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Originally Posted by kane
You yourself said that if a company refused to license the songs it was censorship. I didn't say that, you did. You said, "this is about using copyright to censor free speach by refusing to licience the content at any price."
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do you see any economic loss declarations like the ones you made up in your counter arguement
NO
so in this case
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"this is about using copyright to censor free speach by refusing to licience the content at any price."
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Sorry dude, that isn't the case. A copyright holder has the right to just say no to someone and they can choose to not license their music to someone. If they choose to do this, it doesn't mean that person now gets to use it anyway.
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that exactly what fair use allows you to do.
when copyright is used as a censorship/monopoly extention instead of protect income of the content that exactly what fair use has done every single time
sony didn't get permission from universal
diamond rio did not get permission from the RIAA.
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Again, you are grasping at straws. If I am sending traffic to a sponsor and they use some magic formula you sell them to redesign the site and get better sign-up ratios they can't just suddenly say that they now own my traffic and aren't going to pay for it. This has nothing to do with copyright.
If they changed the marketing materials they provided me with they can and will copyright those materials. Again, this doesn't give them the right to just take my traffic and not pay for it, remember, they gave me the materials to market their site. I have their permission. In essence we have an agreement. I send traffic, if people buy a membership I get a commission for that sale. Fair use has nothing to do with it. If they decide to stop paying for my traffic for any reason, I will take it to a competitor and so will everyone else that they do that to. The market and competition protects me, not fair use.
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i will say it again
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i can't use my copyright to claim your income, if copyright worked the way you said it did, i could simply say i don't want you to use my copyrighted material and i could sue you for sending traffic to those superior tours.
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if i could simply deny you the use of my copyright material for any reason i wanted then i want you to prove you believe what you believe is just as good a reason as any other.
your right if you wanted to send traffic to inferior tours, or other sponsors you could.
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I agreed to disagree with you because you think everything is fair use and I feel that the creators of content should be allowed to control how their content is used/distributed regardless of any economic impact. That is what I agree to disagree with you about. This has nothing to do with your magic formulas and "hypothetically" creating some system that makes it okay for a company just to take my traffic and not pay for it.
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but that exactly the point if i don't want you to gain an advantage from my IP i should have a right to take away the income you make from using that IP without my permission.
Even if there is no economic impact to that banning.
if you sent traffic to a tour using my IP without my permission you would be infringing on my copyright
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BTW if fair use protects me can you please notify, Ibill, Girls Gone Wild and Quickbuck and let them know that fair use forbids them from just deciding to screw over affiliates and not pay them. I'm sure once you point out to them that they are in violation of fair use agreements they will quickly cut checks to everyone that is owed money.
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that the stupidest statement you have made, just because fair use prevents me from banning you for non economic impact reasons, doesn't mean that a program can screw you for another reason.
this is one specific case, where you want to profit from my copyrighted work (and licienced derivation) and my ability to stop you even though i can't show economic damage from that selective economic censorship.
You argued i should have the right. If you truly believed i have that right anyway, you should have a problem agreeing to give me that right.
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It was made pretty clear that he would build the site, handle the billing and run the site and provide you with anything you would need.
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exactly what i agreed to,
if maintaining the tracker, submitting the torrents, sending out the letter, and any other grunt work necessary was what i need he would do it.
when i said
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i can show you the changes necessary and then walk away from it.
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he responded with
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You would need to produce 100ish sales a day, if you feel you can change a few things and walk away, then sweet...
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he said produce not personally send 100 sales
if i teach him something new and that technique generates an average of 20 sales a day, i produced 20 sales a day even if he did all the work of maintaining it because without that tutoring those sales would not have happened.
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Your job would be to send traffic that would create at least 100 joins per day. Basically, you would be an affiliate, but you would be the only affiliate. It is a chance to show all of us who laugh at you that you really know what you are doing. To show us all that you are right and we are all wrong.
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and that what he tried to reclassify it as after i sent him the document spelling out exactly what the deal was.
he claimed he never recieved it. now i know why.
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Let's do the math: You get to 100 sales per day and let's say you agree upon a 50% split with Doc paying for the processing fees. So on $29.95 per month membership you would get $14.98 per sale, recurring each moth that person rebilled. That is $44,980 per month. Assume the second month that only 30% rebill. That means in month 2 you make your $44,980 plus $14,980 in rebills for $59,960. You keep that up for a full year and you are making 719K for the year and that is being conservative and assuming most people only stay a members for 1 month.
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ok so after working like a dog for a year i get 719k i put that in the bank at 10% that translates into $71,900 a year forever.
i just taught 30 people, even with all of the upfront fees going event and support cost (renting room, support site , etc) my profits is about 5k per year per student. or 150k per year forever. it only takes me a week to teach these guys (5 days actually)
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You are telling me your time isn't worth a paltry 719K? Hell, if you really can do this I would bet you could find a dozen companies willing to cut you a deal and pay you $35-40 per signup. That's 105-120K per month. If you really can do what you say, I'm sure there are plenty of companies out there that would offer you this. But your time isn't worth 1.2million per year?
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now lets talk upside, first of all i would be competing with myself in that situation, so it would get harder and harder with each new site.
second the number of students i teach is getting larger each time, so even with 2+ months of prep time between classes the total number of residual incomes is growing quickly.
IF i can get enough students so that the size is statistically accurate (1500 min) and the average income levels are stable then i can prove we can produce results superior to signing with a record company. when that happens i will be teaching in front of class in the 100s
even if that increased competition cause our average to drop to say $3200 (what our fee would be for an average recording artist) that still a shit load more money then i would earn proving my point to you.
add the fact that stuff i am showing these guys will work for tv shows, and those licience out in the 2-3 million an episode mark. and the maximum upside is conservatively 100 millions not just 1-2 million.
now if the deal was what i agreed to orginally it worth the risk, i could show doc the 5 things that i talked about in a week, 719k/ year for a weeks work is worth my time that worth doing even if it cost me a weeks worth of training.
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I think we all know the truth here. You can send some traffic and you might get some sales, but in the end you know it will do nothing remotely close to these numbers and you don't want everyone on this board knowing it. We all realize that torrent traffic is made up almost entirely of freeloaders who don't want to pay for anything any will argue until their blue in the face about it being their right not to pay. Getting people to download and share your movies and getting them to buy your product are two different things.
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offer still stands as originally agreed to, only thing holding it up is docs attempt to redefine it as something else.