
    Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
    Hey, you have a tendency when you're backed into a corner to ignore the point and focus on something completely arbitrary to the subject.



    So let's try this for the third and last time. My point, he disrespected the president by pointing his finger at him. NOT the content of his questions.
    And exactly how did he do that? I gave a quote form MSNBC, the most liberal news outlet and thats the worse thing they could say about the interview, besides they are just pissed that no one gives a shit about what they have to say and they constantly whine about Fox, thats the worse they could say and thats the same thing he asked the Bush, if you're going to go one and one about his tactics, well he's the number one news comentator in the US, I think he knows his job
    Again, you've completely missed the point. Nobody knows the true figure on how many in the republican elected base think he's a Muslim or was not born in this country. The fact is there is enough who do that continue to bring it up years after he's been in office.
    I really don't give a rats ass about his religion, the country has a 9% unemployment rate, people are falling off the 99 week rate, thats going to lower the rate, yet you actually think people give a shit about his religion?
    Honestly I have nothing personal against you because we don't know each other. BUT people with your political ideology piss me off. Meaning, if you don't get YOUR views addressed you will grovel on minor things that manufacture to larger conspiracy of hate. Meaning, I sure would have hated to be a kid in your house who accidentally spilled the milk.
    My political ideology is balance, hell I cheered for Perot, not for the man, but I saw that as an end to the two party system, as far as kids, my daughter is one of the most balanced people you could ever meet, she's such a happy soul that in the Navy, she kept getting in trouble for whistling on watch and they drug tested her a lot because they thought she was high. She's a free spirit, just like her dad

    Originally posted by tony286
    "An estimated 3 million unauthorized immigrants received amnesty under Reagan's program."
    if barry did that they would be calling for his head. All this he is destroying the country bullshit. The market is over 12,000 , companies are flush with cash. The middle class isnt needed anymore. They got to get the people all jazzed up like they are on your side. They arent, you are not needed anymore. There is no right and left just corporatists and the sheep they manipulate.
    That's because it didn't work, to repeat what doesn't work is kinda stupid isn't it?
    Sort of like the budget, we can't cut entitlements and when the economy takes a dump, Barry wants to add to the entitlements, kinda fucking stupid don't you think?

    The middle class is in trouble because of that lame shit called NAFTA, the unions said this would happen, but no one listened
    Last edited by Vendzilla; 02-15-2011, 09:53 AM.
    Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
    think about that

      Comment

      • Paul Markham
        Too old to care
        • Jun 2001
        • 52942
        #102
        Originally posted by scuba steve
        if you don't live in this country paul why do you have such an invested interest in it? you always are quick to criticize, i take it you were that unhappy which is why you left to czech republic anyway? still its like you left, so you have nothing left to do with it. but you love telling others how bad it is
        I rely on the US for sales. The country that sends the most sign ups to my customers and the country where my customers live, is my concern.

        But this problem isn't just in the US it's in the West in general.



        Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
        PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

          Comment

          • chaze
            Confirmed User
            • Aug 2002
            • 9774
            #103
            I'm starting to believe every economy is a sham and the biggest country is the one that can lie the best.
            Like the desert needs the rain
            We do fully manged WordPress, VPS, and Servers. Adult Host Pro https://adulthostpro.com/ Since 2001

              Comment

              • tony286
                lurker
                • Aug 2002
                • 57021
                #104
                David Brooks speaks about this is his column today.

                http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/op...ml?ref=opinion

                Jared lives a much more intellectually diverse life than Sam. He loves Facebook, YouTube, Wikipedia and his iPhone apps. But many of these things are produced outside the conventional monetized economy. Most of the products are produced by people working for free. They cost nothing to consume.

                They don?t even create many jobs. As Cowen notes in his book, the automobile industry produced millions of jobs, but Facebook employs about 2,000, Twitter 300 and eBay about 17,000. It takes only 14,000 employees to make and sell iPods, but that device also eliminates jobs for those people who make and distribute CDs, potentially leading to net job losses.

                In other words, as Cowen makes clear, many of this era?s technological breakthroughs produce enormous happiness gains, but surprisingly little additional economic activity.

                  Comment

                  • Vendzilla
                    Biker Gnome
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 23200
                    #105
                    Originally posted by tony286
                    David Brooks speaks about this is his column today.

                    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/op...ml?ref=opinion

                    Jared lives a much more intellectually diverse life than Sam. He loves Facebook, YouTube, Wikipedia and his iPhone apps. But many of these things are produced outside the conventional monetized economy. Most of the products are produced by people working for free. They cost nothing to consume.

                    They don?t even create many jobs. As Cowen notes in his book, the automobile industry produced millions of jobs, but Facebook employs about 2,000, Twitter 300 and eBay about 17,000. It takes only 14,000 employees to make and sell iPods, but that device also eliminates jobs for those people who make and distribute CDs, potentially leading to net job losses.

                    In other words, as Cowen makes clear, many of this era?s technological breakthroughs produce enormous happiness gains, but surprisingly little additional economic activity.
                    get rid of NAFTA and a lot of those jobs that went overseas will come back. More foreign companies will open factories here in this country. Obama is so concerned about tradeing products that he doesn't see it would better if they produced and consumed in this country. Even Hilary during her run for president said that NAFTA needs some work.
                    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=atUKcP4eSEvY
                    Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                    think about that

                      Comment

                      • nation-x
                        Confirmed User
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 5370
                        #106
                        rabble rabble rabble

                          Comment

                          • arock10
                            Confirmed User
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 6217
                            #107
                            Poor republicans crack me up
                            Sup

                              Comment

                              • wig
                                Confirmed User
                                • Feb 2002
                                • 708
                                #108
                                Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                get rid of NAFTA and a lot of those jobs that went overseas will come back. More foreign companies will open factories here in this country. Obama is so concerned about tradeing products that he doesn't see it would better if they produced and consumed in this country. Even Hilary during her run for president said that NAFTA needs some work.
                                http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=atUKcP4eSEvY
                                The price of goods bought isn?t disconnected from wages. Essentially, Americans make too much money to sustain their current standard of living making these items. To bring those jobs back into the US you would need to either pay wages equivalent of what they do in other developing countries or suffer a general decrease in the US standard of living as prices increased to pay for higher wages.

                                The US is moving away from these industries because they do not produce enough wealth to keep up with US GDP. To get GDP per capita close to that of the US -- China for example -- would also have to transition its economy away from these industries.

                                Also, The U.S. still produces and exports a lot of goods. In 2009, for example, the U.S. exported a total of $1.057 trillion worth of goods. 6.6% of that dollar total was to China, which puts it third on the list of countries buying American goods. Canada was #1 with 19.4% of the total; Mexico was second at 12.2%.
                                Credit Card and ACH Processing

                                  Comment

                                  • mynameisjim
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Aug 2007
                                    • 2985
                                    #109
                                    Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                    Dude, I was making fun of you, I thought you would see that, you stated that it was the top .01%, when it's the top 1% that they are arguing about, BIG difference!
                                    You made fun of yourself by missing my entire point. If you read my first post I was talking about the .01% controlling the debate in the media. Not the amount of taxes that the .01% pays. Just because someone makes $500K a year doesn't mean they have any control over the debate in this country even though their interests may be in line with those that do. You need hundreds of millions, if not billions to be in that special club and it's a very small club, not nearly 1% of the population.
                                    Last edited by mynameisjim; 02-15-2011, 12:09 PM.
                                    jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs Convert

                                      Comment

                                      • Vendzilla
                                        Biker Gnome
                                        • Mar 2004
                                        • 23200
                                        #110
                                        Originally posted by wig
                                        The price of goods bought isn?t disconnected from wages. Essentially, Americans make too much money to sustain their current standard of living making these items. To bring those jobs back into the US you would need to either pay wages equivalent of what they do in other developing countries or suffer a general decrease in the US standard of living as prices increased to pay for higher wages.

                                        The US is moving away from these industries because they do not produce enough wealth to keep up with US GDP. To get GDP per capita close to that of the US -- China for example -- would also have to transition its economy away from these industries.

                                        Also, The U.S. still produces and exports a lot of goods. In 2009, for example, the U.S. exported a total of $1.057 trillion worth of goods. 6.6% of that dollar total was to China, which puts it third on the list of countries buying American goods. Canada was #1 with 19.4% of the total; Mexico was second at 12.2%.
                                        Wait, this is funny, they assemble Dodge trucks in Mexico, you think they don't produce enough wealth?
                                        Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                        think about that

                                          Comment

                                          • Vendzilla
                                            Biker Gnome
                                            • Mar 2004
                                            • 23200
                                            #111
                                            Originally posted by mynameisjim
                                            You made fun of yourself by missing my entire point. If you read my first post I was talking about the .01% controlling the debate in the media. Not the amount of taxes that the .01% pays. Just because someone makes $500K a year doesn't mean they have any control over the debate in this country even though their interests may be in line with those that do. You need hundreds of millions, if not billions to be in that special club and it's a very small club, not nearly 1% of the population.
                                            People making over $500k DO have control over the debate in this country, ever hear of MONEY BEING PAID TO POLITICIANS?

                                            And you're not paying attention to current events, you're just not getting it, it's the top 1%, not .01% they want to raise taxes on. Where the fuck are you getting these numbers? Out of your ass?
                                            They want to raise the taxes on persons and couples that earn over $250k

                                            Under Obama?s plan, in 2013 the top rate on ordinary income would rise from 35% to 39.6% while the top rate on dividends and long term capital gains would go from 15% to 20%.

                                            I'm not making fun of myself, but keep it up and it will be easy to make fun of you!
                                            Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                            think about that

                                              Comment

                                              • wig
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Feb 2002
                                                • 708
                                                #112
                                                Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                Wait, this is funny, they assemble Dodge trucks in Mexico, you think they don't produce enough wealth?
                                                The per capita GDP of Mexico is 1/3 the USA.
                                                Credit Card and ACH Processing

                                                  Comment

                                                  • wig
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Feb 2002
                                                    • 708
                                                    #113
                                                    Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                    Wait, this is funny, they assemble Dodge trucks in Mexico, you think they don't produce enough wealth?
                                                    And China per capita GDP is 1/7 the USA.

                                                    The only thing that's funny is that you have no idea what I wrote.

                                                    Reading your posts, your whole analysis is colored by your political ideology. Just like a religious person, you start with a conclusion and then back fill your explanations and supporting arguments.

                                                    For the same reason it's almost impossible to use reasoned arguments or explanations with them, I don't think it will work with you.
                                                    Credit Card and ACH Processing

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Paul Markham
                                                        Too old to care
                                                        • Jun 2001
                                                        • 52942
                                                        #114
                                                        Trying to solve 21st Century problems with 20th Century solutions isn't going to work.

                                                        It would be nice if they did, but they won't.



                                                        Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                        PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                                                          Comment

                                                          • mynameisjim
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Aug 2007
                                                            • 2985
                                                            #115
                                                            Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                            People making over $500k DO have control over the debate in this country, ever hear of MONEY BEING PAID TO POLITICIANS?

                                                            And you're not paying attention to current events, you're just not getting it, it's the top 1%, not .01% they want to raise taxes on. Where the fuck are you getting these numbers? Out of your ass?
                                                            They want to raise the taxes on persons and couples that earn over $250k

                                                            Under Obama?s plan, in 2013 the top rate on ordinary income would rise from 35% to 39.6% while the top rate on dividends and long term capital gains would go from 15% to 20%.

                                                            I'm not making fun of myself, but keep it up and it will be easy to make fun of you!
                                                            I'm making a totally different argument than the one you are seeing. I guess you are unable to understand it and just want to see a simple numbers game. I have twice said that I am not talking about the top wage earners who are going to get taxed, I already explained that the cut off is $250K and I'm fully aware of that. Should I explain that a third time for you?

                                                            I'm talking about a very small number of elite Americans who are able to steer the debate in a direction that servs their interests. If you want to believe that the debate this country is having on taxes and the debt is both honest and transparent, then I guess there is no point in arguing with you anymore.
                                                            jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs Convert

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Martin
                                                                "Assassins"
                                                                • Dec 2001
                                                                • 17274
                                                                #116
                                                                America is being destroyed to bring in the One World Government.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Vendzilla
                                                                    Biker Gnome
                                                                    • Mar 2004
                                                                    • 23200
                                                                    #117
                                                                    Originally posted by wig
                                                                    And China per capita GDP is 1/7 the USA.

                                                                    The only thing that's funny is that you have no idea what I wrote.

                                                                    Reading your posts, your whole analysis is colored by your political ideology. Just like a religious person, you start with a conclusion and then back fill your explanations and supporting arguments.

                                                                    For the same reason it's almost impossible to use reasoned arguments or explanations with them, I don't think it will work with you.
                                                                    An explaination that makes sence always works for me, you just don;t make sence, you stated that

                                                                    The price of goods bought isn?t disconnected from wages. Essentially, Americans make too much money to sustain their current standard of living making these items. To bring those jobs back into the US you would need to either pay wages equivalent of what they do in other developing countries or suffer a general decrease in the US standard of living as prices increased to pay for higher wages.

                                                                    The US is moving away from these industries because they do not produce enough wealth to keep up with US GDP. To get GDP per capita close to that of the US -- China for example -- would also have to transition its economy away from these industries.
                                                                    I said you didn't take in account that Mexico is assembling Dodge trucks, that was in reference to you stating that the US is moving away from these industries, if you got rid of NAFTA, that would change!

                                                                    But you argue that I'm wrong and only offer some shit stained idea that my debating skillset is not one you can argue with, WTF? I guess facts is something you can't deal with it, so be it!
                                                                    Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                    think about that

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Vendzilla
                                                                        Biker Gnome
                                                                        • Mar 2004
                                                                        • 23200
                                                                        #118
                                                                        Originally posted by mynameisjim
                                                                        I'm making a totally different argument than the one you are seeing. I guess you are unable to understand it and just want to see a simple numbers game. I have twice said that I am not talking about the top wage earners who are going to get taxed, I already explained that the cut off is $250K and I'm fully aware of that. Should I explain that a third time for you?

                                                                        I'm talking about a very small number of elite Americans who are able to steer the debate in a direction that servs their interests. If you want to believe that the debate this country is having on taxes and the debt is both honest and transparent, then I guess there is no point in arguing with you anymore.
                                                                        What are you retarded?

                                                                        Did you not understand the words I am typing?
                                                                        People making over $500k DO have control over the debate in this country, ever hear of MONEY BEING PAID TO POLITICIANS?
                                                                        Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                        think about that

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • mynameisjim
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Aug 2007
                                                                            • 2985
                                                                            #119
                                                                            Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                                            People making over $500k DO have control over the debate in this country, ever hear of MONEY BEING PAID TO POLITICIANS?
                                                                            Are you really this naive? The number of wealthy Democrats who make contributions to progressive groups and the number of wealthy Republicans who make contributions to conservative groups pretty much cancels out. So that leaves a very, very small number at the top who can actually control the debate one way or the other.

                                                                            Second, the debate is set, then money is raised based on that debate. That's how contributions work. Money isn't raised by political groups then the group asks the donors which topics are most important to them..lol. For example, about a decade ago, the hot debate for Republicans was 'family values" so they would try to set the debate in this country about wedge issues like gay marriage and abortion. They then would raise money based on that debate despite the fact that abortion and gay rights, while important issues, should in no way be at the forefront of national politics.

                                                                            You raise money based on the debate you set, not to determine the debate.

                                                                            My point once again is this, a very small number of Americans want to keep hundreds of millions of dollars for themselves if taxes are kept low for the super wealthy. That small number of elite Americans at the top have controlled the debate in such a way that they have convinced poor and middle income Americans to side with them, despite it not being in their best interest. That's MY WHOLE POINT. This discussion on taxes and the debt is not even close to being honest.

                                                                            My use of the number ".01%" was to show that a very small yet powerful group have hijacked the tax/debt debate and are using it for their own gain. There may be people lower on the totem pole who have something to gain by aligning with the super rich, but at the most that is an additional 5% of the population. So even with those numbers, 5% of the population benefits from tax cuts, and it was the number one issue in America being debated. Do those numbers seem democratic to you?
                                                                            Last edited by mynameisjim; 02-15-2011, 02:04 PM.
                                                                            jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs Convert

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • wig
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Feb 2002
                                                                                • 708
                                                                                #120
                                                                                Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                                                An explaination that makes sence always works for me, you just don;t make sence, you stated that



                                                                                I said you didn't take in account that Mexico is assembling Dodge trucks, that was in reference to you stating that the US is moving away from these industries, if you got rid of NAFTA, that would change!

                                                                                But you argue that I'm wrong and only offer some shit stained idea that my debating skillset is not one you can argue with, WTF? I guess facts is something you can't deal with it, so be it!
                                                                                Easy, tiger. What I wrote may not make sense to you, but that's your problem.

                                                                                What part about per capita GDP do you not understand and why do you assume I don't take into account assembly of trucks in Mexico?

                                                                                But you argue that I'm wrong and only offer some shit stained idea that my debating skillset is not one you can argue with, WTF? I guess facts is something you can't deal with it, so be it!
                                                                                That's one way to put it I suppose. LOL

                                                                                Here's what my shit stained idea meant in example... look how you had to frame it around Obama?

                                                                                Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                                                Obama is so concerned about tradeing products that he doesn't see it would better if they produced and consumed in this country. Even Hilary during her run for president said that NAFTA needs some work.
                                                                                Now, I gave you the facts why this is specious. Whether you understood them or not is another matter.

                                                                                Not to mention, the article you posted merely illustrates political posturing by Hillary Clinton and lobbying by labor unions.

                                                                                More specifically, a politician who was ramping up for an election while pitted against her own economic advisors?

                                                                                The idea was rejected by Altman and Rubin as detrimental to the American economy at a forum in Washington last year.
                                                                                Credit Card and ACH Processing

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Vendzilla
                                                                                    Biker Gnome
                                                                                    • Mar 2004
                                                                                    • 23200
                                                                                    #121
                                                                                    Originally posted by wig
                                                                                    Easy, tiger. What I wrote may not make sense to you, but that's your problem.

                                                                                    What part about per capita GDP do you not understand and why do you assume I don't take into account assembly of trucks in Mexico?
                                                                                    Where did I comment on the GDP? I didn't, thats where you lost it

                                                                                    That's one way to put it I suppose. LOL
                                                                                    Here's what my shit stained idea meant in example... look how you had to frame it around Obama?



                                                                                    Now, I gave you the facts why this is specious. Whether you understood them or not is another matter.

                                                                                    Not to mention, the article you posted merely illustrates political posturing by Hillary Clinton and lobbying by labor unions.

                                                                                    More specifically, a politician who was ramping up for an election while pitted against her own economic advisors?
                                                                                    You can always find someone online to prove your point, but I never heard of Altman and Rubin, what are their stakes in over seas markets?
                                                                                    Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                                    think about that

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Vendzilla
                                                                                        Biker Gnome
                                                                                        • Mar 2004
                                                                                        • 23200
                                                                                        #122
                                                                                        Originally posted by mynameisjim
                                                                                        Are you really this naive? The number of wealthy Democrats who make contributions to progressive groups and the number of wealthy Republicans who make contributions to conservative groups pretty much cancels out. So that leaves a very, very small number at the top who can actually control the debate one way or the other.

                                                                                        Damn man, you're like into beating your head in the wall?

                                                                                        I should slow down ,Maybe I should slow down to a pace you can understand and do this one line at a time, now you're adding more Variables that weren't in the original post. But hey, when you don't have anything?

                                                                                        So answer this about what you have written above, if they cancel each other out, why is Obama not happy with the supreme courts decision on campaign finance?
                                                                                        Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                                        think about that

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • wig
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Feb 2002
                                                                                            • 708
                                                                                            #123
                                                                                            Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                                                            Where did I comment on the GDP? I didn't, thats where you lost it
                                                                                            Lost what? Of course you did not comment on PER CAPITA GDP (not GDP), I introduced that. It was to explain why your below contention is misguided and superficial
                                                                                            get rid of NAFTA and a lot of those jobs that went overseas will come back. More foreign companies will open factories here in this country.
                                                                                            Your statement is a non-sequitur.

                                                                                            You can always find someone online to prove your point, but I never heard of Altman and Rubin, what are their stakes in over seas markets?
                                                                                            Damn, dude. Robert Rubin or Roger Altman?

                                                                                            They are the economists that Hillary had as economic advisers who were quoted in the article YOU posted as stating that her idea of placing a "moratorium on trade agreements -- which would be used to beef up labor and environmental protections and provide more aid for domestic workers displaced by foreign competition" would:

                                                                                            be detrimental to the American economy
                                                                                            Now, I know you already slipped in the canard about their stakes in overseas markets, so I'm sure you'll be quick to try and dismiss these gentlemen as evil jewish bankers.

                                                                                            Beat your strawmen all you want, but you'd be better served with an economics 101 book.
                                                                                            Credit Card and ACH Processing

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • The Demon
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Apr 2003
                                                                                                • 7336
                                                                                                #124
                                                                                                This isn't a shock. When you constantly have the fed playing around with low interest rates and runaway spending, as well as a moron for a fed chairman, this is bound to happen. I definitely enjoy the morons who blame it on the private sector.
                                                                                                Greed is Good

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • tony286
                                                                                                    lurker
                                                                                                    • Aug 2002
                                                                                                    • 57021
                                                                                                    #125
                                                                                                    Originally posted by wig
                                                                                                    The price of goods bought isn?t disconnected from wages. Essentially, Americans make too much money to sustain their current standard of living making these items. To bring those jobs back into the US you would need to either pay wages equivalent of what they do in other developing countries or suffer a general decrease in the US standard of living as prices increased to pay for higher wages.

                                                                                                    The US is moving away from these industries because they do not produce enough wealth to keep up with US GDP. To get GDP per capita close to that of the US -- China for example -- would also have to transition its economy away from these industries.

                                                                                                    Also, The U.S. still produces and exports a lot of goods. In 2009, for example, the U.S. exported a total of $1.057 trillion worth of goods. 6.6% of that dollar total was to China, which puts it third on the list of countries buying American goods. Canada was #1 with 19.4% of the total; Mexico was second at 12.2%.
                                                                                                    I have to agree with Vend, omg the world is going to end now. lol Back in the day the avg ceo made 30 to 40x what the avg worker made, now they make 500x. To pay themselves that much money it has to come from somewhere.
                                                                                                    I was watching a show on frontline about Walmart. Walmart used to make 20 percent on products made in the usa. With them pushing their vendors to produce in china they now make 60 to 80 percent profit. Mac used to be made in America and now made in china they havent become cheaper.A iphone costs $600 to buy without a contract, the workers that build them make 30 cents an hour. That's how their net income jumped 70 percent to 14 billion.
                                                                                                    The corps make the big contributions.So its never never going to change.It started with Reagan and its gotten worse and worse. Wages have been flat for yrs and if it wasn't for cheap credit the middle class would realize how bad they have been truly getting fucked in the ass.
                                                                                                    Both sides keep feeding the little people the bullshit so they think they are on their side and they are not. Probably the only guy on the peoples side is Bernie Sanders the rest are full of shit.

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • wig
                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                        • Feb 2002
                                                                                                        • 708
                                                                                                        #126
                                                                                                        Originally posted by The Demon
                                                                                                        This isn't a shock. When you constantly have the fed playing around with low interest rates and runaway spending, as well as a moron for a fed chairman, this is bound to happen. I definitely enjoy the morons who blame it on the private sector.
                                                                                                        Of course government and monetary policy makers have culpability. Whether its Glass Steagall or pushing Fannie Mae to get involved in more and more questionable mortgage loans or keeping the monetary gas pedal down along the way or embarking on deficit spending. All very arguable points for mistakes.

                                                                                                        Of course, this goes back decades and involved both political parties and prior monetary leaders.

                                                                                                        But I don?t see how you can call Bernanke a moron. I realize you don?t agree with Fed policy or perhaps even its? existence, but without his [FED] action we would have had a total collapse. If you listen to him, he didn?t even like what he felt the FED had to do, but it was the lesser of two evils in his opinion.

                                                                                                        I think you recognize that we were on the verge of a global economic deflation / depression and I can only assume you would have been okay with allowing that outcome.

                                                                                                        But finally, the private sector has to shoulder its part of the responsibility. No one made people ?keep up with the Jones?? by leveraging themselves into oblivion. I didn?t do it. The private sector deserves its share of the blame (although I'm not sure who in this thread is solely blaming them).
                                                                                                        Credit Card and ACH Processing

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • mynameisjim
                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                            • Aug 2007
                                                                                                            • 2985
                                                                                                            #127
                                                                                                            Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                                                                            So answer this about what you have written above, if they cancel each other out, why is Obama not happy with the supreme courts decision on campaign finance?
                                                                                                            This may be hard for you to understand, but an honest person can say something is unfair even if they may benefit from it. For example, if they passed a law that said white people can no longer be given speeding tickets, that would be nice for me, but I could still speak out on it and say it's not fair. Progressive organizations can exploit the new supreme court ruling as well, but that doesn't make it correct.

                                                                                                            Believe it or not, some people can still put their own motivations aside for a moment and fight for what is right.

                                                                                                            Obama (and many others) are angry about the Supreme Court decision because it says that corporations and individuals are equal, even though it's pretty common sense to see that a corporation can exert a much greater influence than an individual can in most cases. Also, being able to hide where money is coming from is harmful to an open and honest democracy. I'm not sure how hiding the source of political contributions is seen as a positive step towards transparency.
                                                                                                            Last edited by mynameisjim; 02-15-2011, 03:40 PM.
                                                                                                            jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs Convert

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • wig
                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                • Feb 2002
                                                                                                                • 708
                                                                                                                #128
                                                                                                                Originally posted by tony286
                                                                                                                I have to agree with Vend, omg the world is going to end now. lol Back in the day the avg ceo made 30 to 40x what the avg worker made, now they make 500x. To pay themselves that much money it has to come from somewhere.
                                                                                                                I was watching a show on frontline about Walmart. Walmart used to make 20 percent on products made in the usa. With them pushing their vendors to produce in china they now make 60 to 80 percent profit. Mac used to be made in America and now made in china they havent become cheaper.A iphone costs $600 to buy without a contract, the workers that build them make 30 cents an hour. That's how their net income jumped 70 percent to 14 billion.
                                                                                                                The corps make the big contributions.So its never never going to change.It started with Reagan and its gotten worse and worse. Wages have been flat for yrs and if it wasn't for cheap credit the middle class would realize how bad they have been truly getting fucked in the ass.
                                                                                                                Both sides keep feeding the little people the bullshit so they think they are on their side and they are not. Probably the only guy on the peoples side is Bernie Sanders the rest are full of shit.
                                                                                                                Tony, you are making a value judgment, not an economic one. You may be right or you may be wrong in the big picture as to what is best, but I think it is debatable.

                                                                                                                Moreover, I'm not saying what is right or wrong per se, I'm just giving the economics of it. I was arguing to Vendzilla why I think his thinking doesn't make economic sense and why his conclusions don't follow.

                                                                                                                As far as the little guy goes, well if they invest like an idiot they'll lose money. My advice is don't spend what you don't have, don't invest like an idiot, don't stand in front of a moving train. Free-trade is a moving train. The world economy does not have training wheels.
                                                                                                                Credit Card and ACH Processing

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • $5 submissions
                                                                                                                    I help you SUCCEED
                                                                                                                    • Nov 2003
                                                                                                                    • 32189
                                                                                                                    #129
                                                                                                                    Not totally unexpected considering the rise of the ENTITLEMENT STATE.

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • tony286
                                                                                                                        lurker
                                                                                                                        • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                        • 57021
                                                                                                                        #130
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by wig
                                                                                                                        Tony, you are making a value judgment, not an economic one. You may be right or you may be wrong in the big picture as to what is best, but I think it is debatable.

                                                                                                                        Moreover, I'm not saying what is right or wrong per se, I'm just giving the economics of it. I was arguing to Vendzilla why I think his thinking doesn't make economic sense and why his conclusions don't follow.

                                                                                                                        As far as the little guy goes, well if they invest like an idiot they'll lose money. My advice is don't spend what you don't have, don't invest like an idiot, don't stand in front of a moving train. Free-trade is a moving train. The world economy does not have training wheels.
                                                                                                                        How about when the little guy is busting his ass and he gets laid off in his 50's because if the job is done overseas and the ceo gets a huge bonus?That guy is fucked, burns thru his savings ,his 401k no one wants to hire someone in his 50's.So he loses his house it kills his credit. Yep its all his fault, they got you buying the bullshit line.People that worked harder than you can imagine are getting fucked and losing it all. My father worked for a large healthcare company they were shipping jobs overseas by the boat loads. This was during the bush boom years and then the chairman took a 500 million dollar bonus.
                                                                                                                        Its economic not a value judgement.

                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • directfiesta
                                                                                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                            • 30151
                                                                                                                            #131
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                                                                                            An explaination that makes sence always works for me, you just don;t make sence, you stated that
                                                                                                                            twice ... wouldn't it be sense .... ???
                                                                                                                            I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                                                                                                            But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                              • tony286
                                                                                                                                lurker
                                                                                                                                • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                • 57021
                                                                                                                                #132
                                                                                                                                Originally posted by $5 submissions
                                                                                                                                Not totally unexpected considering the rise of the ENTITLEMENT STATE.
                                                                                                                                What entitlement state? You try and live on $250 a week of unemployment. Read history before social security becoming old was sentence of starvation for 60 percent of the elderly.
                                                                                                                                Like this internet? It was government tax dollars that paid for creation of the internet. IT was the GI bill that helped create the middle class. Before that there was poor and rich and not much in the middle. The way its going back to. lol
                                                                                                                                Germany now has low unemployment because of government intervention
                                                                                                                                http://blogs.ft.com/gavyndavies/2010...-jobs-miracle/

                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                  • Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                    Biker Gnome
                                                                                                                                    • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                    • 23200
                                                                                                                                    #133
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by tony286
                                                                                                                                    How about when the little guy is busting his ass and he gets laid off in his 50's because if the job is done overseas and the ceo gets a huge bonus?That guy is fucked, burns thru his savings ,his 401k no one wants to hire someone in his 50's.So he loses his house it kills his credit. Yep its all his fault, they got you buying the bullshit line.People that worked harder than you can imagine are getting fucked and losing it all. My father worked for a large healthcare company they were shipping jobs overseas by the boat loads. This was during the bush boom years and then the chairman took a 500 million dollar bonus.
                                                                                                                                    Its economic not a value judgement.
                                                                                                                                    We use to have tariffs in this country that helped keep jobs in the US, we have been sold out by those that think a world market is better, guess it's working really good for those that can ship others jobs overseas

                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by directfiesta
                                                                                                                                    twice ... wouldn't it be sense .... ???
                                                                                                                                    As usual, the only thing you can add to a conversation is grammar, I bet that really works good with the ladies
                                                                                                                                    Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                                                                                    think about that

                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                      • tony286
                                                                                                                                        lurker
                                                                                                                                        • Aug 2002
                                                                                                                                        • 57021
                                                                                                                                        #134
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                        We use to have tariffs in this country that helped keep jobs in the US, we have been sold out by those that think a world market is better, guess it's working really good for those that can ship others jobs overseas



                                                                                                                                        As usual, the only thing you can add to a conversation is grammar, I bet that really works good with the ladies
                                                                                                                                        I agree you with, Im going to now get hit by lightning or something. lol

                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                          • Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                            Biker Gnome
                                                                                                                                            • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                            • 23200
                                                                                                                                            #135
                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by tony286
                                                                                                                                            What entitlement state? You try and live on $250 a week of unemployment. Read history before social security becoming old was sentence of starvation for 60 percent of the elderly.
                                                                                                                                            Like this internet? It was government tax dollars that paid for creation of the internet. IT was the GI bill that helped create the middle class. Before that there was poor and rich and not much in the middle. The way its going back to. lol
                                                                                                                                            Germany now has low unemployment because of government intervention
                                                                                                                                            http://blogs.ft.com/gavyndavies/2010...-jobs-miracle/
                                                                                                                                            I have no problems with entitlements, but if we can't afford more with the budget we have, then we can't expand them.
                                                                                                                                            The internet was developed by the Government, but it grew because of porn and social networks.
                                                                                                                                            GI bill had a lot to do with the middle class, I bought my first house with a Vet loan, but I also think the union had a lot to do with it as well, the unions just kinda over did it.
                                                                                                                                            I don't read much about other countries, but isn't it Germany thats bailing out the other euro countries? At this rate, the germans will own europe, didn't they try that before? LOL
                                                                                                                                            Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                                                                                            think about that

                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                              • Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                                Biker Gnome
                                                                                                                                                • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                                • 23200
                                                                                                                                                #136
                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by tony286
                                                                                                                                                I agree you with, Im going to now get hit by lightning or something. lol
                                                                                                                                                Tony, I think if we got together, we would have a blast, get drunk and wake up 3 states over with a room full of hookers!
                                                                                                                                                Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                                                                                                think about that

                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                  • Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                                    Biker Gnome
                                                                                                                                                    • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                                    • 23200
                                                                                                                                                    #137
                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by wig
                                                                                                                                                    Lost what? Of course you did not comment on PER CAPITA GDP (not GDP), I introduced that. It was to explain why your below contention is misguided and superficial
                                                                                                                                                    But GDP is NOT what I commented on in your statement
                                                                                                                                                    Your statement is a non-sequitur.
                                                                                                                                                    It makes perfect sense, level the playing field and business that left to save money will no longer be saving that money
                                                                                                                                                    Damn, dude. Robert Rubin or Roger Altman?

                                                                                                                                                    They are the economists that Hillary had as economic advisers who were quoted in the article YOU posted as stating that her idea of placing a "moratorium on trade agreements -- which would be used to beef up labor and environmental protections and provide more aid for domestic workers displaced by foreign competition" would:
                                                                                                                                                    OK, forgive me for not knowing the names of the the Secretary of States Economic advisers, considering they still don;t know where they got all there money when Bill was making 35k a year as a governor

                                                                                                                                                    Now, I know you already slipped in the canard about their stakes in overseas markets, so I'm sure you'll be quick to try and dismiss these gentlemen as evil jewish bankers.

                                                                                                                                                    Beat your strawmen all you want, but you'd be better served with an economics 101 book.
                                                                                                                                                    I flew in a canard once, over the desert just east of LA, is that what you're talking about? It was built in my buddies garage and scared the hell out of me, I went back the next weekend and did it again!
                                                                                                                                                    Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                                                                                                    think about that

                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                      • wig
                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                        • Feb 2002
                                                                                                                                                        • 708
                                                                                                                                                        #138
                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by tony286
                                                                                                                                                        How about when the little guy is busting his ass and he gets laid off in his 50's because if the job is done overseas and the ceo gets a huge bonus?That guy is fucked, burns thru his savings ,his 401k no one wants to hire someone in his 50's.So he loses his house it kills his credit. Yep its all his fault, they got you buying the bullshit line.People that worked harder than you can imagine are getting fucked and losing it all. My father worked for a large healthcare company they were shipping jobs overseas by the boat loads. This was during the bush boom years and then the chairman took a 500 million dollar bonus.
                                                                                                                                                        Its economic not a value judgement.
                                                                                                                                                        Don't get me wrong. I'm in support of a much stronger safety net -- in terms of better triggers on unemployment assistance, wage insurance, health care, foreclosure insurance, etc.

                                                                                                                                                        I'm in favor of putting money into research and development and science, and in programs that will increase education and skills.

                                                                                                                                                        We just don't have a way of stopping globalization and free-trade. It going to happen whether we have trade agreements or not. I'm just saying it's an economic reality.

                                                                                                                                                        I'm also not blaming the people who did it right. I acknowledge the problems you are describing. That's why I am in favor of the things I listed above, as well as a progressive tax system. I don't even mind paying a few % more and I don't even live in the USA anymore.

                                                                                                                                                        I just strongly disagree with V's contention that we could reverse free-trade and thus solve these problems.

                                                                                                                                                        And at the same time, I'm not prepared to refrain from chastising those who are "fucked" who did not do it all right, who made stupid decisions, but still want to blame the boogieman of free-trade.
                                                                                                                                                        Credit Card and ACH Processing

                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                          • directfiesta
                                                                                                                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                                            • 30151
                                                                                                                                                            #139
                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Vendzilla



                                                                                                                                                            As usual, the only thing you can add to a conversation is grammar, I bet that really works good with the ladies


                                                                                                                                                            Probably, but it is not grammar , but spelling ....
                                                                                                                                                            I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                                                                                                                                            But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                              • Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                                                Biker Gnome
                                                                                                                                                                • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                                                • 23200
                                                                                                                                                                #140
                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by directfiesta


                                                                                                                                                                Probably, but it is not grammar , but spelling ....
                                                                                                                                                                Passed spell checker, so you're a spelling nazi?
                                                                                                                                                                Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                                                                                                                think about that

                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                  • Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                                                    Biker Gnome
                                                                                                                                                                    • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                                                    • 23200
                                                                                                                                                                    #141
                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by wig
                                                                                                                                                                    Don't get me wrong. I'm in support of a much stronger safety net -- in terms of better triggers on unemployment assistance, wage insurance, health care, foreclosure insurance, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                    I'm in favor of putting money into research and development and science, and in programs that will increase education and skills.

                                                                                                                                                                    We just don't have a way of stopping globalization and free-trade. It going to happen whether we have trade agreements or not. I'm just saying it's an economic reality.

                                                                                                                                                                    I'm also not blaming the people who did it right. I acknowledge the problems you are describing. That's why I am in favor of the things I listed above, as well as a progressive tax system. I don't even mind paying a few % more and I don't even live in the USA anymore.

                                                                                                                                                                    I just strongly disagree with V's contention that we could reverse free-trade and thus solve these problems.

                                                                                                                                                                    And at the same time, I'm not prepared to refrain from chastising those who are "fucked" who did not do it all right, who made stupid decisions, but still want to blame the boogieman of free-trade.
                                                                                                                                                                    You are under the misconception that there is truly free trade, when a country manipulates it's currency to give itself a trade advantage like china, that can't happen, so you add tariffs, and why can't we go back to that, would it hurt your feelings?
                                                                                                                                                                    All that we do is dissolve NAFTA and start over.......
                                                                                                                                                                    Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
                                                                                                                                                                    think about that

                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                      • wig
                                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                        • Feb 2002
                                                                                                                                                                        • 708
                                                                                                                                                                        #142
                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Vendzilla
                                                                                                                                                                        You are under the misconception that there is truly free trade, when a country manipulates it's currency to give itself a trade advantage like china, that can't happen, so you add tariffs, and why can't we go back to that, would it hurt your feelings?
                                                                                                                                                                        All that we do is dissolve NAFTA and start over.......
                                                                                                                                                                        I think we should enforce our trade agreements. I think that currency manipulation is a problem -- especially with the asian countries / china. I think that working towards correcting this is good for the USA and should be pursued further.

                                                                                                                                                                        So no, it would not hurt my feelings to address these issues and I don't believe I am under any misconception here.

                                                                                                                                                                        However, I believe you are under the misconception that free trade and globalization is a bad thing in general, and that by eliminating NAFTA (or other trade agreements) it will solve the problems you are concerned about.
                                                                                                                                                                        Credit Card and ACH Processing

                                                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                                                          • wig
                                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                            • Feb 2002
                                                                                                                                                                            • 708
                                                                                                                                                                            #143
                                                                                                                                                                            I'm off for the night. Perhaps there is more to discuss, but it will have to be tomorrow. :-)
                                                                                                                                                                            Credit Card and ACH Processing

                                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                                              • Emil
                                                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                • Feb 2007
                                                                                                                                                                                • 5655
                                                                                                                                                                                #144
                                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                                For those screaming for cuts. Imagine what taking that much money out of the US economy will do to the country.

                                                                                                                                                                                It will send a lot of you bankrupt. People with not a lot of money buy porn, those with lots of money buy escorts.
                                                                                                                                                                                Of course it will be a hard time for the USA if they cut the budget really hard but if they just continue on the same path as they do now and keep borrowing money from the rest of the world and print more money out of thin air the budget cuts would be nothing compared to what's coming.

                                                                                                                                                                                But lots of people say that it wont matter if they cut the budget or not, they wont make it anyway.
                                                                                                                                                                                China, Russia and other countries have already talked about replacing the USD with Euro as the reserve currency. The dollar is losing value all the time, they just keep printing it and Americans got this stuff in their saving-accounts. It will be worthless in a couple of years!

                                                                                                                                                                                Why do you think gold and silver prices keeps rising like crazy?
                                                                                                                                                                                Because companies, banks and people are getting rid of the dollar buying something "stable", something that cant just lose it's value like the dollar might do.

                                                                                                                                                                                I dont think they care too much about selling porn memberships when they might not even be able to buy food, what do you think?

                                                                                                                                                                                Gold price


                                                                                                                                                                                Silver price


                                                                                                                                                                                US Debt



                                                                                                                                                                                But just stay calm, nothing will happen. The rest of the world will continue to accept worthless paper in exchange for products.
                                                                                                                                                                                Last edited by Emil; 04-25-2011, 09:32 AM.
                                                                                                                                                                                Free 🅑🅘🅣🅒🅞🅘🅝🅢 Every Hour (Yes, really. Free ₿itCoins.)
                                                                                                                                                                                (Signup with ONLY your Email and Password. You can also refer people and get even more.)

                                                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                  Previous 1 2 3 template Next
                                                                                                                                                                                  Working...