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Originally Posted by Pleasurepays
I agree with this completely. I don't object to the idea of injecting cash into the system in some form. I object to the notion that its a slam dunk and "the only right thing to do". I don't think thats fair to the people who are going to have to pay for it, to not be fully aware of the risks. I think the entire country was done a tremendous disservice considering the manner in which this was done.
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I agree 100%
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but recessions happen. it will happen no matter what. it would have happened no matter what. faster economic growth will result in a bigger contraction. rebounding will happen no matter what. Just as we are seeing signs of improvement right now, without the effect of the stimulus package. So you can argue that it will "crash and burn" - but you can't argue that recovery isn't inevitable.
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Again this is true. Recessions always happen and typically the larger the growth period the bigger the recession. I also agree that recovery will eventually happen, but my question is how long will it take and what will be the cost of it? Will it happen fast and rebound strongly, quickly or will it take 10 years and have millions lose everything they have in the wake?
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i'm a very pragmatic person. I look at this situation and see a nation full of retards who pull out a credit card and borrow money from a bank to buy a Pepsi. I see a nation full of people who are in debt. who are over extended. who are in homes they can't afford and driving cars they have no right to drive. i see a banking system that adapted quite well to making horrible loans and selling them to investors. i see mortgage companies that had no problems whatsoever lying on loan aps (i could tell you stories you wouldn't believe)... i see a system that failed completely from top to bottom. from consumers to lenders to investors.
my view is that crashing and burning makes everything stronger in the end. everyone learns the lessons. everyone resets. everyone realizes how retarded they are acting, realizes there are consequences to being stupid and making poor financial decisions. my view is that pumping the system and these companies and tax payers full of money, blaming bush and doing it at the expense of those who acted responsibly, is a horrible message to send... and its a message that will only serve to hasten the next great financial collapse.
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I have said for a long time that the number one problem this country has in entitlement. People feel they are entitled to everything. They think that if they want a big house they "deserve" it. They think if they want an expensive car they should have it. I know people who make a nice living and they spend every penny they make and are actually over their limit in credit. They have bills they only pay every other month because they have more going out each month than coming in. A friend of mine asked me to sit down with he and his wife and help them with a budget ( I like finance stuff so my friends are always asking me questions). He makes around 80K a year and has two kids so they should be doing pretty well. He has no savings. Every dime that comes in goes out. So we make a list of every expense they have and he is spending $165 a month on cable TV and another $70 a month on internet access. They have 8 different credit cards all maxed out and when I asked what they had bought with them the only thing that they could remember was their big screen TV. So out of around 15K in credit card debt they spent $1500 on a TV and can't even remember where the rest went. They spend about $200 a month on cell phones.
I cut and slashed and they said they would think about it, but I don't think they will do anything about it because they feel entitled to 300 channels of TV and the fastest internet access you can get and they like having the top of the line cell phone plan so they can surf the web on their phone and send a million texts a month if they want (even though they hardly ever use those features). They like being able to tell people that is what they have and they like putting on the facade of someone living well when in reality they are teetering on bankruptcy.
So I can really understand where you are coming from. My worry is that regardless of how this situation gets solved we won't learn our lesson. People are watching their money right now, but in a few years if all is good again they will go right back to spending as they were before. What bothers me the most is that if things just crashed and burned and there were no stimulus package at all millions would suffer who had nothing to do with causing the problem. I understand that part of living in this country, or any capitalist type of economy, is that there is a risk that you will lose what you have. I just pisses me off that I watch my money closely and live well below my means and in the end I may suffer because of the actions of some other jackasses. It pisses me off that good people may suffer badly from this and those that caused it may not even learn their lesson.